Tuch should be captain next year

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

And all SUCKED under Ralph's and JBot's tenure. Absolute coaching malpractice.

This is gonna be a thing now eh 

Dahlin was REALLY good under Botterill

Cozens did not play under Botterill. He played all of 41 games, as a rookie, under Adams and Krueger 

Power did not play under either 

Samuelsson did not play under either 

Thompson played all of 60 games under botterill, one season, at 20 years old ie a totally undeveloped player 

- - -

Botterill was a bad GM. These players didn’t flounder under Botterill, though. Plenty didn’t play and the ones that did (Dahlin) generally played really well. 

Everyone had a really bad (short) season in the covid year under Krueger. Adams as GM. Even Adams had a bad year. Of course Krueger wasn’t a good coach. More and more that season looks like an anomaly re: any production or lack thereof within it 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Thorny

[That Aud Smell]

I agree with those opining that management is looking for Dahlin to be the next captain. It sure seems that way. (Quick thought to the contrary: Maybe Dahlin was the author of the open letter because he's been here throughout a lot of the suckitude, not because he's the presumed next Captain?)

If it were a truly open competition and I was choosing (neither appear to be the case), I'd go with Cozens. His activity on that 3rd period power play last night had me thinking along that line. He was worth 2 skaters for most of that third period. What a competitor.

As for Tuch, our erstwhile fellow poster had a funny take on the matter last night:

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JohnC said:

You are looking at the trading of the old core with too small of a lens. You need to have a broader perspective.  It's not only about who you got back, although the additions of Tuch and Krebs are a plus. You also have to look at the trade that dealt the old core and how those departures affected the roles of the players who remained. Without question, the dynamic of the team has changed dramatically with multiple players stepping up and filling the vacuum. The Jack team did have a different vibe from this Dahlin/Thompson/Tuch team. In a team sport the internal dynamic is a significant factor in winning. You may have not noticed it but there was and is a change in it for the good. 

I was calling for the tear down long before it happened. I got scoffed at many times for dumping on Eichel Reinhart and (to a lesser extent) Risto. So yes, I was glad it finally happened and it was the right thing to do. Personally I don't think Jbot was allowed to make moves like that. I think ownership changed their mind when Eichel started bitching. They just had enough of him and gave KA the green light to tear down and start over. 

So ya, the tank/Eichel draft F'd this team for a decade. We finally look like a hockey team again. KA is at the helm for that so he gets credit, but ultimately I think it's Pegula that changed his mind. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I kinda doubt anyone that took the time to formulate their opinion in good faith is going to throw it out the window based on...one game. As much as every game around here has to be a referendum on everything, everywhere, all at once 

Imagine a multiverse where we didn't trade Eichel....................

 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Imagine a multiverse where we didn't trade Eichel....................

 

And the multiverse where we never dealt Eichel OR O’Reilly

[JohnC]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

I was calling for the tear down long before it happened. I got scoffed at many times for dumping on Eichel Reinhart and (to a lesser extent) Risto. So yes, I was glad it finally happened and it was the right thing to do. Personally I don't think Jbot was allowed to make moves like that. I think ownership changed their mind when Eichel started bitching. They just had enough of him and gave KA the green light to tear down and start over. 

So ya, the tank/Eichel draft F'd this team for a decade. We finally look like a hockey team again. KA is at the helm for that so he gets credit, but ultimately I think it's Pegula that changed his mind. 

I don't think you will get many dissenters from the proposition that Pegula screwed up in directing this franchise when he took it over. This franchise was ping ponging back and forth with foolish deals and the constant churning of staff. That ignominious period has been well documented. What I can say is that when KA took over he had a plan and for the past couple to three years has systematically and successfully executed his plan. I also believe that Pegula was on board with KA's rebuild plan when he hired him, and that since his installation Pegula has not interfered with the operation other than being kept informed and signed off of contracts. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Tuch will be the inspiration for this team with or without a letter.

The C will go to Dahlin if KO retires or goes to play elsewhere.  I think he will retire.

Tuch may will likely get an A, but he will not need it to lead this team.

I would rather see Cozens get the A and Girgs who I think will resign for 2 years.

Maybe Girgs will have the every game A and Tuch and Cozens will split the other A home and away or something.

Tage will score goals either way.  Same with Skinny.

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Tuch will be the inspiration for this team with or without a letter.

The C will go to Dahlin if KO retires or goes to play elsewhere.  I think he will retire.

Tuch may will likely get an A, but he will not need it to lead this team.

I would rather see Cozens get the A and Girgs who I think will resign for 2 years.

Maybe Girgs will have the every game A and Tuch and Cozens will split the other A home and away or something.

Tage will score goals either way.  Same with Skinny.

As you are pointing out, there are a number of players who won't have a letter on their jersey who are still leaders on ice and in the locker room. As far as I'm concerned, the issue of who is going to wear the letter is not a big issue at all. Okposo was once asked about being assigned with the letter C or A after the Jack era. He said whether he is wearing the letter or not he is going to conduct himself exactly in the same way on the ice or in the room. A leader is a leader. What's a good sign is that the discussion revolves around a number of people who would be quality candidates to wear the designation. 

[triumph_communes]

Girgs needs to go on, not get a letter lol

[BUFtoNCfan]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:55 PM, JKB1646 said:

Tuch "C" is a big YES! Dahlin an "A" no. I would rather see Cousins 

This is an interesting topic. Cozens has expressed an interest in leadership and appears to walk the walk. Love Dahlin, but haven’t heard about leadership off the ice. He definitely seems more vocal, which I think is important in a leader. But I’m with you, Tuch for our next Captain, Cozens gets an A. The other A to Thompson or Dahlin. But only after Zegmus and Kyle are retired or traded, although I don’t like trading leadership. Hopefully it falls into place with timing.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, BUFtoNCfan said:

This is an interesting topic. Cozens has expressed an interest in leadership and appears to walk the walk. Love Dahlin, but haven’t heard about leadership off the ice. He definitely seems more vocal, which I think is important in a leader. But I’m with you, Tuch for our next Captain, Cozens gets an A. The other A to Thompson or Dahlin. But only after Zegmus and Kyle are retired or traded, although I don’t like trading leadership. Hopefully it falls into place with timing.

Do ppl not realize that Dahlin is already an assistant? He already has an A.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Do ppl not realize that Dahlin is already an assistant? He already has an A.

Yes, he wears the A.  Most teams have at least 1 D-man wear a letter.  He is clearly the leader of that group.  What does that have to do with anything regarding whether they give somebody else the C when Okposo is no longer the Captain?

Lots of teams change up who wears a letter in any one season and guys that haven't worn letters get them and even sometimes guys with letters don't have them the next year.  Jim Schoenfeld was still with the Sabres for a few years after the C was taken from him and given to Gare.

Not saying Dahlin will lose his letter, he absolutely won't.  And he might even be the next captain.  But those 2 games that the team quit stand out like a sore thumb and the only leader on the team that wasn't involved in either game is the guy that's the subject of this thread.  That resonated here.  

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yes, he wears the A.  Most teams have at least 1 D-man wear a letter.  He is clearly the leader of that group.  What does that have to do with anything regarding whether they give somebody else the C when Okposo is no longer the Captain?

Lots of teams change up who wears a letter in any one season and guys that haven't worn letters get them and even sometimes guys with letters don't have them the next year.  Jim Schoenfeld was still with the Sabres for a few years after the C was taken from him and given to Gare.

Not saying Dahlin will lose his letter, he absolutely won't.  And he might even be the next captain.  But those 2 games that the team quit stand out like a sore thumb and the only leader on the team that wasn't involved in either game is the guy that's the subject of this thread.  That resonated here.  

It has to do with the common thread around here that "maybe, idk, kinda, if we have to, we can give Dahlin an A but he's not a leader" which seems to be cropping up.

Dahlin already has an A. They aren't taking it away. 

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Not saying Dahlin will lose his letter, he absolutely won't.  And he might even be the next captain.  But those 2 games that the team quit stand out like a sore thumb and the only leader on the team that wasn't involved in either game is the guy that's the subject of this thread.  That resonated here.  

No, it provided confirmation bias here. Everyone forgets the games Dahlin missed too.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It has to do with the common thread around here that "maybe, idk, kinda, if we have to, we can give Dahlin an A but he's not a leader" which seems to be cropping up.

Dahlin already has an A. They aren't taking it away. 

No, it provided confirmation bias here. Everyone forgets the games Dahlin missed too.

To the bolded, yes, it literally was stated that he absolutely won't lose his letter in the post you quoted.

And, where are there posts that Dahlin ISN'T a leader.  Haven't seen any.  Believe that he is a leader and would be in this kid's top 3 for getting the C after Okposo is no longer the captain.  Have even said on numerous occasions that he very well could get the C next.  But IMHO there is a better choice for that honor.

And yes, Dahlin also did not play in the Bruins game.  But he certainly was a part of the Dallas game which was the other one they quit in.  Again, Tuch was the only leader on the team that wasn't involved in EITHER of those 2 games.  And that resonates.

[nfreeman]

Based on the limited info the fans have, I'd give the C to Tuch, but I think Dahlin is a very respectable choice as well.

I expect it to go to Dahlin.

I think it's 50/50 whether KO will return.  If KO wants to return, I think the Sabres, out of respect, would probably keep him on as C and give him a 1-year extension for about $2MM, which is more than he'd get anywhere else.  I kinda doubt he'd join another team for the vet minimum, which is more or less what he'd get elsewhere.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, yes, it literally was stated that he absolutely won't lose his letter in the post you quoted.

And, where are there posts that Dahlin ISN'T a leader.  Haven't seen any.  Believe that he is a leader and would be in this kid's top 3 for getting the C after Okposo is no longer the captain.  Have even said on numerous occasions that he very well could get the C next.  But IMHO there is a better choice for that honor.

And yes, Dahlin also did not play in the Bruins game.  But he certainly was a part of the Dallas game which was the other one they quit in.  Again, Tuch was the only leader on the team that wasn't involved in EITHER of those 2 games.  And that resonates.

Yes it resonated as confirmation bias. Tuch returned and we won so it must be him. I don't believe that. 

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes it resonated as confirmation bias. Tuch returned and we won so it must be him. I don't believe that. 

That WAS NOT WHAT WAS SAID. Talk about bias.

What was said was that the team quit in 2 games.  There was only 1 leader on the team not involved in either game.  That is the person that should be captain. (What was said in an earlier post was that the team quit in 2 games in the past 2 seasons.  Both happened within a week of each other.  Other than 1 of the goalies (Anderson) and quite possibly Bryson &/or Clague only 1 player on the team wasn't involved in either game.  And that person was Tuch.)

And before you come back with "well, you said that in the game day thread" well, yes, something similar was stated there.  But go back and read THIS entire thread.  That point doesn't come up once.  Not from this kid at any rate.  There are several players that could make fine captains for the Sabres.  IMHO the best of those options is Alex Tuch.  And the selling points that put him into that discussion are he's a leader, a very good player, sweats the small details, has bled Sabres colors since he was a small child, and the point that puts him over the top IMHO is that the team has NEVER quit when Tuch has been in the lineup but they did for the only 2 times in the past 2 years in 2 of the 8 games he was out with injury.  He literally is the only one of those candidates for captain that it can be said that the Sabres never quit while he was there.  Every other one was in one of those games and most were in both.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Taro T

[TageMVP]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Do ppl not realize that Dahlin is already an assistant? He already has an A.

Alternate 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Taro T said:

That WAS NOT WHAT WAS SAID. Talk about bias.

What was said was that the team quit in 2 games.  There was only 1 leader on the team not involved in either game.  That is the person that should be captain. (What was said in an earlier post was that the team quit in 2 games in the past 2 seasons.  Both happened within a week of each other.  Other than 1 of the goalies (Anderson) and quite possibly Bryson &/or Clague only 1 player on the team wasn't involved in either game.  And that person was Tuch.)

And before you come back with "well, you said that in the game day thread" well, yes, something similar was stated there.  But go back and read THIS entire thread.  That point doesn't come up once.  Not from this kid at any rate.  There are several players that could make fine captains for the Sabres.  IMHO the best of those options is Alex Tuch.  And the selling points that put him into that discussion are he's a leader, a very good player, sweats the small details, has bled Sabres colors since he was a small child, and the point that puts him over the top IMHO is that the team has NEVER quit when Tuch has been in the lineup but they did for the only 2 times in the past 2 years in 2 of the 8 games he was out with injury.  He literally is the only one of those candidates for captain that it can be said that the Sabres never quit while he was there.  Every other one was in one of those games and most were in both.

We don't agree. Maybe you should think about that before you respond again. It isn't about semantics even though you want it to be. We simply don't agree. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

We don't agree. Maybe you should think about that before you response again. 

How does one response again?

 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

How does one response again?

 

🚫  and blocked. Maybe I'll see you in a few weeks. 

[Taro T]

@LGR4GM a less flippant response follows.

No, we don't agree which is perfectly fine.  This place would be extremely dull if everyone did agree on all items.

But what isn't perfectly fine and makes discussion difficult is when one person latches onto a belief that something was said but it wasn't and continues to argue against that thing that wasn't said.  NEVER said that the win was strictly because Tuch was back.  (Even in throwing you the bone that something similar to that was said in the game day thread, it wasn't.  What was actually said was "a Tuch led team never quits."  They are actually quite different statements, but again was throwing you a bone there in saying they were essentially the same.)

What was said, several times now, is that the team has never quit with Tuch on the ice but it has when he hasn't been there.  And personally, want the guy wearing that letter to be the guy that's never been a part of a game where they have quit.   This team is very fortunate to have several natural leaders on it.  Dahlin is one of them.  And Dahlin is a better player than Tuch is.  There's a reason he went to the ASG and Tuch didn't.  That said, the best player, even when he's a leader, isn't necessarily the best leader.

And never said any of the other things you were arguing against either.  Thought my posts were quite clear.  Not sure how to make them any clearer.   It's probably for the best that you aren't going to respond for a couple of weeks.  Regards.

[LGR4GM]

I just hoped you realized I was being facetious when I posted the "blocked" thing. 

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

@LGR4GM a less flippant response follows.

No, we don't agree which is perfectly fine.  This place would be extremely dull if everyone did agree on all items.

But what isn't perfectly fine and makes discussion difficult is when one person latches onto a belief that something was said but it wasn't and continues to argue against that thing that wasn't said.  NEVER said that the win was strictly because Tuch was back.  (Even in throwing you the bone that something similar to that was said in the game day thread, it wasn't.  What was actually said was "a Tuch led team never quits."  They are actually quite different statements, but again was throwing you a bone there in saying they were essentially the same.)

What was said, several times now, is that the team has never quit with Tuch on the ice but it has when he hasn't been there.  And personally, want the guy wearing that letter to be the guy that's never been a part of a game where they have quit.   This team is very fortunate to have several natural leaders on it.  Dahlin is one of them.  And Dahlin is a better player than Tuch is.  There's a reason he went to the ASG and Tuch didn't.  That said, the best player, even when he's a leader, isn't necessarily the best leader.

And never said any of the other things you were arguing against either.  Thought my posts were quite clear.  Not sure how to make them any clearer.   It's probably for the best that you aren't going to respond for a couple of weeks.  Regards.

I see you didn't. Shame. 

[Taro T]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I just hoped you realized I was being facetious when I posted the "blocked" thing. 

Did not.  Glad that you didn't take the discussion that personally.  It wasn't meant to be.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

@LGR4GM a less flippant response follows.

No, we don't agree which is perfectly fine.  This place would be extremely dull if everyone did agree on all items.

But what isn't perfectly fine and makes discussion difficult is when one person latches onto a belief that something was said but it wasn't and continues to argue against that thing that wasn't said.  NEVER said that the win was strictly because Tuch was back.  (Even in throwing you the bone that something similar to that was said in the game day thread, it wasn't.  What was actually said was "a Tuch led team never quits."  They are actually quite different statements, but again was throwing you a bone there in saying they were essentially the same.)

What was said, several times now, is that the team has never quit with Tuch on the ice but it has when he hasn't been there.  And personally, want the guy wearing that letter to be the guy that's never been a part of a game where they have quit.   This team is very fortunate to have several natural leaders on it.  Dahlin is one of them.  And Dahlin is a better player than Tuch is.  There's a reason he went to the ASG and Tuch didn't.  That said, the best player, even when he's a leader, isn't necessarily the best leader.

And never said any of the other things you were arguing against either.  Thought my posts were quite clear.  Not sure how to make them any clearer.   It's probably for the best that you aren't going to respond for a couple of weeks.  Regards.

Again, I know what was said. I don't put a lot of faith in the 1 game sample.