FrenchConnection44 Posted April 22, 2023 Report Posted April 22, 2023 7 hours ago, Bangarang said: Hiring a private dick to watch our Johnson is a brilliant idea. Things could get sticky. This is the best observation of the thread. Hands down... wherever they wind up. 😉
Eleven Posted April 22, 2023 Report Posted April 22, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, LGR4GM said: @Eleven you're using the term draft strategy wrong. It's like when anyone says tank anymore, no meaning, just a buzzword. I am confident in my command of the English language and also confident that if the team needs to trade a 2023 pick to get a defenseman, then that is part of 2023 draft strategy. What am I missing? Edited April 22, 2023 by Eleven
Taro T Posted April 22, 2023 Report Posted April 22, 2023 8 hours ago, kas23 said: I don’t know. I didn’t speak to any GMs about him. But if a 2nd was available, I would’ve taken it. The comp pick we get back is at the end of the round, so any 2nd would’ve been earlier. There’s also the possibility he could’ve been moved as part of a package for a player. No. This is incorrect. The NHL doesn't work compensatory draft picks like the NFL does. In the NHL, if you lose a 1st round pick (due to death, bailing on the team, the kid deciding he hates hockey, or any other reason), you get the same pick in the 2nd round of the next draft. So if you lost the #1 overall pick, you get pick 33 in the draft and the team that finished DFL will now select pick 34 to start the rest of the 2nd round. If you lost pick 31 in a previous draft, then you get pick 63 (32+31). You don't get the last pick of the 2nd round. You aren't the only person saying this. But it is completely incorrect to say that the Sabres will be getting the last pick of the 2nd round in the draft after Johnson walks. They won't get the 65th pick. They will get the 63rd and 2 picks will be after it in the 2nd round (the picks of the 2 teams that end up in the SCF). Where it would get gray is if more than 1 team lost a pick and will receive compensation in the same draft. Not positive if say a team were to get the 3rd pick as a compensatory pick and another the 5th if that "5th" pick in the 2nd round would actually be the 5th pick (37 overall) or the defacto 6th pick (38 overall) because there'd now be two 3rd picks of the 2nd round and not sure if they consider that 2nd one still the 3rd pick or if it is now considered the 4th pick.
kas23 Posted April 23, 2023 Report Posted April 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Taro T said: No. This is incorrect. The NHL doesn't work compensatory draft picks like the NFL does. In the NHL, if you lose a 1st round pick (due to death, bailing on the team, the kid deciding he hates hockey, or any other reason), you get the same pick in the 2nd round of the next draft. So if you lost the #1 overall pick, you get pick 33 in the draft and the team that finished DFL will now select pick 34 to start the rest of the 2nd round. If you lost pick 31 in a previous draft, then you get pick 63 (32+31). You don't get the last pick of the 2nd round. You aren't the only person saying this. But it is completely incorrect to say that the Sabres will be getting the last pick of the 2nd round in the draft after Johnson walks. They won't get the 65th pick. They will get the 63rd and 2 picks will be after it in the 2nd round (the picks of the 2 teams that end up in the SCF). Where it would get gray is if more than 1 team lost a pick and will receive compensation in the same draft. Not positive if say a team were to get the 3rd pick as a compensatory pick and another the 5th if that "5th" pick in the 2nd round would actually be the 5th pick (37 overall) or the defacto 6th pick (38 overall) because there'd now be two 3rd picks of the 2nd round and not sure if they consider that 2nd one still the 3rd pick or if it is now considered the 4th pick. Oh geez, potato patato. Ok. They are getting the 31st pick (63OA) of the 2nd round instead of the 33rd pick (65OA) in the 2nd. You wrote all that out for no material difference. My point stands. We could’ve traded Johnson for a 2nd rounder before the 31st pick in the 2nd round, but that trade never materialized.
Thorner Posted April 23, 2023 Report Posted April 23, 2023 They may be homophones, and I admittedly love the last jedi, but I have to admit I’m much less a fan of the potential subverting of expectations in *this* particular case. Still hope he ends up signing.
Doohicksie Posted April 23, 2023 Report Posted April 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Eleven said: What am I missing? The Ignore User option. 😉 1
shrader Posted April 23, 2023 Report Posted April 23, 2023 14 hours ago, Taro T said: You aren't the only person saying this. But it is completely incorrect to say that the Sabres will be getting the last pick of the 2nd round in the draft after Johnson walks. They won't get the 65th pick. They will get the 63rd and 2 picks will be after it in the 2nd round (the picks of the 2 teams that end up in the SCF). Where it would get gray is if more than 1 team lost a pick and will receive compensation in the same draft. Not positive if say a team were to get the 3rd pick as a compensatory pick and another the 5th if that "5th" pick in the 2nd round would actually be the 5th pick (37 overall) or the defacto 6th pick (38 overall) because there'd now be two 3rd picks of the 2nd round and not sure if they consider that 2nd one still the 3rd pick or if it is now considered the 4th pick. You want some real fun? Imagine the Sabres lose Johnson (31st pick in 2019) and then the 31st pick of 2021 is a major junior player and also decided not to sign. I’d assume the older pick (2019) would get the pick first and 2021 would get the following pick, but I don’t remember if they actually spell that one out.
Taro T Posted April 23, 2023 Report Posted April 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, shrader said: You want some real fun? Imagine the Sabres lose Johnson (31st pick in 2019) and then the 31st pick of 2021 is a major junior player and also decided not to sign. I’d assume the older pick (2019) would get the pick first and 2021 would get the following pick, but I don’t remember if they actually spell that one out. That one isn't spelled out in the CBA either. Expect your thought is how they'd work it (the team that was waiting on the player longer gets the 1st choice, then the other team, then the team that was actually supposed to get that pick in the current draft), but it's the NHL so who knows.
Buffalonill Posted April 23, 2023 Report Posted April 23, 2023 Hopefully they use the pick in a package for a nice defenseman
Scottysabres Posted May 19, 2023 Report Posted May 19, 2023 So is it a done deal? Is this kid going to FA?
Carmel Corn Posted May 19, 2023 Report Posted May 19, 2023 36 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: So is it a done deal? Is this kid going to FA? IMHO, 99% chance he goes FA. 1% he signs (can he attend prospect camp and make up his mind after that)? 1
inkman Posted May 19, 2023 Report Posted May 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said: IMHO, 99% chance he goes FA. 1% he signs (can he attend prospect camp and make up his mind after that)? Who knows what this kid wants but his easiest path to the NHL is in Buffalo. 1 1
jamiezzz Posted May 20, 2023 Report Posted May 20, 2023 2 hours ago, inkman said: Who knows what this kid wants but his easiest path to the NHL is in Buffalo. Couldn't agree more.
Buffalonill Posted May 20, 2023 Report Posted May 20, 2023 9 hours ago, Scottysabres said: So is it a done deal? Is this kid going to FA? 2 1
Night Train Posted May 20, 2023 Report Posted May 20, 2023 13 hours ago, Scottysabres said: So is it a done deal? Is this kid going to FA? 1 1
Archie Lee Posted May 20, 2023 Report Posted May 20, 2023 The Sabres were able to negotiate a 3rd for Portillo. The Kings I'm sure had reason to think they would get him signed, but there was no compensation for Portillo if he walked to free agency. Maybe the 2nd rd compensation for Johnson means there is still an opportunity to get a 2nd in this year's draft for him. Chicago jumps out as they have four 2nd rd picks this year and with Bedard coming they might want a player who is closer to the NHL than anyone they will get in Rd 2 this year. Incidentally, the Blackhawks have some work to do to get to the cap floor. They also don't have any goal scorers on their current roster. A Johnson/Olofsson deal for a 2nd in 2023 and a later pick in 24 or 25 might make sense for both teams. 1
Pimlach Posted May 20, 2023 Report Posted May 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, Archie Lee said: The Sabres were able to negotiate a 3rd for Portillo. The Kings I'm sure had reason to think they would get him signed, but there was no compensation for Portillo if he walked to free agency. Maybe the 2nd rd compensation for Johnson means there is still an opportunity to get a 2nd in this year's draft for him. Chicago jumps out as they have four 2nd rd picks this year and with Bedard coming they might want a player who is closer to the NHL than anyone they will get in Rd 2 this year. Incidentally, the Blackhawks have some work to do to get to the cap floor. They also don't have any goal scorers on their current roster. A Johnson/Olofsson deal for a 2nd in 2023 and a later pick in 24 or 25 might make sense for both teams. We already get a 2nd next year for Johnson. We can get 2nd for just Olofsson alone, probably more. I would package Olofsson for immediate help on the blue line if possible. 3
Archie Lee Posted May 20, 2023 Report Posted May 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Pimlach said: We already get a 2nd next year for Johnson. We can get 2nd for just Olofsson alone, probably more. I would package Olofsson for immediate help on the blue line if possible. A pick in the 50's in 2023 is worth more than pick 63 or 64 in 2024. I will be pleasantly surprised if we get a 2nd for Olofsson. I don't think we are getting significant blue-line help for him either. I like Olofsson more than most fans, but I don't think his value is very high. 2
JoeSchmoe Posted May 20, 2023 Report Posted May 20, 2023 It'd be good if we could get something back for him ASAP... Especially if it's part of a package for an NHL top 4 defenseman. That said, a 2nd round pick is worth more than what he's worth at this point. If we can't trade him, let him walk if that's what he wants. 1
PerreaultForever Posted May 21, 2023 Report Posted May 21, 2023 15 hours ago, Archie Lee said: The Sabres were able to negotiate a 3rd for Portillo. The Kings I'm sure had reason to think they would get him signed, but there was no compensation for Portillo if he walked to free agency. Maybe the 2nd rd compensation for Johnson means there is still an opportunity to get a 2nd in this year's draft for him. Chicago jumps out as they have four 2nd rd picks this year and with Bedard coming they might want a player who is closer to the NHL than anyone they will get in Rd 2 this year. Incidentally, the Blackhawks have some work to do to get to the cap floor. They also don't have any goal scorers on their current roster. A Johnson/Olofsson deal for a 2nd in 2023 and a later pick in 24 or 25 might make sense for both teams. I'm sure Chicago's tear down is over. They got what they wanted. Now we see how fast they try to rise. I suspect they will be busy in free agency unless they trade for somebody to offer cap relief to some team. It's easy to get to the cap floor. Lots of teams want to dump salaries. They could (for example) get Hayes from Philly for cheap and to have a veteran center as Bedard adjusts, grows, and gets ready to take over. Lots of other options. 2
French Collection Posted May 21, 2023 Report Posted May 21, 2023 6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: I'm sure Chicago's tear down is over. They got what they wanted. Now we see how fast they try to rise. I suspect they will be busy in free agency unless they trade for somebody to offer cap relief to some team. It's easy to get to the cap floor. Lots of teams want to dump salaries. They could (for example) get Hayes from Philly for cheap and to have a veteran center as Bedard adjusts, grows, and gets ready to take over. Lots of other options. I’m sure Nashville would get rid of the Johansen contract. Another C option.
PromoTheRobot Posted May 21, 2023 Report Posted May 21, 2023 On 5/20/2023 at 9:39 AM, Archie Lee said: A pick in the 50's in 2023 is worth more than pick 63 or 64 in 2024. I will be pleasantly surprised if we get a 2nd for Olofsson. I don't think we are getting significant blue-line help for him either. I like Olofsson more than most fans, but I don't think his value is very high. How some people can't value a player that scores 20+ goals is hard to comprehend. Maybe Olafsson can't do much else well than put the puck in the net, but he's putting pucks in nets. 1
Pimlach Posted May 21, 2023 Report Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) On 5/20/2023 at 8:39 AM, Archie Lee said: A pick in the 50's in 2023 is worth more than pick 63 or 64 in 2024. I will be pleasantly surprised if we get a 2nd for Olofsson. I don't think we are getting significant blue-line help for him either. I like Olofsson more than most fans, but I don't think his value is very high. We shall see what the market is for a guy that just scored 28 goals, improved his 5v5 scoring, and has at least 20 goals in the last 3 of 4 seasons. I think we can package Olofsson in a "hockey trade" that improves our team right now. Draft choice tickets are nice but we need a top 4 defenseman to stabilize the backline and if KO/ZG leave we could use a veteran two way forward with PK ability on the bottom 6. Edited May 22, 2023 by Pimlach 1 1
PerreaultForever Posted May 21, 2023 Report Posted May 21, 2023 7 hours ago, French Collection said: I’m sure Nashville would get rid of the Johansen contract. Another C option. Ya, Nashville's an interesting one to watch. Trotz coming in, one would assume he will want to rebuild in that hard nosed work ethic mold he's always coached with but whether or not they are building or still tearing down is hard to say. They weren't that far off even with the tearing down so they might see themselves as just a few players away. idk. Will be interesting to see what they do. 1
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