Fixing The Forward Group - For this season and next

[GASabresIUFAN]

Despite all their success this season, the forward group is currently a jigsaw puzzle with pieces that don’t fit right now.  

Yes, the top line has had a great season.  Yes, Cozens has been awesome as well.  Quinn is developing nicely.  For everyone else the season has been a series of ups and downs and nothing is really working right now.  

The combo that worked best came after the waiver claim for Jost.  The kids worked well with Cozens, Jost gelled with Mitts and VO and Krebs gave the Vets a boost on the 4th line. 

Now VO’s production has disappeared since DG broke up the kid line.  Mitts flourished for a while with Jost and then Cozens, but the change cost VO. Quinn and JJP hit the wall, with only Quinn recovering.  Krebs was elevated to the 3rd line but that hasn’t really worked. Jost has been a healthy scratch for some reason. Defenses have adjusted to TNT slowing his scoring pace.  Tuch’s injury certainly helped muddy the waters.  Now we are trying to integrate Greenway into the mix.  

With 13 games left and the playoffs becoming a non-factor, what should DG to reinvigorate his forward group for the remainder of the season?

What should DG/KA be looking at for next season?

My first reaction is to focus on next year.  I’d put the lines back together that worked well earlier in the year with one change. I’d rotate Greenway in on the 4th line giving Z and KO days off and also swapping Greenway in for anyone who is nicked up.  

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Mitts Jost VO

Z Krebs KO - Greenway

So why back to this? One, it worked. Two, we need to get VO going to enhance his off-season trade value.  If we can get some secondary scoring again maybe that will loosen things up for the top line. Three, getting JJP back to a comfortable line  might get him going as well.  Fourth, odds are the Greenway is going to be on our energy line next year.  He might as well try to develop some chemistry with those players.  

Edited March 21, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

After I made my original post, I realized that this topic would morph into a discussion of next season as well. 

Z, KO and Jost are the relevant FAs in the group. Jost is an RFA.  Greenway was acquired to replace Z or KO.  My guess is KO is moving on.  

The Sabres are still weak on the puck and don’t back check consistently.  The forward group needs to get tougher and stronger.  The kids will need to spend the offseason in the weight room.  

I’d like to see KA acquire someone like Haula to center the 4th line. A line of Z, Greenway and Haula might be able to give the Sabres a reasonable facsimile of the Greenway, Foligno, EK line in Minn.  

What happens if Savoie makes the team? He can’t play in Rochester next season and has nothing left to prove in the CHL.  Where does he fit.  My guess is we trade VO and pencil Savoie into the spot. What about Krebs and Jost? Where should they play if Haula (or someone like him) is acquired? Does Jost become the 13th forward?

Do we like the idea of Mitts Krebs Savoie?  What if DG likes Mitts Cozens Quinn as the 2nd line? Does JJP Krebs Savoie sound workable?

I’m assuming for now that Kulich doesn’t make the team.  

[Night Train]

I would like to see some actual off-season moves to change the soft culture of this club. UFA's mean no trade compensation. Others will be moved for more reasonable prices than the trade deadline. 

I get we're all excited to see more kids from the pipeline but some vets with a bit of grit (Forward and D) are badly needed. Then figure out which kids to keep in our lineup. Some may need another year in Rochester or be pieces in a trade. 

It's really the off-season for me. Happy Sabres can finally score but they bleed too much in their own end. Doubt much can change in these remaining games. We'll see. 

[Randall Flagg]

For next year I am interested in seeing a depth chart similar to:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
JJP - Cozens - Quinn
Mitts - Krebs - XXX
Girgensons - YYY - ZZZ

I understand that Y and Z will probably be Jost and Greenway, and accept this, but would not include them in those spots if I were doing it. I am also open to moving MItts even though I like the way he's been playing lately. Overall I would basically aim to add 2 players of "middle six" or "bottom six" caliber, players that teams like Tampa rely on if Kucherov/Stamkos had an off night. Palat/Killorn and Maroon/Perry/guys like that would fit wonderfully in XXX and ZZZ, and make Jost palatable as YYY. They are just examples from the past 5 years of the type of player I want in that role - capable, miserable to play against, someone who has veteran experience (these three things are listed in order of importance to me, but I'd like them all to be there). 

This is the least I've ever wanted to add to the forward group in an offseason. But that doesn't mean that the standard Sabres "middle and bottom six" addition suffices - no more Johanssons, Veseys, Pouliots, Sobotkas, Staals. 

 

I haven't checked on either of these guys in the past couple years, but I see that Killorn is actually a UFA right now lol. 

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
JJP - Compher - Killorn
Krebs - Cozens - Quinn
Girgensons - Jost - Mitts 

Just playin around


 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Randall Flagg

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

For next year I am interested in seeing a depth chart similar to:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
JJP - Cozens - Quinn
Mitts - Krebs - XXX
Girgensons - YYY - ZZZ

I understand that Y and Z will probably be Jost and Greenway, and accept this, but would not include them in those spots if I were doing it. I am also open to moving MItts even though I like the way he's been playing lately. Overall I would basically aim to add 2 players of "middle six" or "bottom six" caliber, players that teams like Tampa rely on if Kucherov/Stamkos had an off night. Palat/Killorn and Maroon/Perry/guys like that would fit wonderfully in XXX and ZZZ, and make Jost palatable as YYY. They are just examples from the past 5 years of the type of player I want in that role - capable, miserable to play against, someone who has veteran experience (these three things are listed in order of importance to me, but I'd like them all to be there). 

This is the least I've ever wanted to add to the forward group in an offseason. But that doesn't mean that the standard Sabres "middle and bottom six" addition suffices - no more Johanssons, Veseys, Pouliots, Sobotkas, Staals. 

 

I haven't checked on either of these guys in the past couple years, but I see that Killorn is actually a UFA right now lol. 

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
JJP - Compher - Killorn
Krebs - Cozens - Quinn
Girgensons - Jost - Mitts 

Just playin around


 

We need a better face-off centre than Jost, although he could play wing on the 4th line.

Although I like the idea in theory, I am not convinced Killorn will leave Tampa even if he has to give a significant discount unless it is a contender willing to give him a stupid contract.  I think we might have better luck with guys like Compher or, as others have mentioned, Haula: mid-range guys whom we can overpay slightly if need be who play a grittier game.  The grittier game is non-negotiable.

[Randall Flagg]

11 minutes ago, Marvin said:

We need a better face-off centre than Jost, although he could play wing on the 4th line.

Although I like the idea in theory, I am not convinced Killorn will leave Tampa even if he has to give a significant discount unless it is a contender willing to give him a stupid contract.  I think we might have better luck with guys like Compher or, as others have mentioned, Haula: mid-range guys whom we can overpay slightly if need be who play a grittier game.  The grittier game is non-negotiable.

Yep just had to pick some names, there are plenty of guys available via Ufa or trade that can fit the bill. No excuse for this not to happen

[Carmel Corn]

I'd like to see some trades or signings to get a two or three players who can play a heavier game....hard forechecking, battling for puck possession, going to the front of the net, screening the goalie, etc.

Ideally they should have speed and can backcheck well too.  

[PerreaultForever]

Well it won't surprise you that I think we need major changes. 

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch

Cozens Quinn Peterka Krebs

and 5 forwards currently not on this roster

 

also want 2 D men and a goalie (as well as Levi)

I also know it won't happen. 

[FrenchConnection44]

19 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

After I made my original post, I realized that this topic would morph into a discussion of next season as well. 

Z, KO and Jost are the relevant FAs in the group. Jost is an RFA.  Greenway was acquired to replace Z or KO.  My guess is KO is moving on.  

The Sabres are still weak on the puck and don’t back check consistently.  The forward group needs to get tougher and stronger.  The kids will need to spend the offseason in the weight room.  

I’d like to see KA acquire someone like Haula to center the 4th line. A line of Z, Greenway and Haula might be able to give the Sabres a reasonable facsimile of the Greenway, Foligno, EK line in Minn.  

What happens if Savoie makes the team? He can’t play in Rochester next season and has nothing left to prove in the CHL.  Where does he fit.  My guess is we trade VO and pencil Savoie into the spot. What about Krebs and Jost? Where should they play if Haula (or someone like him) is acquired? Does Jost become the 13th forward?

Do we like the idea of Mitts Krebs Savoie?  What if DG likes Mitts Cozens Quinn as the 2nd line? Does JJP Krebs Savoie sound workable?

I’m assuming for now that Kulich doesn’t make the team.  

Generally concur here. I’d trade Mitts. I like Haula. They do need a good two way Forward. With a good +/- . And another defenseman and goalie. 

[Scottysabres]

They are one of the highest scoring teams in the league.

They have forward talent in the pipeline ready to push for roster spots.

What they lack are players who can help weather the heavy physical game employed against them as well as 2 way defensive forwards.

[triumph_communes]

Okposo and Girgensons both need to go. Passengers 

[Huckleberry]

7 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Okposo and Girgensons both need to go. Passengers 

I been saying this for a while now, but sensitive with some.

[French Collection]

8 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Okposo and Girgensons both need to go. Passengers 

I’m OK with this. Girgs still has some game but he is short on true grit. KO is done and as I said in another thread, he has only played 24 playoff games in 16 seasons. He doesn’t know what it takes to win.

I like them as people but it is time.

[Carmel Corn]

25 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Okposo and Girgensons both need to go. Passengers 

Kyle is done.....but Z still has gas and plays the kind of game that is missing too much from the rest of the group.  I'd like to keep Z and I think he would be fairly cheap too.  Maybe he can retire as a Sabre

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

Kyle is done.....but Z still has gas and plays the kind of game that is missing too much from the rest of the group.  I'd like to keep Z and I think he would be fairly cheap too.  Maybe he can retire as a Sabre

Considering the last 10 games are they even providing adequate leadership? 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Considering the last 10 games are they even providing adequate leadership? 

They are playing the game right.  The other guys are definitely less aware of things in their own zone.  I don't know what they can do during a game to help the other forwards.

[Zamboni]

5 minutes ago, Marvin said:

They are playing the game right.  The other guys are definitely less aware of things in their own zone.  I don't know what they can do during a game to help the other forwards.

Not to mention what seems obvious to me (at least)…. Good player leadership doesn’t mean a team will win more. Just as much as bad player leadership doesn’t mean a team will lose more. But maybe that’s just me thinking that crazy stuff.

[Doohicksie]

On 3/21/2023 at 9:09 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

My guess is KO is moving on.  

If this is the case I hope they give him a little tribute of some sort before the season ends.  Call it Captains Day if you must and honor all the As (including the fill-in As) was well as the C.

[mjd1001]

13 hours ago, Doohickie said:

If this is the case I hope they give him a little tribute of some sort before the season ends.  Call it Captains Day if you must and honor all the As (including the fill-in As) was well as the C.

That would be nice.  I think the team and him might not make a decision until the offseason, and if this is his last year, It might be more likely to have a "Klye Okposo day" early in the season next year.  Just so he can keep his options open in the offseason to possibly return to the team, or in case any other team wants to throw a good one year contract at him for his leadership/depth role (if he moves back to Minnesota, would they consider giving him a one year veteran deal that he might accept?)

[thewookie1]

Tyler Bertuzzi, would you give him 4x5mil to play the 3rd line?

[Crusader1969]

Time for Kyle to move on.  Just doesn’t bring enough to the team anymore.  
Plus they need a captain that can lift the team on their shoulders when needed.  Kyle still has the heart but the years have taken their toll.

 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Tyler Bertuzzi, would you give him 4x5mil to play the 3rd line?

Not a culture guy

[Marvin]

11 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Not a culture guy

I don't know one way or another.  Please explain.

[Flashsabre]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:32 AM, PerreaultForever said:

Well it won't surprise you that I think we need major changes. 

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch

Cozens Quinn Peterka Krebs

and 5 forwards currently not on this roster

 

also want 2 D men and a goalie (as well as Levi)

I also know it won't happen. 

Greenway will be back.

Mitts, VO, Zemgus, Okposo, Jost could all be changed for different players.

In house you will have Rousek, Savoie and Kulich pushing for jobs. I think Rousek gets a spot.

They need defensive C that is great at the dot and on the PK. Some more grit in the bottom 6 would be nice too. A couple vet 1 year deals probably as Savoie and Kulich will be ready the following year for sure.

2 vet dmen that can settle down the d zone and a starting goalie are musts. No projects or reclamation projects.

Outside of a starting goalie, this isn’t heavy lifting. The top 2 lines are set, the young core dmen are in place. Adams and crew have to add properly to the group.

[dudacek]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:32 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Well it won't surprise you that I think we need major changes. 

Skinner-Thompson-Tuch

Cozens Quinn Peterka Krebs

and 5 forwards currently not on this roster

 

also want 2 D men and a goalie (as well as Levi)

I also know it won't happen. 

You're not as far off as you might think. It’s just not going to happen as quickly as you want.

Those are the guys who will be there when we are good