Arizona Coyotes sue City of Phoenix

[LGR4GM]

 

[LGR4GM]

More info

 

[OverPowerYou]

No matter what happens I’m rooting for the team to leave Arizona

[Eleven]

Let me guess who's bankrolling this bs lawsuit...

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Let me guess who's bankrolling this bs lawsuit...

Genuinely curious because I'm ignorant about it, does the lawsuit not have any legal merit?

[Two or less]

1 hour ago, OverPowerYou said:

No matter what happens I’m rooting for the team to leave Arizona

I'm with you there. Although, i'm a sucker and would like to see this Tempe project happen. Between JR on with Rivs and Petey, and a friend of mine who lives in Mesa, Arizona, they're convinced if Coyotes make it to Tempe it'll be a gold mine for the nhl. Big snow bird population there and area is buzzin all winter long. Small sample size but NHL could also use 2 more expansion teams for the expansion fee.

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

Genuinely curious because I'm ignorant about it, does the lawsuit not have any legal merit?

The Hockey Guy had a video on this topic and thought that the Coyotes had a decent case here. That the city of Phoenix and Sky Harbor Airport are reneging on prior agreements and are acting in bad faith, raising dubious objections designed to scuttle the Tempe project.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[JohnC]

The Bills went through the laborious process of getting an approval for a new stadium. It went fairly smoothly. The attention to detail and cooperation between the many parties involved should be appreciated. It's a complex and long process. We should give credit to all those involved who got it done. 

[Eleven]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

Genuinely curious because I'm ignorant about it, does the lawsuit not have any legal merit?

I don't know--I haven't read it and probably won't be able to anytime soon.

[MattPie]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

Genuinely curious because I'm ignorant about it, does the lawsuit not have any legal merit?

I have no idea, but I'll admit that the grandstanding tweets above immediately made me think they're courting public opinion because their case is weak. 🙂

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The Bills went through the laborious process of getting an approval for a new stadium. It went fairly smoothly. The attention to detail and cooperation between the many parties involved should be appreciated. It's a complex and long process. We should give credit to all those involved who got it done. 

Except we have another stadium project in OP, with limited uses, that impacts the tax payers in the county - while other cities build downtown stadiums, and the revenues they generate boost the downtown city.   

Not everyone is completely happy with the result.   The difference in Buffalo is that The Bills Organization is happy, so be it.   

Edited April 6, 2023 by Pimlach

[spndnchz]

Or start a team in Utah. We have a few players to send?

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Except we have another stadium project in OP, with limited uses, that impacts the tax payers in the county - while other cities build downtown stadiums, and the revenues they generate boost the downtown city.   

Not everyone is completely happy with the result.   The difference in Buffalo is that The Bills Organization is happy, so be it.   

In any stadium project not everyone is completely happy with the result. A downtown site was considered. The costs and complications in building a stadium downtown and what that would entail (infrastructure, eminent domain etc.) made that project financially unfeasible. All the interested parties involved in this complicated endeavor worked out their differences in a professional and timely manner. Fortunately, this didn't turn into an interminable Peace Bridge debate that lasted for nearly a generation because of the parties couldn't come to an accommodation. That project ended up being scrapped. The bottom line is you either compromise or you end up with nothing other than talking points and finger-pointing. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by JohnC

[Zamboni]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

In any stadium project not everyone is completely happy with the result. A downtown site was considered. The costs and complications in building a stadium downtown and what that would entail (infrastructure, eminent domain etc.) made that project financially unfeasible. All the interested parties involved in this complicated endeavor worked out their differences in a professional and timely manner. Fortunately, this didn't turn into an interminable Peace Bridge debate that lasted for nearly a generation because of the parties couldn't come to an accommodation. That project ended up being scrapped. The bottom line is you either compromise or you end up with nothing other than talking points and finger-pointing. 

Compromise is becoming a dirty word or an impossible task to achieve. For everything.

[Pimlach]

42 minutes ago, JohnC said:

In any stadium project not everyone is completely happy with the result. A downtown site was considered. The costs and complications in building a stadium downtown and what that would entail (infrastructure, eminent domain etc.) made that project financially unfeasible. All the interested parties involved in this complicated endeavor worked out their differences in a professional and timely manner. Fortunately, this didn't turn into an interminable Peace Bridge debate that lasted for nearly a generation because of the parties couldn't come to an accommodation. That project ended up being scrapped. The bottom line is you either compromise or you end up with nothing other than talking points and finger-pointing. 

Certainly putting an NFL Stadium in Buffalo was not going to be easy.  Parking, transportation flow, the current poor location of the highway system right on the water front, the Skyway question, and the environmental impacts and clean up all made it harder than just throwing up another facility in OP.   This had to be viewed as a bigger project than just a place for the Bills to play.   

It would have been an ambitious project that had to go beyond football to make it feasible.  As you stated, the important thing is we got there.  The Bills are staying, at least for a while longer.   I would not call the final decision a rousing success but it is a compromise decision that took the easiest and least expensive path.  The Peace Bridge analogy is a good one.   Remember the silly excitement of putting a Bass Pro Shop into the old Aud?  Another example of Buffalo thinking small and getting paralyzed.  

I saw the downtown stadium as an opportunity to get rid of the old and ugly and re-purpose it with modern and beautiful.  The Stadium, green space parks, parking, hotels, restaurants/shops, access to the waterfront -- maybe by the end of the century?  

[MattPie]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Certainly putting an NFL Stadium in Buffalo was not going to be easy.  Parking, transportation flow, the current poor location of the highway system right on the water front, the Skyway question, and the environmental impacts and clean up all made it harder than just throwing up another facility in OP.   This had to be viewed as a bigger project than just a place for the Bills to play.   

It would have been an ambitious project that had to go beyond football to make it feasible.  As you stated, the important thing is we got there.  The Bills are staying, at least for a while longer.   I would not call the final decision a rousing success but it is a compromise decision that took the easiest and least expensive path.  The Peace Bridge analogy is a good one.   Remember the silly excitement of putting a Bass Pro Shop into the old Aud?  Another example of Buffalo thinking small and getting paralyzed.  

I saw the downtown stadium as an opportunity to get rid of the old and ugly and re-purpose it with modern and beautiful.  The Stadium, green space parks, parking, hotels, restaurants/shops, access to the waterfront -- maybe by the end of the century?  

We'll be able to think at each other on SabreNeuralSpace in 30 years when they need a new stadium. It just seems like such a missed opportunity.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Certainly putting an NFL Stadium in Buffalo was not going to be easy.  Parking, transportation flow, the current poor location of the highway system right on the water front, the Skyway question, and the environmental impacts and clean up all made it harder than just throwing up another facility in OP.   This had to be viewed as a bigger project than just a place for the Bills to play.   

It would have been an ambitious project that had to go beyond football to make it feasible.  As you stated, the important thing is we got there.  The Bills are staying, at least for a while longer.   I would not call the final decision a rousing success but it is a compromise decision that took the easiest and least expensive path.  The Peace Bridge analogy is a good one.   Remember the silly excitement of putting a Bass Pro Shop into the old Aud?  Another example of Buffalo thinking small and getting paralyzed.  

I saw the downtown stadium as an opportunity to get rid of the old and ugly and re-purpose it with modern and beautiful.  The Stadium, green space parks, parking, hotels, restaurants/shops, access to the waterfront -- maybe by the end of the century?  

I remember the Bass Pro Shop saga differently. There was a lot of excitement about a mega Bass Pro Shop being located where the old aud use to exist. The hope was that it would attract a large number of people to the area, as it has done for other stores. What happened is that there was a not-so-firm agreement from the owner/s Johnny Morris and Bros that the project would move forward. There was a lot of hope but no action. And of course, there was a resistant faction to the project that I'm sure was a factor in the tepid response of the owners of the business. 

Ironically, after the failure of the project to materialize, there was a determination by the political establishment and the business community to get something done to better utilize the waterfront area. So a comprehensive plan was made, and for the last 25 years or so, the plan has steadily and organically been implemented. When I grew up that area was wasteland that was used for parking. Now, it is my understanding that it is well developed, with projects that are still in the works. 

If my memory is inaccurate, I would appreciate being corrected. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, MattPie said:

We'll be able to think at each other on SabreNeuralSpace in 30 years when they need a new stadium. It just seems like such a missed opportunity.

The Orchard Park stadium has been in existence for a half-century. It had gone through a number of costly rehab jobs. The current facility simply has run out its lifespan, as all stadiums eventually do. 

[Pimlach]

Who had that wide open shot?    Come on Dan, use names or numbers if you must.  

[Weave]

45 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Who had that wide open shot?    Come on Dan, use names or numbers if you must.  

Is it always you posting game night stuff in an unrelated thread, or does it just feel like it? 😂

Edited April 7, 2023 by Weave

[Pimlach]

Just now, Weave said:

Is it always you posting in an unrelated thread, or does it just feel like it? 😂

It’s me quite a bit.  I get notifications during GDTs in other threads. Read them and post by mistake.  
 

I like to Blame it on the scotch. 

[Weave]

Just now, Pimlach said:

It’s me quite a bit.  I get notifications during GDTs in other threads. Read them and post by mistake.  
 

I like to Blame it on the scotch. 

I always assume it’s the scotch.

[klos1963]

13 hours ago, JohnC said:

The Bills went through the laborious process of getting an approval for a new stadium. It went fairly smoothly. The attention to detail and cooperation between the many parties involved should be appreciated. It's a complex and long process. We should give credit to all those involved who got it done. 

But really no comparison to this project. The issue the city of Phoenix has is in regards to the residential apartments that will be part of the project and will be in the flight path of the airport.  The Bills were just about a stadium, this is about a huge multi-billion dollar project of an arena , shops , restaurants, hotels and apartments. And no real taxpayer money for the project, just some infrastructure.

I'm biased, living here and hoping for the team to stay. They've never had the right place to play along with stable ownership. Hopefully this will finally be the right combo. The Coyotes outdrew the Sabres , Ottawa and I think Florida last season. They'll do fine in Tempe.  The vote is mid May so we will know shortly.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, klos1963 said:

But really no comparison to this project. The issue the city of Phoenix has is in regards to the residential apartments that will be part of the project and will be in the flight path of the airport.  The Bills were just about a stadium, this is about a huge multi-billion dollar project of an arena , shops , restaurants, hotels and apartments. And no real taxpayer money for the project, just some infrastructure.

I'm biased, living here and hoping for the team to stay. They've never had the right place to play along with stable ownership. Hopefully this will finally be the right combo. The Coyotes outdrew the Sabres , Ottawa and I think Florida last season. They'll do fine in Tempe.  The vote is mid May so we will know shortly.

There is no question that the proposed Arizona project is much greater and complex than the Buffalo stadium project. My point with my previous post is that all the parties here were aware of not only what could be done but also what realistically couldn't be done. The Buffalo stadium project was a simple project compared to the grander and more multi-faced project in your area. Let's not forget that in the Buffalo area simple projects have a history of getting stalled due to intransigence. A classic example of that was the Peace Bridge project that was fought over for a generation. In the end, the project died because sides were not willing to make the necessary compromises. That didn't happen here. The timeline here was short. The disputes were worked out. The new stadium will get build. There is a saying that is very applicable here: Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. 

[klos1963]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There is no question that the proposed Arizona project is much greater and complex than the Buffalo stadium project. My point with my previous post is that all the parties here were aware of not only what could be done but also what realistically couldn't be done. The Buffalo stadium project was a simple project compared to the grander and more multi-faced project in your area. Let's not forget that in the Buffalo area simple projects have a history of getting stalled due to intransigence. A classic example of that was the Peace Bridge project that was fought over for a generation. In the end, the project died because sides were not willing to make the necessary compromises. That didn't happen here. The timeline here was short. The disputes were worked out. The new stadium will get build. There is a saying that is very applicable here: Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. 

When I moved away in 1999, the new Peace Bridge project was just passed. I was thinking that it would be nice to be around for that. It's been 24 years.  Crazy.