1980's All Star NHL Team vs. Today's All Star College Team ---Who would win?

[bob_sauve28]

Some of you guys somewhere had this argument and it really struck me. Then this morning they were talking about Levi coming out of college and they talked about how Barrasso came right out of High School and won the Calder. I could never see that happening now. 

 

Ok, I get the rules are VERY different, as is the equipment and even the culture of the game. So it's kind of impossible to compare, but anyway, who do you think would win? 

 

 

[ddaryl]

NHL players every single time

[LGR4GM]

College. As stated before the speed, strength, and specifically the goalies are so much more advanced than the 1980s. I went back and watched a game from 1983 and I was surprised how slow it looked. 

[Porous Five Hole]

I think it is the college kids and the reason is 80’s goaltending (and more defensive structured play of today).
 
The winningest goalie of the decade is Mike Liut.  His GAA was 3.51 and his save percentage was .883. As a matter of fact, no one who played the majority of their career in the 80’s had a save percentage at or above .900.  Patrick Roy was close (.898). 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Porous Five Hole

[Buffalonill]

College  team has no chance 

[bob_sauve28]

The 1980 Olympic team was just college guys, and they beat a real good Russian team full of veteran men 

[JoeSchmoe]

Here's what I posted in the last schmozzle... I still think the right answer lies somewhere therein.

--------------------------

By the eye test, I think the kids win easily... But with this logic string, I pause for thought...

Still today, an aging Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin are two of the best players in the NHL. When they were in their young primes, aging veterans like Jagr, Thornton, and Iginla right there with them.

Then when you look at those same aging veterans in their young primes, there were aging veterans that were right there with them (or even better- Lemieux, Sakic, Forsberg, etc). The cycle continues back to 1983.

The game has no doubt evolved, and so do players and equipment, but I think by my logic, the difference is closer than the eye test would lead us to believe... Especially(!) if we're comparing NCAA players to NHL players.

[bob_sauve28]

If they played the clutching and grabbing style of the 1980's I'm pretty sure the NHLer's would win, but if it was our rules today the college kids would probably win with about 7 PP goals a game 

[Contempt]

Whose rules are we using? The 1980 rules with no instigator penalties and a more relaxed attitude towards physical abuse in general or the modern rules where slashing, hooking, and holding are called much more liberally?

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Here's what I posted in the last schmozzle... I still think the right answer lies somewhere therein.

--------------------------

By the eye test, I think the kids win easily... But with this logic string, I pause for thought...

Still today, an aging Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin are two of the best players in the NHL. When they were in their young primes, aging veterans like Jagr, Thornton, and Iginla right there with them.

Then when you look at those same aging veterans in their young primes, there were aging veterans that were right there with them (or even better- Lemieux, Sakic, Forsberg, etc). The cycle continues back to 1983.

The game has no doubt evolved, and so do players and equipment, but I think by my logic, the difference is closer than the eye test would lead us to believe... Especially(!) if we're comparing NCAA players to NHL players.

By this logic though you can say that a 1980 Jeep is the same as a 2023 jeep because if you go back 10 years the 2013 isn't that much different than the 2023 and then the 2003 isn't that much different and so on and so forth. It just ignores the incremental changes and the players themselves evolving with them over time. 

[JoeSchmoe]

46 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

By this logic though you can say that a 1980 Jeep is the same as a 2023 jeep because if you go back 10 years the 2013 isn't that much different than the 2023 and then the 2003 isn't that much different and so on and so forth. It just ignores the incremental changes and the players themselves evolving with them over time. 

Disagree. It's not the same. 

Edit- Quick search yields a 2003 Wrangler has a max HP of 190. 2013 has 285. At no point could those to match up. 

In 2013 Martin St Louis led the league in scoring at the age of 37. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by JoeSchmoe

[bob_sauve28]

9 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Disagree. It's not the same. 

Autos are changing faster than human hockey players, yes 

[GASabresIUFAN]

You have some proxies to see how the 1980's or early 90's players might look today through their sons.

Mike Foligno was a rugged but skilled forward who put up 60-80 points annually.  His boys, one got more of the scoring and one got the rugged, but both have had nice NHL careers. 

The Tkachuks, the Nylanders, and the Stastnys are other examples.  Some better and some worse than their dads, but some really good players.  

Ultimately, given modern training and equipment, especially the sticks, the 80's all-stars would dominate the college kids.  

 

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You have some proxies to see how the 1980's or early 90's players might look today through their sons.

Mike Foligno was a rugged but skilled forward who put up 60-80 points annually.  His boys, one got more of the scoring and one got the rugged, but both have had nice NHL careers. 

The Tkachuks, the Nylanders, and the Stastnys are other examples.  Some better and some worse than their dads, but some really good players.  

Ultimately, given modern training and equipment, especially the sticks, the 80's all-stars would dominate the college kids.  

 

They don't get modern training though. If they did, then it would be would the 2023 NHL All Stars beat the 2023 NCAA All Stars and there isn't a conversation. Everyone who is older has this belief that their heroes form 1983 could just step into the NHL and be fine, they wouldn't. 

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Disagree. It's not the same. 

Edit- Quick search yields a 2003 Wrangler has a max HP of 190. 2013 has 285. At no point could those to match up. 

In 2013 Martin St Louis led the league in scoring at the age of 37. 

Im glad you proved my point. 

St Louis had alllllll  the incremental improvements from 190hp to 285hp because he was constantly being challenged by better players. the 1983 all stars don't have 15 years of playing against incrementally better players. They just step out as the 1983 all stars. 

It is amazing that everyone being like "OOOOO OOOOO the 1983 guys are better!" then have to add a bunch of caveats about training and getting better in the modern the NHL. Yea, that's the point, if I got in a time machine and put the 1983 all star team on the ice with a bunch of 2023 college kids, the college kids would smoke them. They are bigger, faster, stronger, smarter players because the game as evolved. 

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I think it is the college kids and the reason is 80’s goaltending (and more defensive structured play of today).
 
The winningest goalie of the decade is Mike Liut.  His GAA was 3.51 and his save percentage was .883. As a matter of fact, no one who played the majority of their career in the 80’s had a save percentage at or above .900.  Patrick Roy was close (.898). 

This right here pretty much ends the argument. 

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They don't get modern training though. If they did, then it would be would the 2023 NHL All Stars beat the 2023 NCAA All Stars and there isn't a conversation. Everyone who is older has this belief that their heroes form 1983 could just step into the NHL and be fine, they wouldn't. 

Fine, take away the training for the old timers but let the kids have it.  But put them all in the equipment from back then, and the 80's guys win hands down.

[Sabres73]

Men against boys

[JoeSchmoe]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Im glad you proved my point. 

St Louis had alllllll  the incremental improvements from 190hp to 285hp because he was constantly being challenged by better players. the 1983 all stars don't have 15 years of playing against incrementally better players. They just step out as the 1983 all stars. 

It is amazing that everyone being like "OOOOO OOOOO the 1983 guys are better!" then have to add a bunch of caveats about training and getting better in the modern the NHL. Yea, that's the point, if I got in a time machine and put the 1983 all star team on the ice with a bunch of 2023 college kids, the college kids would smoke them. They are bigger, faster, stronger, smarter players because the game as evolved. 

This right here pretty much ends the argument. 

?

[Marvin]

That depends.  Does Guy Lafleur show up to the rink late because he was engaged all night and then smoke during intermission?  Do the 1980's players get to train in the off-season instead of working summer jobs?  Do they still have faux-leather skates and wooden sticks?  Does their goaltending equipment still absorb water so that each pad weighs 10 pounds more after the game?

I don't think people realise how different pro sports are now compared to then.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, JoeSchmoe said:

?

What's hard to follow? St Louis was the 190hp jeep when he came into the league. Because he has access to all the upgrades each year, he built himself into the 285hp jeep. The 1980 team doesn't get that. You are missing the GIANT fundamental flaw in your argument. St Louis wasn't the player at 37 he was at 25 because he had alll those years of experience playing against the incrementally improving players flowing into the league. Versus the 1980 team having to make a 40 year jump in skill immediately. 

[JoeSchmoe]

One other eye test thing.

My son is a 15yo AAA player. He's done development skates and non-contact pickup with members of Canada's Women's National Team.  

During the development skates, the women look much more polished with far more refined edges and finesse. During the pick-up/gameplay, the women struggle hard against the 15yo AAA boys and are completely outclassed.

I think you'd see the same thing with the 80s men vs '23 college players. 

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What's hard to follow? St Louis was the 190hp jeep when he came into the league. Because he has access to all the upgrades each year, he built himself into the 285hp jeep. The 1980 team doesn't get that. You are missing the GIANT fundamental flaw in your argument. St Louis wasn't the player at 37 he was at 25 because he had alll those years of experience playing against the incrementally improving players flowing into the league. Versus the 1980 team having to make a 40 year jump in skill immediately. 

Dude... You're reaching.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

The 1980 Olympic team was just college guys, and they beat a real good Russian team full of veteran men 

Once. 
 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Once. 
 

After getting crushed about 10 days prior.

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

One other eye test thing.

My son is a 15yo AAA player. He's done development skates and non-contact pickup with members of Canada's Women's National Team.  

During the development skates, the women look much more polished with far more refined edges and finesse. During the pick-up/gameplay, the women struggle hard against the 15yo AAA boys and are completely outclassed.

I think you'd see the same thing with the 80s men vs '23 college players. 

Dude... You're reaching.

No you don't understand and don't have a desire to. You think that because you can say that every 10 years the entire league isn't new players that it proves a guy from 1983 would be magically good if teleported to 2023. They wouldn't. 

Also what a ludicrous example. You literally cannot fathom the gulf between the 1983 players and 2023 players. 

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

No you don't understand and don't have a desire to. You think that because you can say that every 10 years the entire league isn't new players that it proves a guy from 1983 would be magically good if teleported to 2023. They wouldn't. 

Also what a ludicrous example. You literally cannot fathom the gulf between the 1983 players and 2023 players. 

Gulf?  Yawning chasm would be my guess.