Sabres are having their Pride Night on Monday

[Sabres73]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Why?   I don't know why.   Maybe the other Russian players might not ever go back to Russia, or maybe they just might like snubbing Putin?  You will have to write them and ask them for yourself.  

Fine, you don't have to support Lybushkin either.   You sure seem to know a lot about the inner thoughts of Ilya Lyubushkin to come up with that opinion.  

I guess you know his inner thoughts too, right? I think some of you are pretty gullible.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

Correct.   I blame Russia for their ***** policies.

That said, it's an opportunity for the league/Sabres.   Give the Russian players the option to wear a normal jersey or wear a jersey promoting peace for Russia or some other noble cause that won't put their families at risk or oppose their religious beliefs.. no matter how archaic those beliefs may be.

 

This is kinda where I’m landing too: the league should’ve handled this better. Besides soccer, I can’t think of another league out there that is this culturally diverse. And unfortunately some countries have archaic laws and views that can lead to legal repercussions, which is a big deal when you are in the type of work that requires a visa.

NHL players supporting LBGQT pride is something to celebrate. It seems asking players to volunteer to wear pride jerseys during a warmup instead of mandating it would have protected each players personal choices, while still celebrating and respecting everyone’s differences. 

It was a huge missed opportunity, especially if it was supposed to accomplish anything besides virtue signaling, because no one is better for it today.  Except for me, and my $50 level 100 tickets I scooped up this morning…

Edited March 27, 2023 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[Mango]

On 3/24/2023 at 6:48 PM, msw2112 said:

While I think that some of the attempts at "inclusivity" go a little bit too far to the point of silliness, I think that this initiative is a good one.  If sports stars, who many look up to (young and old) are supportive of inclusion, it might sway some of the fans who may be on the fence about it.  Plus, it's good economically for the sport.  If 10% of the population is gay, wouldn't you want to connect with that portion of the population so that they are buying tickets, jerseys, watching on TV (and thus viewing advertisers ads), etc.?

You'd think that professional athletes would be comfortable enough in their own skin to be able to wear a colored jersey for a few minutes that might be meaningful to others (and beneficial to the league), even if it doesn't align with their own preferences.  I'm not sure I buy the religious excuse.  I'd guess if you asked the current Pope or whether he would support wearing the jerseys, he'd say yes.  I would also say that if one or two guys don't want to wear the jerseys, let them take a pass, but the other guys who either support the cause, or are neutral about it, should wear them.  There may be upside to doing so, and for those guys, there's not much downside.

Not to mention that there is a 100% chance that there are closeted teammates across the NHL. Imagine being on some of these rosters and your team basically saying "eat poop, I don't agree with your "lifestyle""...must feel awesome....

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Mango
word

[Marvin]

Putin routinely uses threats against families to control players abroad, be it hockey or chess.  It is unrealistic to expect player to act differently.

Let me speak to this personally from another country.  In the 1984-5 academic year, the Indira Gandhi government got Penthouse magazine to write an article accusing my dad of being an arms supplier of Sikhs in India.  They threatened my dad with the death of his 80-something parents by slow torture with picture mailed to him.  This was because he was helping Jack Kemp on his re-election campaign.  When nothing happened, India pressured the Reagan Administration to get my Dad run off what we now know was the B-2 contract.  The part he was working on ground to a halt.  They had to bring him back a couple of months later at a much higher salary because all the MIT, Princeton, CalTech, etc. grads could not do what the guy from Buffalo State could do.  If you want to know where $1B of the several billion of cost-overruns on the project came from, now you know.

I myself was threatened by the new Indian Student Union at Case Western Reserve to work publicly on pro-Indira publicity or "face the consequences."  (All of them were new students.  These cowards did not go to CWRU until I had established myself.)  I found out from the INS that as a citizen, I could run the kids out on a rail just on my say-so for their threats.

I take the belief in threats very seriously.

[Pimlach]

Just now, Sabres73 said:

I guess you know his inner thoughts too, right? I think some of you are pretty gullible.

No. I do not know his inner thoughts.   I am accepting his position without needing proof, and without making up a bunch of Bull$hit like you just did.   I read what Okposso tweeted on the subject.  Kyle has credibility with me, and so does Lyubushkin, and so do both Granato and Adams.    If this is the Sabres position I am fine with it.  It tracks with similar situations involving other teams and other Russian players.  

If that makes me gullible that is ok.  I may be gullible, but I don't post unsubstantiated negative comments about people when I have no knowledge of what is actually going on.  

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Well, spineless public idiots may threaten families. But at least no govt. entity will 👍🏼
Besides Canada and the US, are there any other counties on the planet that show so much support for gay citizens like this? 🤔

More than 100 bills in 23 states limiting LGTBQ rights have been proposed or passed. 23 states. Nearly half the Union. I’m saddened to say that the idea that “no govt. entity” is a threat to that community is just not true and never has been in our history as a nation. 

[Sabres73]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

No. I do not know his inner thoughts.   I am accepting his position without needing proof, and without making up a bunch of Bull$hit like you just did.   I read what Okposso tweeted on the subject.  Kyle has credibility with me, and so does Lyubushkin, and so do both Granato and Adams.    If this is the Sabres position I am fine with it.  It tracks with similar situations involving other teams and other Russian players.  

If that makes me gullible that is ok.  I may be gullible, but I don't post unsubstantiated negative comments about people when I have no knowledge of what is actually going on.  

I of course didn't post an "unsubstantiated negative comment", I posted what is called an opinion. And my opinion is you're wrong. My opinion is these fools are using it as an excuse because of their own ridiculous beliefs. You seriously think the KGB is going to knock on his door because he wore a colourful jersey in a pre-game skate? Good grief.

[Marvin]

Addendum: I don't think that a player should wear a jersey promoting something they don't believe.  That is what freedom is all about.  We are also free to draw our own conclusions.

Honestly, with something like a warm-up jersey, I don't know where showing tolerance ends and giving endorsement begins.  Writing as someone with a now trans-nephew.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

So one person’s beliefs is greater than someone else’s 🤔. 

Absolutely. If one person's belief is equality and inclusion and the other person's belief is discrimination and exclusion, they are most definitely NOT equal. 

The notion that there are two equally valid sides to every issue in our modern age is a falsity magnified by the internet. Religious people should simply put aside their prejudices and think a little harder about what Christ would do. Inviting everybody in was kind of his thing. 

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

I of course didn't post an "unsubstantiated negative comment", I posted what is called an opinion. And my opinion is you're wrong. My opinion is these fools are using it as an excuse because of their own ridiculous beliefs. You seriously think the KGB is going to knock on his door because he wore a colourful jersey in a pre-game skate? Good grief.

You opinion ->  "My opinion is he's using this Russia law as an excuse, and I don't support him. It's pretty awful actually."  is based on nothing substantial.  It is actually very negative.  

Do I think the Russian police will do anything to these families?  I have not a clue.  I do not have enough information to assess that, certainly have no reliable information that maybe Russian players might actually have.  So, unlike you, I will not post an opinion.  

Enjoy the game tonight.  

 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Also Russian players are, well Russian citizens, and are subject to their laws. 

and on the other hand Ovechkin (and some of the others I'm sure) are Putin supporters and Putin's been named a war criminal, there's that whole little thing in the Ukraine and we sanction Russia and they can't go to the Olympics as Russia and all that other stuff but despite what Hasek wanted, nobody kicked any Russians out of the league did they. Putin going to take his heroes and lock them up when they go home cause they put on a pride jersey for 5 minutes over here? I think not. 

and the Staal's aren't Russian, they're just homophobes. 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Ok, let's work with "chicken shits" for a moment.  What in the world would they have been afraid of?  The city has a lesbian mayor, for crying out loud.  I think it's more likely that the owner doesn't support the cause, or even that the team showed solidarity with one player.  I don't see fear as a potential motivation.

Either way Chicago lied about why they weren't doing it. 

And I do see fear as a motivating factor. 

[Sabres73]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You opinion ->  "My opinion is he's using this Russia law as an excuse, and I don't support him. It's pretty awful actually."  is based on nothing substantial.  It is actually very negative.  

Do I think the Russian police will do anything to these families?  I have not a clue.  I do not have enough information to assess that, certainly have no reliable information that maybe Russian players might actually have.  So, unlike you, I will not post an opinion.  

Enjoy the game tonight.  

 

Get off your high horse, there's nothing "negative" about my opinion. And I could certainly argue your lack of support for the LGBTQ community is negative. See how that works?

[That Aud Smell]

28 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Let me speak to this personally from another country. 

I couldn't find the right gif. That story was funking wild, man.

[Eleven]

37 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Putin routinely uses threats against families to control players abroad, be it hockey or chess.  It is unrealistic to expect player to act differently.

Let me speak to this personally from another country.  In the 1984-5 academic year, the Indira Gandhi government got Penthouse magazine to write an article accusing my dad of being an arms supplier of Sikhs in India.  They threatened my dad with the death of his 80-something parents by slow torture with picture mailed to him.  This was because he was helping Jack Kemp on his re-election campaign.  When nothing happened, India pressured the Reagan Administration to get my Dad run off what we now know was the B-2 contract.  The part he was working on ground to a halt.  They had to bring him back a couple of months later at a much higher salary because all the MIT, Princeton, CalTech, etc. grads could not do what the guy from Buffalo State could do.  If you want to know where $1B of the several billion of cost-overruns on the project came from, now you know.

I myself was threatened by the new Indian Student Union at Case Western Reserve to work publicly on pro-Indira publicity or "face the consequences."  (All of them were new students.  These cowards did not go to CWRU until I had established myself.)  I found out from the INS that as a citizen, I could run the kids out on a rail just on my say-so for their threats.

I take the belief in threats very seriously.

Well at least no one read the article.

[Pimlach]

Just now, Sabres73 said:

Get off your high horse, there's nothing "negative" about my opinion. And I could certainly argue your lack of support for the LGBTQ community is negative. See how that works?

Very clever.   Unfortunately you just fell off your high horse with that low blow.  

You responded to my post about my accepting Lyubushkin's decision with your "opinion".   I consider your opinion to be unsubstantiated and negative toward him and the Sabres.  You didn't like that and called me, and others, gullible,  In addition you have no worries about what will happen in Russia.  How very nice and convenient for you.  Now you're turning things to say I have a lack of support for the LBGTQ Community.  Let me be clear - Just because I accept Lyubushkin's position does not mean I do not support LGBTQ inclusion.   Like everyone else, I have both friends and family in the LGBTQ community, but good try.

You are grasping at straws because you might finally see that your opinion could have been a bit harsh at the time, or you are just trying to goad me.  Either way, I am concluding my correspondence with you, it is not enjoyable and we are getting nowhere.  

Enjoy the game tonight.  

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

Why are other Russian players okay with it?

My opinion is he's using this Russia law as an excuse, and I don't support him. It's pretty awful actually.

I think you should put yourself in his shoes before making a decision 

[SabresVet]

39 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Absolutely. If one person's belief is equality and inclusion and the other person's belief is discrimination and exclusion, they are most definitely NOT equal. 

The notion that there are two equally valid sides to every issue in our modern age is a falsity magnified by the internet. Religious people should simply put aside their prejudices and think a little harder about what Christ would do. Inviting everybody in was kind of his thing. 

I'm waiting for the NHL to begin embracing world religions as a demonstration of their diversity, equity, and inclusiveness.  If they want to attract more fans, there are billions who adhere to a religion.  They could even feature jerseys with religions symbols that would be auctioned off to support not just the monotheistic faiths, but others as well.  Best part is, I doubt any foreign leader would object to just a diverse, equitable, and inclusive pursuit.      

[#freejame]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

My good sir, i believe you are a bit lost - 2005 reddit is over there 👉

Oh, and thou hast some cheeto dust on thy fedora

Maybe if people stoped picking Old Testament nonsense to justify their beliefs people will stop picking Old Testament nonsense to tell them their beliefs are nonsense. Until there is any continuity in belief, it comes off solely as “I don’t like the gays.”  They can either follow the teaching of Jesus or they can find a different Abrahamic religion to follow that coincides more with their beliefs. 

[Marvin]

40 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Well at least no one read the article.

Which article?  Please point me to the page.  I just wanted to show the plausibility of threats against families in Russia against players around the world.

Post Scriptum: The Soviets sent Viktor Korchnoi's kid to a forced labor camp before the 1981 FIDE World Chess Championship and coerced Florencio Campomanes into interrupting the 1984 World Championship because the Armenian Garry Kasparov had worn Anatoli Karpov down.  It would not surprise me in the least if Putin has threatened people.

[#freejame]

3 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

1) there are other way to support organizations/charities than put the players in precarious situations like this

 2) maybe Malkin plans on never returning to Russia or he’s doesn’t care about potentially being incarcerated if he does return🤷‍♂️

3) so the Staals have to ignore their religious beliefs but they HAVE TO RESPECT other people’s beliefs. So one’s persons beliefs are greater than someone else’s… Got it 👍. 

The issue with the decline in church membership is that it’s created a whole new sect of Christians whose beliefs are rooted in whatever they feel inside of them, rather than what’s historically based and believed based on the practices of their prescribed faiths. If Christians can simply dismiss and obey whatever they feel what are they actually believing in?

I would say that they Staal’s probably already ignore their own beliefs just fine, but I’m sure they are cafeteria Christians and what they are doing coincide with their beliefs just fine. 

[Sidc3000]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Absolutely. If one person's belief is equality and inclusion and the other person's belief is discrimination and exclusion, they are most definitely NOT equal. 

The notion that there are two equally valid sides to every issue in our modern age is a falsity magnified by the internet. Religious people should simply put aside their prejudices and think a little harder about what Christ would do. Inviting everybody in was kind of his thing. 

Well thank god we live in a country we live in a country that allows us to have different opinions and beliefs unlike countries like Russia 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Sabres73 said:

I of course didn't post an "unsubstantiated negative comment", I posted what is called an opinion. And my opinion is you're wrong. My opinion is these fools are using it as an excuse because of their own ridiculous beliefs. You seriously think the KGB is going to knock on his door because he wore a colourful jersey in a pre-game skate? Good grief.

Not on his door, but the doors of family, yeah, that’s a distinct possibility. After all, the fascist authoritarian in charge has had his henchmen knock on doors for less.