Layout Your Offseason Plan

[Pimlach]

On 5/10/2023 at 6:38 PM, dudacek said:

Why shouldn’t the Sabres play Mittelstadt and Cozens together next year?

They made some nice plays when they were together.

Put a rejuvenated Greenway with them for matchup purposes and you might be looking at a very good 2nd line.

Krebs between Girgs and Okposo (or veteran upgrades) on a checking line.

Savoie slides in between Jack and JJ to fill the Vanek/Roy/Max 2006 role feasting on 3rd-pairings.

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

I might like it, you have to see them play to know, but some of the opponents 3rd pairings may do some feasting too.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by Pimlach

[Flashsabre]

This is now the second person to say they have heard the Sabres have interest in Hellebuyck. From the Athletic's Michael Russo:

“he becomes available, don’t be surprised if Buffalo and New Jersey take big swings.

One thing we’ve heard early this offseason is that the Sabres have interest in Hellebuyck, with the belief that a genuine No. 1 goaltender could be the last remaining piece in turning them into contenders. Getting one would also allow them to hold off on turning the reins over to Devon Levi until he’s proven to be NHL-ready.

The Jets would want young team-controlled assets in exchange, and the Sabres have plenty of those — from a youngish goaltender in Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen to promising talents like Peyton Krebs and even Casey Mittelstadt.”

[Cheektorado]

Losing Anderson, KO, Girgs, Hinostroza and as crazy as it sounds VO, leaves Skinner (30) and Lyubushkin (29) as the old, grizzled vets on the team.  I can't see HCDG going for that.  At least 1 of KO/Girgs is going to stay next season IMO.  KO does seem to be trending down but 1 more year won't kill the team.  On the other hand, I can live with Girgs on a moderately overpaid one- or two-year contract.  I'm willing to bet Girgs would go for that. 

I agree that talent wise letting both go and replacing them with some of the options mentioned seems like a good idea, but I have to think the locker room leadership has to be taken into consideration.  KO was the captain and Girgs was an alternate.

So, the way I see it is, IF KO wants to stay, Girgs is gone.  If KO knows Girgs will stay and continue as a leader if he retires, I think KO may hang them up.

There is a lot of young players on this team who look up to these 2 guys.

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

This is now the second person to say they have heard the Sabres have interest in Hellebuyck. From the Athletic's Michael Russo:

“he becomes available, don’t be surprised if Buffalo and New Jersey take big swings.

One thing we’ve heard early this offseason is that the Sabres have interest in Hellebuyck, with the belief that a genuine No. 1 goaltender could be the last remaining piece in turning them into contenders. Getting one would also allow them to hold off on turning the reins over to Devon Levi until he’s proven to be NHL-ready.

The Jets would want young team-controlled assets in exchange, and the Sabres have plenty of those — from a youngish goaltender in Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen to promising talents like Peyton Krebs and even Casey Mittelstadt.”

According to their fans, Krebs and Mittelstadt are below the minimum the team would want.  You are probably talking 2023 1st, Rousek, and something else if he comes with an extension.  On the other hand, they might take Olofsson to keep the team quasi-competitive.

The other thing that works against a potential deal is how long would Helleybuck want an extension for?  He could probably get top dollar for a lot of years if he finds the right spot.  I can't see the Sabres giving him that.

[Crusader1969]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

According to their fans, Krebs and Mittelstadt are below the minimum the team would want.  You are probably talking 2023 1st, Rousek, and something else if he comes with an extension.  On the other hand, they might take Olofsson to keep the team quasi-competitive.

The other thing that works against a potential deal is how long would Helleybuck want an extension for?  He could probably get top dollar for a lot of years if he finds the right spot.  I can't see the Sabres giving him that.

I don't  mind brining in Helleybuyck but it can't be too much of an overpayment for 1 year. I would be open to a 2024 lottery protected 1st but not the 13th overall pick in a loaded draft.  Shame he doesn't have 2 or 3 years on the contract.

 

 

 

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

This is now the second person to say they have heard the Sabres have interest in Hellebuyck. From the Athletic's Michael Russo:

“he becomes available, don’t be surprised if Buffalo and New Jersey take big swings.

One thing we’ve heard early this offseason is that the Sabres have interest in Hellebuyck, with the belief that a genuine No. 1 goaltender could be the last remaining piece in turning them into contenders. Getting one would also allow them to hold off on turning the reins over to Devon Levi until he’s proven to be NHL-ready.

The Jets would want young team-controlled assets in exchange, and the Sabres have plenty of those — from a youngish goaltender in Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen to promising talents like Peyton Krebs and even Casey Mittelstadt.”

Russo is well connected so you never know.

Sabres would be good in net with a Hellebuyck-Levi tandem. Helle would block Levi but be a great mentor. Helle is used to playing 60+ games If Levi eventually takes over then that is a testament to his skill. Helle then becomes the savvy vet or gets moved for cap relief.

Winnipeg would want a lot but how much do you give up for one year of Hellebuyck? Sign and trade is a different matter.

I think UPL would go, Krebs played junior in Winnipeg so they might want him. A draft pick would be something else to add.

[thewookie1]

Interestingly enough one of the analytics guys on Twitter said the Sabres were rumored to have wanted Swayman in the Hall trade originally. But Hall’s unwillingness to play ball and his mediocre at best season killed that. 
 

If that is true, it definitely changes how we think Adams views goaltending to a degree. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

To acquire Helle wouldn’t make sense without an extension, but would go against his stated goal of not blocking a prospects.  Levi is KA’s guy.  

If Helle he 2-3 years left on his deal, I’d be all for acquiring him and we’d have our Ullmark/Swayman type tandem, but without cost certainty and more than one season guaranteed I wouldn’t make the deal.

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

To acquire Helle wouldn’t make sense without an extension, but would go against his stated goal of not blocking a prospects.  Levi is KA’s guy.  

If Helle he 2-3 years left on his deal, I’d be all for acquiring him and we’d have our Ullmark/Swayman type tandem, but without cost certainty and more than one season guaranteed I wouldn’t make the deal.

Relying on Levi in his first full season at his age to shoulder 50+ games is being disingenuous about wanting to end the playoff drought, respectfully.

If what was rumored about Adam's looking for a goalie is true, Hellebyuck if available should be a prime target imho. 

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Relying on Levi in his first full season at his age to shoulder 50+ games is being disingenuous about wanting to end the playoff drought, respectfully.

If what was rumored about Adam's looking for a goalie is true, Hellebyuck if available should be a prime target imho. 

If Levi comes into camp and wins the starting job, why would it be disingenuous regarding the franchise's hopes about the playoffs? What would be the cost in assets to acquire Hellebyuck? I would think that it would cost a first round pick and a primary prospect, such as Kulich and Savoie. And it wouldn't make much sense unless you were willing to give him an extension. I don't see that happening with Levi in the system. 

[FrenchConnection44]

We definitely need a veteran goalie to carry a heavy load and let Levi progress and not be overworked or over pressured. a 1A and Levi as 1B could take a lot of pressure off his shoulders and free him to push hard and improve and build confidence. I’m not for giving up a ton. 
 

But if the Sabres (Adams) thinks we are just one top tier goalie away from being bonafide Cup contenders I would question that. I think there are a couple of other pieces for sure. A top 4 defenseman would help a lot. And replacing the forwards likely to leave with a solid two way forward would be very helpful, imo. 
 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

If Levi comes into camp and wins the starting job, why would it be disingenuous regarding the franchise's hopes about the playoffs? What would be the cost in assets to acquire Hellebyuck? I would think that it would cost a first round pick and a primary prospect, such as Kulich and Savoie. And it wouldn't make much sense unless you were willing to give him an extension. I don't see that happening with Levi in the system. 

History shows #1's getting traded because the team is rebuilding and the guy only has 1 year left before becoming an UFA come cheaper than those that are under contract for a longer term.  So the price tag will be less than Saros would cost, but yeah 13 overall and either a young player or a top prospect is the likely price.  And if you can re-sign him to a mNMC contract it's probably worth it though giving away Kulich or Savoie would be painful.

[Flashsabre]

27 minutes ago, Taro T said:

History shows #1's getting traded because the team is rebuilding and the guy only has 1 year left before becoming an UFA come cheaper than those that are under contract for a longer term.  So the price tag will be less than Saros would cost, but yeah 13 overall and either a young player or a top prospect is the likely price.  And if you can re-sign him to a mNMC contract it's probably worth it though giving away Kulich or Savoie would be painful.

It will not cost Kulich or Savoie for one year of Hellebuyck. 

 Bringing inHellebuyck for a year would be a great developmental move for the franchise. The development for Levi for the season would be tremendous. Being around Hellebuyck everyday, seeing how he practices, prepares to be consistently good would be huge.

A year of Hellebuyck/Levi as a tandem would help this team develop into a playoff contender.

Hellebuyck+Demelo for #13+UPL+Joker

Gives you the best tandem in the league plus a solid rhd for Power

Sign a solid 3rd pairing LHD to play with Boosh.

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

If Levi comes into camp and wins the starting job, why would it be disingenuous regarding the franchise's hopes about the playoffs? What would be the cost in assets to acquire Hellebyuck? I would think that it would cost a first round pick and a primary prospect, such as Kulich and Savoie. And it wouldn't make much sense unless you were willing to give him an extension. I don't see that happening with Levi in the system. 

1 yr of Hellebyuck price aside for a moment, focusing on Levi. My opinion differs based on known league precedents on netminders of his age and performance in the entirety of a season and its outcome. There is sound reasoning as to why most netminders do not take the reigns until 24 or older. For example, Miller was 25, Hasek was actually 26 just turning 27. And while I admit there are those that have done so, I submit they are fee because they are the exception. 12 going on 13 seasons, at some point risk mitigation comes in to play, as the brand has been decimated by the past 10 year catastrophe, imho. There's no reason to put all of the eggs in Levi's basket if options are available bolster his game load more in line with the norm, again, imho.

[GASabresIUFAN]

57 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

There is sound reasoning as to why most netminders do not take the reigns until 24 or older.

I'm not sure that's accurate.  Miller's start in Buffalo was delayed because of the lockout.  Hasek was traded because Belfour already had the net in Chicago.

Recently, Vasi was the starter in TB at 22, Oettinger in Dallas at 23, Hellebuyck in Wpg at 23. Hart made the jump at 20 and Skinner in Edm is 24.  Many guys like Saros in Nash or even Swayman in Bos are or were ready to be starters but had top-end players like Ullmark and Rinne ahead of them.  When guys are ready they play.  

What we need to be looking for is a veteran goalie who has played in a high-event system, is under 35 and can be counted on to play 40 games or more.  We also need that player to have a minimum of a two-year contract, but I think 3 would be preferable if the contract is affordable.

 

[Scottysabres]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm not sure that's accurate.  Miller's start in Buffalo was delayed because of the lockout.  Hasek was traded because Belfour already had the net in Chicago.

Recently, Vasi was the starter in TB at 22, Oettinger in Dallas at 23, Hellebuyck in Wpg at 23. Hart made the jump at 20 and Skinner in Edm is 24.  Many guys like Saros in Nash or even Swayman in Bos are or were ready to be starters but had top-end players like Ullmark and Rinne ahead of them.  When guys are ready they play.  

What we need to be looking for is a veteran goalie who has played in a high-event system, is under 35 and can be counted on to play 40 games or more.  We also need that player to have a minimum of a two-year contract, but I think 3 would be preferable if the contract is affordable.

 

It's accurate. And so is the menial norm for starting goalie age. I mean honestly, you don't see many 21/22 yr Olds shouldering the season game load. But, I posted my opinion of the Hellebyuck rumor, gave my reasoning behind it. Could be right, could be wrong, it's not the hill I'm going to die on as it pertains to the larger picture of the organization. Defense however, is a different story 😉

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

1 yr of Hellebyuck price aside for a moment, focusing on Levi. My opinion differs based on known league precedents on netminders of his age and performance in the entirety of a season and its outcome. There is sound reasoning as to why most netminders do not take the reigns until 24 or older. For example, Miller was 25, Hasek was actually 26 just turning 27. And while I admit there are those that have done so, I submit they are fee because they are the exception. 12 going on 13 seasons, at some point risk mitigation comes in to play, as the brand has been decimated by the past 10 year catastrophe, imho. There's no reason to put all of the eggs in Levi's basket if options are available bolster his game load more in line with the norm, again, imho.

Not factoring in what Helley's cost will be is ignoring the critical issue about what it would take to acquire him. Are you willing to trade away a high-end prospect, such as Kulich or Savoie, in a package for him? Acquiring him makes little sense if you don't sign him to an extension before the deal is made. How much are you willing to pay him and what would be the term? 

I've said this before and gotten a barrage of scorn: I believe that our GM is going to stick with the trio of goalies that he has on his roster i.e. Levi, UPL and Comrie. I see Levi becoming the primary goalie. Is it a risk? Yes. However, if our blueline is bolstered it will be less of a risk because the netminders will have better support. 

[Scottysabres]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Not factoring in what Helley's cost will be is ignoring the critical issue about what it would take to acquire him. Are you willing to trade away a high-end prospect, such as Kulich or Savoie, in a package for him? Acquiring him makes little sense if you don't sign him to an extension before the deal is made. How much are you willing to pay him and what would be the term? 

I've said this before and gotten a barrage of scorn: I believe that our GM is going to stick with the trio of goalies that he has on his roster i.e. Levi, UPL and Comrie. I see Levi becoming the primary goalie. Is it a risk? Yes. However, if our blueline is bolstered it will be less of a risk because the netminders will have better support. 

Since I don't believe either one of those players would be necessary to acquire 1 yr of Helle in a deal I don't hold the cost to be an over payment situation.

Goalies of his caliber very rarely, if ever, move at the dead line. If the Jets are looking to rebuild as opposed to retooling, they would more than likely move him this off season either at the draft or in to the UFA period. If that is their direction, they hold no leverage over the cost to acquire situation. They either want assets for the future, or they don't, and the Sabres are ripe with assets for the future.

 

Edit: I do concur improving the D takes some pressure off of the netminders.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Scottysabres

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, Taro T said:

History shows #1's getting traded because the team is rebuilding and the guy only has 1 year left before becoming an UFA come cheaper than those that are under contract for a longer term.  So the price tag will be less than Saros would cost, but yeah 13 overall and either a young player or a top prospect is the likely price.  And if you can re-sign him to a mNMC contract it's probably worth it though giving away Kulich or Savoie would be painful.

I'm not giving away Kulich or Savoie in such a trade, especially if you don't have a goalie such as Helly signed to an extension. If the GM was going to trade away its first pick, I would rather see it dealt for a second pairing defenseman. 

Our GM has been very transparent in how he operates. I'm understating the obvious that he is very reluctant to depart with high end prospects such as Savoie and Kulich. When he pursued a Chycrun deal at the trade deadline he was willing to give up a first round pick for him but wouldn't also give up one of those prized prospects. It should be noted that he was willing to pursue a Chycrun deal because it had specific aspects to it. The young defenseman was playing under a reasonable contract that also had term. 

I strongly believe that our GM is going to stick with the trio of goalies that he has in his system i.e., Levi, UPL and Comrie. Is it a risk? Yes. If you want to improve the goaltending, then a backdoor approach to accomplish that might be to bulk up the blueline. 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Since I don't believe either one of those players would be necessary to acquire 1 yr of Helle in a deal I don't hold the cost to be an over payment situation.

Goalies of his caliber very rarely, if ever, move at the dead line. If the Jets are looking to rebuild as opposed to retooling, they would more than likely move him this off season either at the draft or in to the UFA period. If that is their direction, they hold no leverage over the cost to acquire situation. They either want assets for the future, or they don't, and the Sabres are ripe with assets for the future.

 

Edit: I do concur improving the D takes some pressure off of the netminders.

Would you be willing to trade for Helly if you can't get him to sign an extension? I wouldn't. It's just my opinion that I believe that our GM is invested in Levi being his #1 goalie this upcoming season. And again, it is my opinion that the GM is willing to stick with the trio of goalies that he has under contract. We'll just have to wait and see how this unfolds. The focus of my attention this offseason will be on the blueline.

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

And again, it is my opinion that the GM is willing to stick with the trio of goalies that he has under contract.

…and is it your opinion that this is a good strategy by KA?

 

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

…and is it your opinion that this is a good strategy by KA?

 

I have no problem with it. The main driver of improvement is going to come from the young players already on the roster. My main concern is to add talent to the blueline this offseason. That's where my attention will be. The model that we seem to be following is the Jersey Devil formula. That team took a major leap forward because the accumulation of highly drafted players matured as a group. There is no reason why we can't have that same success next season with our young and talented group.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

…and is it your opinion that this is a good strategy by KA?

 

That’s the real question isn’t it.  KA certainly talked up UPL in recent weeks making a Levi/UPL tandem next year a distinct possibility.  

This is a dangerous strategy for a team expecting to make the playoffs next season.  UPL’s numbers and analytics aren’t good and Levi has 7 career starts. UPL also has only 46 career games and the 3rd goalie, Comrie, has 47. 

The Hellebuyck rumor is the first sign that KA is not satisfied with the Levi/UPL/Comrie  grouping for next season and that is the best news of the off-season so far.  I wouldn’t overpay for one season of Hellebuyck, but it’s a clear sign that KA is kicking the tires on good veteran goaltending.

[ddaryl]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I have no problem with it. The main driver of improvement is going to come from the young players already on the roster. My main concern is to add talent to the blueline this offseason. That's where my attention will be. The model that we seem to be following is the Jersey Devil formula. That team took a major leap forward because the accumulation of highly drafted players matured as a group. There is no reason why we can't have that same success next season with our young and talented group.

My issue is Cromrie and UPL.... I would realy rather replace that duo with a Hellebuyck.....  but thats a trade that would cost us a bunch of pieces and not sure KA is thinking this way.

 

But I would be way more excited if we got rid of the non dynamic duo and traded for Hellebuyck and then extend Hellebuyck for a 4- 6 years while Levi earns his 3rd contract... Assuming his 2nd deal will be a a tweener deal

[thewookie1]

14 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

My issue is Cromrie and UPL.... I would realy rather replace that duo with a Hellebuyck.....  but thats a trade that would cost us a bunch of pieces and not sure KA is thinking this way.

 

But I would be way more excited if we got rid of the non dynamic duo and traded for Hellebuyck and then extend Hellebuyck for a 4- 6 years while Levi earns his 3rd contract... Assuming his 2nd deal will be a a tweener deal

4-6 years is a tad overkill. I’m not interested in paying a goalie 7mil +