Let's Make a Deal (Suggestions for K.A. for 2023)

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

I am in for Saros. He immediately elevates the team.

If Levi becomes the chosen one in a few years then Saros can be moved for something. He is not old.

If he's available. Really depends on what Nashville plans to do this summer. 

10 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Short answer is he’s Devon Levi, but ready for #1 duty today.  Richter award winner/outstanding in college.

Seasoned two years in the NHL with great numbers on a great team   

I am sure he wants to be #1 and Ullmark is in the way. He’s 1B at best and Boston will need to rebuild in his prime.

Being on the B’s helps his numbers the last two years, but my original reasons why this is an attractive spot stand.  
 

I'd trade for Swayman or offer sheet him. 

[Andrew Amerk]

27 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Short answer is he’s Devon Levi, but ready for #1 duty today.  Richter award winner/outstanding in college.

Seasoned two years in the NHL with great numbers on a great team   

I am sure he wants to be #1 and Ullmark is in the way. He’s 1B at best and Boston will need to rebuild in his prime.

Being on the B’s helps his numbers the last two years, but my original reasons why this is an attractive spot stand.  
 

Yes, but how good would he be on the Sabres right now? 

Would you trade Levi for him straight up? 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Andrew Amerk

[nfreeman]

For those advocating a trade for Saros, Hart or Demko — would you give up any of:

- 2023 first-rounder (assuming low to mid teens)

- Kulich

- Savoie

- Östlund

- Levi

- Quinn

- JJP

…because if the answer is “no” for all of them, I don’t think you’re getting one of those goalies.  

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Demko idk. Streaky and inconsistent. Not sure I'd trust in him. 

but if you don't trade for Hart do you trade for another goalie and if so what's that trade look like? 

Do you really want to go Comrie and UPL in 23/24? I don't. 

See, I feel the same way about Hart as you feel about Demko.

And that’s the thing about goalies, I think we all have our perceptions based on our exposure and our biases as to what makes a goalie good, and very few of us are watching these other guys night after night after night.

I mean we’ve all watched UPL and Comrie pretty intently this year and I’m willing to bet there is no consensus on this board as to who is better. Listening to Marty Biron it’s clear he prefers Comrie and he clearly knows more about goaltending than me. But I don’t see it, and the numbers clearly back me up.

Statistics aren’t real helpful. You prefer Hart by a wide margin, I prefer Demko by a wide margin. Statistically there is no reason to support either of us.

Statistically, Demko  has played 156 NHL games for a mostly mediocre team and has a 2.92 GAA and a .915 SV % while Hart has played 194 games for a mostly mediocre team with a 2.97 GAA and a .905 SV %. Each has had one outlier abbreviated season with poor numbers.

The sure bets aren’t on the market.

It’s a bit of a crap shoot with the next tier, the guys we’ve been talking about. Are they safe enough to be worth paying a high price? 

I don’t want to be paying Kulich for Hart and I don’t see any reason for the Flyers to take Rosen for him. Is there a happy medium?

And after those guys, are they are they really any better bets than Levi and UPL?

Edited March 15, 2023 by dudacek

[Stoner]

Sometimes you gotta say what the *****.

[irregularly irregular]

Do I recall correctly that Levi felt that his game was similar to what Saros does in Nashville? And KA has already made a down payment with the Preds in the form of Asplund for a 7th. I'm trying not to overthink this. 

 

[Porous Five Hole]

1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Yes, but how good would he be on the Sabres right now? 

Would you trade Levi for him straight up? 

Sure would 

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

For those advocating a trade for Saros, Hart or Demko — would you give up any of:

- 2023 first-rounder (assuming low to mid teens)

- Kulich

- Savoie

- Östlund

- Levi

- Quinn

- JJP

…because if the answer is “no” for all of them, I don’t think you’re getting one of those goalies.  

The price is probably 2024 1st, someone you don't want to trade, and someone you would prefer not to trade.

[Andrew Amerk]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The price is probably 2024 1st, someone you don't want to trade, and someone you would prefer not to trade.

Based on what?

In September 2020, Jake Allen was traded to Montreal for a third-rounder and two sevenths.

At the 2020 deadline, Robin Lehner was sent to Vegas for Malcolm Subban, a prospect and a second-round pick.

And just a couple of weeks before that deadline, the Leafs picked up Jack Campbell (and Kyle Clifford) for Trevor Moore and a couple of third-rounders.

Alex Nedeljkovic, a 25-year-old at the time coming off a Calder finalist season, returned only Jonathan Bernier and a third-rounder to Carolina.

Darcy Kuemper trade to Colorado, they gave up Conor Timmins and a first-round pick.

Why is everyone thinking the Sabres would have to give up a 1st and two high prospects for Hart or Demko or even Saros?

[Marvin]

7 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Based on what?

In September 2020, Jake Allen was traded to Montreal for a third-rounder and two sevenths.

At the 2020 deadline, Robin Lehner was sent to Vegas for Malcolm Subban, a prospect and a second-round pick.

And just a couple of weeks before that deadline, the Leafs picked up Jack Campbell (and Kyle Clifford) for Trevor Moore and a couple of third-rounders.

Alex Nedeljkovic, a 25-year-old at the time coming off a Calder finalist season, returned only Jonathan Bernier and a third-rounder to Carolina.

Darcy Kuemper trade to Colorado, they gave up Conor Timmins and a first-round pick.

Why is everyone thinking the Sabres would have to give up a 1st and two high prospects for Hart or Demko or even Saros?

It depends on the desperation of the suitors.  I could see a bidding war get out of hand.

[irregularly irregular]

11 minutes ago, Marvin said:

It depends on the desperation of the suitors.  I could see a bidding war get out of hand.

That's the cool thing about KA. It gets out of hand, he gets out. He's not crossing those lines.

[Hank]

6K, 23 1st, 23 2nd and Olofsson for Saros and Fabbro. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Poile is retiring and if we're going to overpay, Saros is a far better idea than Hart.

I'm not disagreeing that Saros would be a great addition, but until he becomes available you might as well say "maybe Edmonton will trade us McDavid to free up cap space". It's pointless. 

Hart on the other hand is reportedly possible. It would solve our biggest problem for the immediate future. If Levi can supplant him in 3 years even better, but if he can't, at least we would have a decent goalie. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

See, I feel the same way about Hart as you feel about Demko.

And that’s the thing about goalies, I think we all have our perceptions based on our exposure and our biases as to what makes a goalie good, and very few of us are watching these other guys night after night after night.

I mean we’ve all watched UPL and Comrie pretty intently this year and I’m willing to bet there is no consensus on this board as to who is better. Listening to Marty Biron it’s clear he prefers Comrie and he clearly knows more about goaltending than me. But I don’t see it, and the numbers clearly back me up.

Statistics aren’t real helpful. You prefer Hart by a wide margin, I prefer Demko by a wide margin. Statistically there is no reason to support either of us.

Statistically, Demko  has played 156 NHL games for a mostly mediocre team and has a 2.92 GAA and a .915 SV % while Hart has played 194 games for a mostly mediocre team with a 2.97 GAA and a .905 SV %. Each has had one outlier abbreviated season with poor numbers.

The sure bets aren’t on the market.

It’s a bit of a crap shoot with the next tier, the guys we’ve been talking about. Are they safe enough to be worth paying a high price? 

I don’t want to be paying Kulich for Hart and I don’t see any reason for the Flyers to take Rosen for him. Is there a happy medium?

And after those guys, are they are they really any better bets than Levi and UPL?

maybe not a better bet than Levi, but definitely a more immediate one. 

Hart seems to me (from what I've seen) to be a solid bet to make an Ullmark like surge upwards really soon. As such I see this as a Hasek like moment (not saying he will be as good as Hasek, but I do think he could be much much better than he appears to be now). I'd take a Demko trade over what we have now. It would still be better imo than just sticking with what we have and staying the course waiting for Levi. 

Also, I wouldn't give up Kulich either. He is the prospect I'm most high on. The rest, if we can get a decent goalie, I couldn't care less. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not disagreeing that Saros would be a great addition, but until he becomes available you might as well say "maybe Edmonton will trade us McDavid to free up cap space". It's pointless. 

Hart on the other hand is reportedly possible. It would solve our biggest problem for the immediate future. If Levi can supplant him in 3 years even better, but if he can't, at least we would have a decent goalie. 

What a ridiculous comparison. 

Hart isn't good, I don't want him that badly. Not badly enough to trade multiple high end assets for. They want a 2nd in 2025, fine sure. 

Again you don't wanna talk about anything other than Hart. You think he's good, I don't. 

[Crusader1969]

8 hours ago, nfreeman said:

For those advocating a trade for Saros, Hart or Demko — would you give up any of:

- 2023 first-rounder (assuming low to mid teens)

- Kulich

- Savoie

- Östlund

- Levi

- Quinn

- JJP

…because if the answer is “no” for all of them, I don’t think you’re getting one of those goalies.  

I think you are wrong here. 

 

7 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Based on what?

In September 2020, Jake Allen was traded to Montreal for a third-rounder and two sevenths.

At the 2020 deadline, Robin Lehner was sent to Vegas for Malcolm Subban, a prospect and a second-round pick.

And just a couple of weeks before that deadline, the Leafs picked up Jack Campbell (and Kyle Clifford) for Trevor Moore and a couple of third-rounders.

Alex Nedeljkovic, a 25-year-old at the time coming off a Calder finalist season, returned only Jonathan Bernier and a third-rounder to Carolina.

Darcy Kuemper trade to Colorado, they gave up Conor Timmins and a first-round pick.

Why is everyone thinking the Sabres would have to give up a 1st and two high prospects for Hart or Demko or even Saros?

Thank you!!! 

[Pimlach]

Reading some interesting stuff here.  

I don’t see Adams giving up three assets (2 of which are first round equivalents) for any of these goalies, Demko, Hart, or Saros. I have not watched enough of any of them to have a preference - just looking at stats Saros is the best, but team play in front of the goalie is a factor. 

As has been stated, just one first rounder is a rare trade, that is as far as he might go  

On the offer sheet for Swayman, why would he consider Buffalo?  Several risks -  is he really a 1 ?  What is his performance behind our defense?  
 

 

[MattPie]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

Related, but separate thought to my previous post, another thing I hadn't really considered:

If Carter Hart can put up a .914 season as a 21-year-old 1st-time NHL starter in Philly, and Thatcher Demko can put up .915 as a 25-year-old 1st-time NHL starter in Vancouver, is it unreasonable to think Devon Levi or UPL can't do something similar next year in Buffalo?

Not unreasonable, but not something the Sabres want to put all their chips on I think.

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

One other thing that hasn't been discussed here is should the Sabres trade for a starter, if UPL or Levi take off and really come into their own, there is most likely nothing preventing the Sabres from recouping most of the assets they gave up for that goalie as they are far from the only team looking for a legit starting goalie. Either at this deadline or at the next draft.

Its not like bringing somebody in is simply throwing away futures for the present.  Rather it's insurance for the future and improves the present.

I think you'll lose some in the deal. In the Sabres current state, I doubt anyone they bring in has better or even equal numbers to what they have now based on how the Sabres play. Other than wins, I suppose. For another GM, they can reasonably say, "I'm not giving you that much, the numbers have dipped the last N years".

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Reading some interesting stuff here.  

I don’t see Adams giving up three assets (2 of which are first round equivalents) for any of these goalies, Demko, Hart, or Saros. I have not watched enough of any of them to have a preference - just looking at stats Saros is the best, but team play in front of the goalie is a factor. 

As has been stated, just one first rounder is a rare trade, that is as far as he might go  

On the offer sheet for Swayman, why would he consider Buffalo?  Several risks -  is he really a 1 ?  What is his performance behind our defense?  
 

I'd be wary of an offer sheet. We have some pretty serious players coming up that would justify astronomical offer sheets. Best way to derail this thing would be to start having to trade away good players because someone offered Dahlin $13M. Not saying it shouldn't be done, but there may be repercussions.

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

See, I feel the same way about Hart as you feel about Demko.

And that’s the thing about goalies, I think we all have our perceptions based on our exposure and our biases as to what makes a goalie good, and very few of us are watching these other guys night after night after night.

I mean we’ve all watched UPL and Comrie pretty intently this year and I’m willing to bet there is no consensus on this board as to who is better. Listening to Marty Biron it’s clear he prefers Comrie and he clearly knows more about goaltending than me. But I don’t see it, and the numbers clearly back me up.

Statistics aren’t real helpful. You prefer Hart by a wide margin, I prefer Demko by a wide margin. Statistically there is no reason to support either of us.

Statistically, Demko  has played 156 NHL games for a mostly mediocre team and has a 2.92 GAA and a .915 SV % while Hart has played 194 games for a mostly mediocre team with a 2.97 GAA and a .905 SV %. Each has had one outlier abbreviated season with poor numbers.

The sure bets aren’t on the market.

It’s a bit of a crap shoot with the next tier, the guys we’ve been talking about. Are they safe enough to be worth paying a high price? 

I don’t want to be paying Kulich for Hart and I don’t see any reason for the Flyers to take Rosen for him. Is there a happy medium?

And after those guys, are they are they really any better bets than Levi and UPL?

You basically made a convincing argument why KA is very likely going to stay the course and not bring in another goalie. 

[Taro T]

Just now, MattPie said:

Not unreasonable, but not something the Sabres want to put all their chips on I think.

I think you'll lose some in the deal. In the Sabres current state, I doubt anyone they bring in has better or even equal numbers to what they have now based on how the Sabres play. Other than wins, I suppose. For another GM, they can reasonably say, "I'm not giving you that much, the numbers have dipped the last N years".

I'd be wary of an offer sheet. We have some pretty serious players coming up that would justify astronomical offer sheets. Best way to derail this thing would be to start having to trade away good players because someone offered Dahlin $13M. Not saying it shouldn't be done, but there may be repercussions.

Which is why they'd be able to recoup MOST of what they spend on that goalie but not all of it.  And that N in your scenario could very likely be 1 year.  There will be little value lost with a goalie that has a good body of work but wasnt a good fit in a particular destination for a short time.  (See Ryan Miller's Vancouver contract for reference.  He was not a fit in St. Louis but that wasn't held against him.)

[Taro T]

Just now, JohnC said:

You basically made a convincing argument why KA is very likely going to stay the course and not bring in another goalie. 

Would expect the correct word instead of the bolded is "possibly" not necessarily "likely."  Comrie was NOT his 1st choice in the net.  He was rebuffed at a minimum by Murray.  He likely was rebuffed by at least Gibson as well.  And we all know how the negotiations with Ullmark turned out.  He has to be looking for more consistent goaltending than he's gotten.  Whether he can get that for a price he considers palatable remains to be seen.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, MattPie said:

 

I'd be wary of an offer sheet. We have some pretty serious players coming up that would justify astronomical offer sheets. Best way to derail this thing would be to start having to trade away good players because someone offered Dahlin $13M. Not saying it shouldn't be done, but there may be repercussions.

Two things to keep in mind.

Dahlin would have to agree to sign any sheet. I don't see that from him, he's not cut throat like that. 

Second, he would also have to get to RFA which seems unlikely. Signing him long term this summer is undoubtedly a priority. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

Would expect the correct word instead of the bolded is "possibly" not necessarily "likely."  Comrie was NOT his 1st choice in the net.  He was rebuffed at a minimum by Murray.  He likely was rebuffed by at least Gibson as well.  And we all know how the negotiations with Ullmark turned out.  He has to be looking for more consistent goaltending than he's gotten.  Whether he can get that for a price he considers palatable remains to be seen.

No, I stand by my words that it's not likely that the GM will make a deal for a high-end goalie this offseason.  A few of the goalies in the upper tier would require not only giving up a first rounder or two but also require one of our top tier prospects (such as Savoie/I don't consider Rosen to be in the Savoie class) to be included in such a deal. In my opinion, the hesitation comes more from not wanting to give up a premium prospect than draft picks. 

I agree with others here (I think including you?) that the acquisition of a top-shelf goalie would have a major impact on this team. Listening to what KA have said, I believe that he is more inclined to rely on the pipeline that also probably includes Levi. I've said it before that I believe that the GM made a glaring mistake in not signing Ullmark to the contract that the player wanted. The GM's insistence on staying within his established contract boundaries for this particular player was a damaging decision, especially after seeing how this season has unfolded. 

[Zamboni]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No, I stand by my words that it's not likely that the GM will make a deal for a high-end goalie this offseason.  A few of the goalies in the upper tier would require not only giving up a first rounder or two but also require one of our top tier prospects (such as Savoie/I don't consider Rosen to be in the Savoie class) to be included in such a deal. In my opinion, the hesitation comes more from not wanting to give up a premium prospect than draft picks. 

I agree with others here (I think including you?) that the acquisition of a top-shelf goalie would have a major impact on this team. Listening to what KA have said, I believe that he is more inclined to rely on the pipeline that also probably includes Levi. I've said it before that I believe that the GM made a glaring mistake in not signing Ullmark to the contract that the player wanted. The GM's insistence on staying within his established contract boundaries for this particular player was a damaging decision, especially after seeing how this season has unfolded. 

And I don’t believe Ullmark on the 22-23 Bruins would be identical to an Ullmark on the 22-23 Sabres. And I don’t believe Ullmark entertained the idea of staying with the Sabres. I think he just wanted out no matter what.

[Thorner]

If Adams can’t find a goalie more likely to be a 40 game starter next season than a guy who’s never played an NHL game, he’s not trying hard enough 

14 hours ago, irregularly irregular said:

That's the cool thing about KA. It gets out of hand, he gets out. He's not crossing those lines.

Undoubtedly