How important is Mattius Samuelsson?

[Crusader1969]

the good :

Record with him in the lineup. 

28W 16L 4OTL

the bad:

He's only played 48 games and someone once said the best ability is availability 

I think he is extremely important but he shouldn’t be THAT important.  Reflects very poorly on this teams depth or more appropriately lack of experience 

[Thorner]

He’s as important as any good player on a team still lacking enough good players to finish above the bottom third of the league. No more no less 

[SDS]

I’m fairly confident the team’s deficiency in this area has been noted.

[Randall Flagg]

13 minutes ago, SDS said:

I’m fairly confident the team’s deficiency in this area has been noted.

I've actually been informed by reliable sources that nobody ever talks about this. 

[Weave]

33 minutes ago, SDS said:

I’m fairly confident the team’s deficiency in this area has been noted.

Start a new thread.

 

😁

[SDS]

30 minutes ago, Weave said:

Start a new thread.

 

😁

[DarthEbriate]

Muel-Power is real. Their record with him in the lineup is amazingly different than without -- whether the top line is scoring or VO is scoring or the goaltending is one of those give-up-4-and-win or not.

But of note in his importance: it's Mattias.

[PerreaultForever]

You're absolutely right, he shouldn't be THAT important, but on a team with a D this thin he is. 

If you compare to what we just played, a Stanley Cup contender D, Forbert is injured and was out. They rested Orlov and Zboril who can normally not crack the line up and he had a good game against us. But they still start McAvoy and Lindholm and maybe, MAYBE if you get down to Carlo you're at Samuelsson's equivalent but if Samulelsson was on the Bruins he'd either be in Providence, rotating in like Zboril or at most playing in the bottom pairing (Forbert's spot). That's a reality check. 

[inkman]

15 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Muel-Power is real. Their record with him in the lineup is amazingly different than without -- whether the top line is scoring or VO is scoring or the goaltending is one of those give-up-4-and-win or not.

But of note in his importance: it's Mattias.

Ummm…did you just use the name of one of our defenseman to describe a different defenseman?  I’m confused. 

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, inkman said:

Ummm…did you just use the name of one of our defenseman to describe a different defenseman?  I’m confused. 

The correlation between Dahlin scoring and the team winning is equally prevalent, over a larger sample size, and more compelling due to Samuelsson’s case having much more correlation v causation wiggle room. The Sabres played their best game, and their best defensive game, without Samuelsson, for the record. To me the data and (especially?) eye test supports the idea it’s difficult to lose ANY good player right now considering our lack of impact player depth, and that Samuelsson is a good player. 

He’s good. He’s not *particularly* good - he’s, arguably, particularly valuable, due to our lack of depth on D. But he’s not even the best defensive D on the team. By the numbers and (especially?) the eye test, that’s easily Dahlin (least until last few weeks). Is Samuelsson our second best in that area? Power? One of the two 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Thorny

[Pimlach]

This won’t be popular but here goes: 

When he is out we lose because our depth - Bryson, Clagg, Fitz, and  Pilut is not good

Here is a novel idea.  Add two really good vet defenseman and make Samuelsson earn the top pair slot with 26.  He is there now because we have no one else.  
 

He is a good player but not a special player. He is solid most of the times, and at times he is even very good. He has more upside but is not consistent yet.  He does not use his size to his advantage enough.  Where would he slot on Boston?   

Off season work - Get stronger # 23.  Maybe that will help with injuries too. 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

18 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

the good :

Record with him in the lineup. 

28W 16L 4OTL

the bad:

He's only played 48 games and someone once said the best ability is availability 

I think he is extremely important but he shouldn’t be THAT important.  Reflects very poorly on this teams depth or more appropriately lack of experience 

He's important enough that you should spell his name right. 😛

He is important because the lack of depth means without him, we only have 3 top 5 defenders. 

[tom webster]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

He's important enough that you should spell his name right. 😛

He is important because the lack of depth means without him, we only have 3 top 5 defenders. 

The last sentence is exactly right. The drop off from the top 3/4 is too immense, just as the drop off from first to second line of forwards is a problem, not as great, but still an issue.

The good news is that experience and more prospects will rectify the forward situation and the front office recognizes the defense issue.

[Thorner]

It’s true, I’ve been mentioning how Dahlin’s numbers have taken a big hit due to lack of D depth catching up to him - it’s not as extreme with Thompson but it’s still taking a toll at this time. At once what looked like a certainty, Tage will need to score 13 points in his last 13 to reach the 100 point mark. Currently in 10th in league scoring, still good for a tie with Jack’s placement on said list in 19-20

[Ctaeth]

He's so important because, sadly, his skillset is unique among our defenseman.  A defensive defender who can separate the man from the puck efficiently and then move the puck away.  IMO, his absence is felt more sharply because we simply don't have anyone else that is like him (yet).  They need another defensive defenseman in the top 4 so that we have redunancy in his skill set.. so we aren't screwed when he inevitably misses more games.  

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, Ctaeth said:

He's so important because, sadly, his skillset is unique among our defenseman.  A defensive defender who can separate the man from the puck efficiently and then move the puck away.  IMO, his absence is felt more sharply because we simply don't have anyone else that is like him (yet).  They need another defensive defenseman in the top 4 so that we have redunancy in his skill set.. so we aren't screwed when he inevitably misses more games.  

It isn't IMPO. Dahlin and Power both do it and Dahlin does it better. 

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't IMPO. Dahlin and Power both do it and Dahlin does it better. 

^ It is admittedly a weird thing re perception 

Talking labelling here, when you get labelled a good “defensive Defenceman“, that means you have to be TWO things:

1) good on defence

2) poor on offence 

but just because samuelsson is a good defensive Defenceman, just because defending is HIS speciality, it doesn’t mean it’s better than Dahlin’s. 

Dahlin isn’t an “offensive Defenceman” complete with all the accompanying connotations. He’s just a great Defenceman 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Thorny

[Ctaeth]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't IMPO. Dahlin and Power both do it and Dahlin does it better. 

I agree they both do it, but they are also frequently not in a position to do so because they cheat in when on offense.  The fact that Samuelson tends to stay home whereas the other two do not makes him a really good compliment that they sorely miss when he's not around

[TageMVP]

Doesn't matter how good he supposedly is if hes hurt most of the time 

Injured last year, injured three different times this year 

The guy is big, but doesn't check anyone, doesn't fight, why is he hurt all the time 

Here buddy here's a 7 year contract now be hurt 75% of the time. Yay 

[inkman]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

The correlation between Dahlin scoring and the team winning is equally prevalent, over a larger sample size, and more compelling due to Samuelsson’s case having much more correlation v causation wiggle room. The Sabres played their best game, and their best defensive game, without Samuelsson, for the record. To me the data and (especially?) eye test supports the idea it’s difficult to lose ANY good player right now considering our lack of impact player depth, and that Samuelsson is a good player. 

He’s good. He’s not *particularly* good - he’s, arguably, particularly valuable, due to our lack of depth on D. But he’s not even the best defensive D on the team. By the numbers and (especially?) the eye test, that’s easily Dahlin (least until last few weeks). Is Samuelsson our second best in that area? Power? One of the two 

Still don’t understand Obi-wan-jablowme using the word power to describe Mattias Samuelsson without being a reference to Owen Power.  

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, TageMVP said:

Doesn't matter how good he supposedly is if hes hurt most of the time 

Injured last year, injured three different times this year 

The guy is big, but doesn't check anyone, doesn't fight, why is he hurt all the time 

Here buddy here's a 7 year contract now be hurt 75% of the time. Yay 

Pssst … I have a super secret. Don’t tell anybody. Players who play physically in the NHL tend to get injured more. they tend to not have full seasons. They tend to be injured out of the lineup roughly 10% to 20% of the time during a given season. Are there exceptions? Sure you can find exceptions to anything. But the vast vast majority of “physical” players in the NHL tend to get injured more.  Again, don’t spread this around, it’s super secret info.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Zamboni

[French Collection]

11 minutes ago, inkman said:

Still don’t understand Obi-wan-jablowme using the word power to describe Mattias Samuelsson without being a reference to Owen Power.  

He should have used a lower case p.

Mule-Power is an interesting concept though. I keep wanting a top 4 Dman to partner with Power but what if Mule is the best fit? The new guy could be with Dahlin.

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

The correlation between Dahlin scoring and the team winning is equally prevalent, over a larger sample size, and more compelling due to Samuelsson’s case having much more correlation v causation wiggle room. The Sabres played their best game, and their best defensive game, without Samuelsson, for the record. To me the data and (especially?) eye test supports the idea it’s difficult to lose ANY good player right now considering our lack of impact player depth, and that Samuelsson is a good player. 

He’s good. He’s not *particularly* good - he’s, arguably, particularly valuable, due to our lack of depth on D. But he’s not even the best defensive D on the team. By the numbers and (especially?) the eye test, that’s easily Dahlin (least until last few weeks). Is Samuelsson our second best in that area? Power? One of the two 

The big issue with not having 1 more NHL caliber D-man in the lineup is when 1 guy is out, the best defenseman gets shackled to the tweener.  That should NOT happen.  But it does because Power had seemed to be running out of steam (so he keeps Jokiharju as his partner) and neither Lyubushkin nor Stillman can lug Bryson nor Clague around with him without having the F's completely change their game and Granato is loathe to make the F's change the style.  Which leaves the team's best D-man carrying a tweener.

Heck, if they could get away with Dahlin playing with either Bousch or Stillman that might help him tremendously as both are actual NHLers.   Guess the jury is still out on whether Stillman truly is an NHLer or another tweener, but so far he's looked better than the tweeners or Fitzgerald.

Carrying a boat anchor even for only 12 minutes per game gets old quickly.  Especially when you have to do it against the other team's top line.

[triumph_communes]

Power+Jokiharju is looking awful out there. Dahlin doesn’t look right since a head injury, though his partner situation isn’t helping. 
 

They need to stop worrying about bringing in vets and bring in vets where they have no talent. 

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Power+Jokiharju is looking awful out there. Dahlin doesn’t look right since a head injury, though his partner situation isn’t helping. 
 

They need to stop worrying about bringing in vets and bring in vets where they have no talent. 

I think the entire board knows and agrees with this.