Let's Make a Deal (Suggestions for K.A. for 2023)

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't the assets, it is are you using them to trade for the a serious upgrade? Hart to me looks like an upgrade but not a really great one. If I am going to spend Rosen, a 2nd and something else, I need something more than Hart. It isn't about winning the trade per say but that Hart just isn't enough of an upgrade. 

For example if Nashville calls and says, we want Rosen, 2024 1st, 2023 2nd, and *insert rochester guy like Weisbach here* I am pulling that trigger. I think it is an overpayment but idc. 

 

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Suggest an alternative maybe instead of just being negative. 

I created this thread for people to put up concrete ideas of how we could become a winner sooner than later. Suggest some deal(s) of your own for making that happen. 

 

But Hart is on the market, Saros is not. 

I did

Edited March 14, 2023 by LGR4GM

[PerreaultForever]

4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Thorny and duda/LGR are both right - the suggested price is too high for my gm to pay, but only because my gm should be able to make a deal for those goalies, supposing their availability is correct, for less than those offers. But he should be willing to overpay a bit to ensure that his net is properly filled. That offer in particular is more than it will take to get Hart by a decent amount. 

This is the thing for me. I'm not going to go in to this (as a GM) expecting to "win" the deal necessarily but to make my team much better and leap forward into the playoffs. You need to seize moments when they present themselves and good goalies on the block don't come around every day.

The Philly black hole thing is true. Bobrovsky was a star when he left. Hart is much better than his stats. He's young. He fits. He's exactly what we need. Most of all, it's POSSIBLE. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Read better

Saros isn't on the trade block, Hart is. 

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is the thing for me. I'm not going to go in to this (as a GM) expecting to "win" the deal necessarily but to make my team much better and leap forward into the playoffs. You need to seize moments when they present themselves and good goalies on the block don't come around every day.

The Philly black hole thing is true. Bobrovsky was a star when he left. Hart is much better than his stats. He's young. He fits. He's exactly what we need. Most of all, it's POSSIBLE. 

I think we all agree with this in principle and are mostly haggling over the particulars of your spitball offer. I bet we could drop Rosen or the first and still get Hart 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Saros isn't on the trade block, Hart is. 

Good read what I wrote again

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

I think we all agree with this in principle and are mostly haggling over the particulars of your spitball offer. I bet we could drop Rosen or the first and still get Hart 

What I'm saying is I'd be willing to go that high. Willing to overpay to make it happen. 

I'm seeing an opportunity to elevate this team substantially and immediately rather than waiting several years and complaining about how close we were and what we needed while waiting for Levi. 

[dudacek]

33 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The supposition being that a trade can only be a good one if it’s in line with the market? 

The entire point is that it’s no good for Adams to remain a slave to the market if the market never produces a viable opportunity. It leaves us in the same place. 

No, actually, I think Im more aligned with your way of thinking, that an overpay is OK under the circumstance if it gets us closer to our goal.

It’s more the degree of overpay I was reacting to. The market dictates a top-of-the-line proven goalie is worth, at the most, 2/3s of what’s being offered.

And that’s on top of the fact Hart is demonstrably far more projection than top-of-the-line goalie.

Make your overpay a little closer to market, or save it for a better bet, like a Saros.

I look at at Perreault’s offer as kinda like offering 2 firsts for Casey Mittlestadt because you loved him as a prospect and he seems to be coming into his own this year.

It’s not inconceivable he could turn into a 60-point scorer and justify the price, but wouldn’t you be better off using those assets to buy a Sam Reinhart or a Bo Horvat? Or get a Anthony Beauvillier for a 2nd?

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by dudacek

[Thorner]

The times Adams has declined to pay the price, and instead “save” them for a better option..say, Ullmark. Murray/Gibson. What was the precedent here? Does Adams seem to fall back to a budget option, or historically land a different, comparable fish? 

Until he establishes that he can come up with a viable plan B, I’m going to pray and advocate for him to find a way to consummate plan A 

[Sabres73]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

We are close. Very close. I don't want to keep waiting for the next one though. Not Levi. Not Rosen. Not Kulich or any of the other prospects. I want to win now and I think the opportunities are there if KA has the stones to make it happen. 

What trades would you make to turn us into a contender in 2023/24? 

My first suggestion is: 

Carter Hart. Whatever it takes in terms of prospects and picks. 

So when we're finally on the right path after over a decade, and ongoing success is right around the corner, you'd derail us. And start the pattern all over again.

I'm completely in agreement with how GMKA is managing the team, and it's not by taking short-cuts.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

What I'm saying is I'd be willing to go that high. Willing to overpay to make it happen. 

I'm seeing an opportunity to elevate this team substantially and immediately rather than waiting several years and complaining about how close we were and what we needed while waiting for Levi. 

And I don't think Hart is a good enough upgrade. I provided an alternative and why he might be on time market this summer but that wasn't good enough for your thread. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

What trades would you make to turn us into a contender in 2023/24? 

Saros

33 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Suggest an alternative maybe instead of just being negative. 

I created this thread for people to put up concrete ideas of how we could become a winner sooner than later. Suggest some deal(s) of your own for making that happen. 

I did saros. For Rosen, 2024 1st, and something else. 

26 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Saros isn't on the trade block, Hart is. 

Okay so I'm only allowed to suggest players you approve of even though I specifically stated that if Nashville rebuilds, I would ask on Saros since they have Askorov.

Got it. Good talk. 

Basically you should change the title to "let's trade for hart"

Edited March 14, 2023 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The times Adams has declined to pay the price, and instead “save” them for a better option..say, Ullmark. Murray/Gibson. What was the precedent here? Does Adams seem to fall back to a budget option, or historically land a different, comparable fish? 

Until he establishes that he can come up with a viable plan B, I’m going to pray and advocate for him to find a way to consummate plan A 

Pretty sure Ullmark was the only instance we know for sure Adams declined to pay the price.

The Murray deal was killed by Murray not Adams, and rumours of the Gibson deal suggest the same.

We also just saw Adams overpay for Greenway, paying the price to get him now, when Minny still had use for him, as opposed to later, when they would be forced by the cap to trade him and he may have been available for less. Bill Guerin made it pretty clear Adams stepped up to make that deal happen, and Greenway’s agent’s comments today to Marty and Duffer seem to support that.

I don’t there is any kind of track record established that he’s strictly a budget shopper.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Saros, Hart, and Demko are all upgrades over the mess we have in goal right now.

Demko, 27, 3 years left at 5 per season - 2021-22 stats 64gp 2.72 and .915.  2022-23 stats 20gp 3.48 .894

Hart, 24, 1 year left at 3.979 (but an RFA) - 2021-22 stats 45gp 3.16 & .905. 2022-23 stats 48gp 2.96 .906

Saros, 27, 2 years left 5 per season - 2021-22 stats 67gp 2.64 & .918. 2022-23 stats 49gp 2.78 . 917

Honestly, KA should kick the tires on all 3 and see what the GMs' want.  I'd be happy with any of the 3.  Demko is probably the "buy low" candidate.  Hart is only 24 and may have huge upside with the right team in front of him and Saros has had the best numbers of the 3.  All are young enough to be the franchise goaltender, but all are also flexible enough contract-wise to be replaced if Levi develops as hoped.  

If KA came away this summer with one of these 3 goalies and Orlov for the defense I'd be a very happy fan.

Edited March 14, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Randall Flagg]

Also worth noting it sounds like Demko has been playing great since return from injury 

[Thorner]

I must have missed the part where we were talking all roster decisions in totality. Do we now NOT think he’s potentially approaching goalie differently / has performed weaker in terms of addressing G than the other positions? Isn’t the entire reason we are talking goalie because it’s one of the only spots on the roster where the results have been *DIFFERENT* to the rest?? Conflating Adams’ work on the roster as a whole to muddy the waters re: precedent isn’t in good faith considering his performance in that area has been demonstrably weaker and I thought that meant we were allowing, for the sake of argument, for the idea one position might be approached differently than others. 

if we think his poor results at goaltending relative to the rest of the roster is purely the result of randomness, and not any kind of blind spot philosophical or otherwise, ya, sure, just keep doing what we do and eventually it’ll fix itself by way of overwhelming process. That’s fine 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Thorny

[Marvin]

44 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

But Hart is on the market, Saros is not. 

Saros was enough on the market that the Kings asked and, according to some Nashville fans, the Predators made a counter-proposal.  Talks apparently ended there.

However, assuming you are correct, I don't see the need to expend three prime assets to get Carter Hart or someone similar.  I will go 1 prime asset and a decent one, but no further.  Alternatively, there should be a hockey trade there which is mutually beneficial.

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Also worth noting it sounds like Demko has been playing great since return from injury 

And I would pay more for Demko.

[Thorner]

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If KA came away this summer with one of these 3 goalies and Orlov for the defense I'd be a very happy fan.

And let this serve as a warning for what we’ll have in store here from you, GA, should he not 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Thorny

[Porous Five Hole]

What if the Sabres threw an offer sheet at Swayman? The cupboard is stocked to make a move like this.  The cost is the cost. Boston would have a hard time committing something like 3.5M to their backup goalie position.  
 

G1 Swayman and G2 UPL for the next 82. Comrie can clean and dry their equipment.   
G1 Swayman and G2 Levi for the 82 after that. UPL can be moved before the season to recoup some of the spent assets on Swayman. 

Best in the crease after that.  
 

I think a top five goal scoring team with two cornerstone D  for the next decade would be pretty attractive to a goalie. 
 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Porous Five Hole

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

And let this serve as a warning for what we’ll have in store here from you, GA, should he not 

I'm ok with many other moves but they should be in the vain of a top 4 D and a starting goalie with tread left on the tire.  Odds are KA won't do either thing I suggest.  He likely won't sign Orlov and likely won't acquire any of the goalies mentioned.  However, those are the 2 gaping holes that need filling.  

Edited March 15, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, Mustache of God said:

Feel like Olofson would really thrive under Tortarella 🙂

It'll be interesting to see if Ol' Torts stays. Philly is playing out the next 4 weeks, and then there will (presumably) be a new GM and that most often means a new coach. But man, that would be a sight to see.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

What if the Sabres threw an offer sheet at Swayman? The cupboard is stocked to make a move like this.  The cost is the cost. Boston would have a hard time committing something like 3.5M to their backup goalie position.  
 

G1 Swayman and G2 UPL for the next 82. Comrie can clean and dry their equipment.   
G1 Swayman and G2 Levi for the 82 after that. UPL can be moved before the season to recoup some of the spent assets on Swayman. 

Best in the crease after that.  
 

I think a top five goal scoring team with two cornerstone D  for the next decade would be pretty attractive to a goalie. 
 

 

And the Sabres finally have all of their top 3 picks in '24 and also '25 which means they can make any size offer sheet they want these next 2 years.  They're finally past the Botterill era of '3rd round picks, we don' need no stinkin' 3rd round picks' not when we can get studs like Jimmy Vesey for them.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

What if the Sabres threw an offer sheet at Swayman? The cupboard is stocked to make a move like this.  The cost is the cost. Boston would have a hard time committing something like 3.5M to their backup goalie position.  
 

G1 Swayman and G2 UPL for the next 82. Comrie can clean and dry their equipment.   
G1 Swayman and G2 Levi for the 82 after that. UPL can be moved before the season to recoup some of the spent assets on Swayman. 

Best in the crease after that.  
 

I think a top five goal scoring team with two cornerstone D  for the next decade would be pretty attractive to a goalie. 
 

 

Inteesting thought.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

You guys are insane.

Never mind how good he is or not, doesnt anyone pay attention to the market?

The issue of striving for success is not so much about the market value as it is what does the transaction do for your team. There are transactions for player/s that one could say is too much for one team and for another team the value of the transaction is worth more. Would I give up a first-round pick and Rosen for a goalie such as Soros? Without any hesitation. For another team the departing assets wouldn't make sense. Ask yourself, if we had a Soras or Ullmark as our primary goalie this year, would the Sabres be a playoff team? I say yes. 

Would KA consider such a deal for a goalie? I don't think so. I believe he is resolute in staying the course and for the most part working from within. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I must have missed the part where we were talking all roster decisions in totality. Do we now NOT think he’s potentially approaching goalie differently / has performed weaker in terms of addressing G than the other positions? Isn’t the entire reason we are talking goalie because it’s one of the only spots on the roster where the results have been *DIFFERENT* to the rest?? Conflating Adams’ work on the roster as a whole to muddy the waters re: precedent isn’t in good faith considering his performance in that area has been demonstrably weaker and I thought that meant we were allowing, for the sake of argument, for the idea one position might be approached differently than others. 

if we think his poor results at goaltending relative to the rest of the roster is purely the result of randomness, and not any kind of blind spot philosophical or otherwise, ya, sure, just keep doing what we do and eventually it’ll fix itself by way of overwhelming process. That’s fine 

I hadn't really considered that he was approaching the goaltending position differently than others.

Now that you bring it up, I just automatically assumed his approach would be the same to each roster position.

Thinking out loud, it may be that his struggles in the crease are the result of thinking UPL and Devon Levi are on similar tracks to their peers on forward and defence, when their runways are much longer and their landings much harder to stick: basically he's isn't approaching it differently, and maybe he should?

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Related, but separate thought to my previous post, another thing I hadn't really considered:

If Carter Hart can put up a .914 season as a 21-year-old 1st-time NHL starter in Philly, and Thatcher Demko can put up .915 as a 25-year-old 1st-time NHL starter in Vancouver, is it unreasonable to think Devon Levi or UPL can't do something similar next year in Buffalo?