Perspective

[Weave]

31 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yep. Goals 2-4 against were all essentially the same thing. Forward gets the puck deep on the D and then passes back to the slot where the D are too deep to defend and the F hasn't filled that space.  

The 7th - 10th goals were uglier and lack of effort/smart play, but those other 3 above just were killers and the Sabres didn't seem to adjust to it until the Stars were content to sit back on their lead.

It’s almost as if teams have film and use it…..

[Marvin]

Remember what I said about teams who rise from the depths with a lot of youth.  Typically, they improve in 2 steps: offence in the first year with a mild improvement in the standings followed by defence in the second year with a marked improvement in the standings.  There are exceptions, but this is far and away the rule.

IMHO, defence will not be emphasised by the coaching staff until next year.

[Believer]

4 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

It is possible to both praise someone and be critical of someone at the same time. Granato deserves praise for what he got out of Dahlin, Thompson, Power, and others. He is average at finding and pushing chemistry. Granato also is bad at line matching, can’t set the tone at home, and doesn’t know how to manage goalies.  It’s just like the Bills we’re never going to make the final step to excellence with Frazier, the Sabres also won’t with Granato.  It’s not just the players who need to develop, the coaches do too, and his commentary last night made it clear he wants to dig his heels in about his weak spots. And the players aren’t dumb, they are going to copy this and wallow in mediocrity.

Agree with your comment… Granato has not demonstrated an ability to manage expectations and consequences that I can see… He has the praise and patience part down… The players love him… Haven’t seen or heard the discipline and tough love applied much…

It’s his first NHL HC opportunity, so he needs to grow with the team… I’m confident he understands this… Yet, DG likes to project a self assurance that seems to lack self awareness of the given reality of Buffalo fans… He needs to show fans it pains him as much as it pains us when we lose…

Would give him two gritty veteran D, a solid veteran goaltender, and just two more seasons to produce a SC contender with this talented core… 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

2 minutes ago, Believer said:

Agree with your comment… Granato has not demonstrated an ability to manage expectations and consequences that I can see… He has the praise and patience part down… The players love him… Haven’t seen or heard the discipline and tough love applied much…

It’s his first NHL HC opportunity, so he needs to grow with the team… I’m confident he understands this… Yet, DG likes to project a self assurance that seems to lack self awareness of the given reality of Buffalo fans… He needs to show fans it pains him as much as it pains us when we lose…

Would give him two gritty veteran D, a solid veteran goaltender, and just two more seasons to produce a SC contender with this talented core… 

We do not know what goes on behind closed doors. A good leader does NOT do public floggings. But do agree with the rest

[Believer]

2 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

We do not know what goes on behind closed doors. A good leader does NOT do public floggings. But do agree with the rest

Wasn’t suggesting public floggings, and certainly not of individuals … Am suggesting when the team plays with little or no effort, DG needs to express disapproval vs dismay in his public comments… Think Cooper does a good job managing approval and disapproval… Let’s call it a DG developmental task.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Just now, Believer said:

Wasn’t suggesting public floggings, and certainly not of individuals … Am suggesting when the team plays with little or no effort, DG needs to express disapproval vs dismay in his public comments… Think Cooper does a good job managing approval and disapproval… Let’s call it a DG developmental task.

On that, we know DG can develop, but unsure what happens after that. Can he figure out the way to break a press against his own players, can he fix PK? Can he fix defense? A lot to still learn about him

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Whenever Anderson isn’t in the lineup, this is by far the youngest team in the league.

This season has been excellent. I’ve seen growth from all the players I need to see growth in. Entertaining and proving that they have talent and scoring capabilities. They won’t forget those skills. Next up is the maturation of defense and strength to win those battles. I’d love for them to get a playoff series and have to work through that level of aggression but games against the Isles are showing them how suffocating it will be when it matters of win or you’re done games.

I wanted the Sabres to be where they are now 5 years ago but alas they changed GMs a couple times and every time you do that you reset the franchise.

I look at Toronto. They can score. But in three of the last 4 years they’re top 10 in defense. These Sabres have that same potential. And once you’re there (playoffs every year) then it’s just a matter of goaltending, staying healthy, puck luck, getting someone or something hot for a series, or getting the breaks when an opponent has a critical injury. Get to the dance and enjoy the crapshoot. This team is learning how to dance quite well.

And go back to any preseason prognostications… the Sabres are on track. They’re young and getting better and better. And that’s good. 

Expectations are on track but honestly, there’s a lot of season left. It’s why I haven’t given up on playoffs. But, frankly, it could get interesting the other way. I feel like finishing strong down the stretch is important no matter what happens. 

We are pacing for 87 points. If they just totally crash here, “disappointing year” is still on the table. Imagine not finishing .500

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

Here's some perspective: If the team goes 5-13 to close out the season (a very real possibility looking at the schedule) we would finish the season with a whopping 3 more points than the previous season. 

 

Ya, this is kinda what I’m getting at. The “ton of progress, though! Process.” narrative isn’t even written for this season yet-  still have to finish up strong. How the team finished last season was (rightfully, imo) used endlessly as support for the progress of the plan, the same value should be put on the finish to this season. 

I’ll be looking at the end result, certainly. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

21 hours ago, Thorny said:

Expectations are on track but honestly, there’s a lot of season left. It’s why I haven’t given up on playoffs. But, frankly, it could get interesting the other way. I feel like finishing strong down the stretch is important no matter what happens. 

We are pacing for 87 points. If they just totally crash here, “disappointing year” is still on the table. Imagine not finishing .500

Agreed. If they plummet from here I’ll be disappointed. But they’re so streaky I don’t see it happening. One day this year they’re going to wake up and not feel any pressure and rattle off 6 of 7 again, even against this schedule of tough matchups. Granted, it’d be a lot easier with Tuch in the lineup and the forwards playing well in their own end. 

[dudacek]

23 hours ago, Believer said:

Agree with your comment… Granato has not demonstrated an ability to manage expectations and consequences that I can see… He has the praise and patience part down… The players love him… Haven’t seen or heard the discipline and tough love applied much…

It’s his first NHL HC opportunity, so he needs to grow with the team… I’m confident he understands this… Yet, DG likes to project a self assurance that seems to lack self awareness of the given reality of Buffalo fans… He needs to show fans it pains him as much as it pains us when we lose…

Would give him two gritty veteran D, a solid veteran goaltender, and just two more seasons to produce a SC contender with this talented core… 

This raises some good questions.

Its obvious that Granato and Adams have adopted a pretty steadfast approach in terms of how they want to manage the psychology of the team in order to shake off the malaise of the past decade.

Does that approach only take us so far? Will adjustments be needed? When? Was Dallas an example of when they should adjust, or a test of their resolve?

Talking strictly people management here, not hockey tactics.

Edited March 11, 2023 by dudacek

[inkman]

On 3/10/2023 at 9:19 AM, bob_sauve28 said:

Tuch getting injured was like ripping the heart out of this team 

It definitely has hurt them immeasurably.  Dahlin being dinged up isn’t helping either.  Dropping Greenway & Stillman into this lineup didn’t suddenly tranform them into a hard to play against team.  It means Tage, Dylan, Samuelsson, Power, Quinn, Peterka are either going to need to understand team hockey or replace them (well not the first 4).  This team has a ton to learn. For once in my miserable life I agree with Paul Hamilton, who may have had his best segment on WGR yesterday.  They are all trying to win games by themselves. When they get behind, they do it even more so. Granato had very pointed comments about this exact thing.  He stated if 5 NHL players are committed to playing defense, one player has zero chance to make it through.  
 

Coddling time is over.  It’s time for these guys to stop swinging their ***** and start playing hockey that wins.  I don’t think effort has been the primary culprit.  It’s learning how to beat NHL players whose sole job is stopping you.  Good news.  Great players usually figure this out in short order.  So I’ll take this season as a learning curve.  Go through the tough times.  Figure out what players are doing to defend you.  Understand how to beat them without doing it all yourself.  
 

Just as Paul stated, they will figure it out. They work hard, are smart and will do the things necessary. It sucks that we the fans have to endure this emotionally turbulent season but they’ll be better for it in the end.  
 

I'm ***** praying to the hockey gods this comes to fruition. 

[Stoner]

You mean to say winning has not been emphasized to these young players so that they can learn the essential lessons of the game?

What steps into that void?

Edited March 11, 2023 by PASabreFan

[inkman]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

You mean to say winning has not been emphasized to these young players so that they can learn the essential lessons of the game?

What steps into that void?

I think this is a little obtuse 

[Stoner]

Just now, inkman said:

I think this is a little obtuse 

If the players know winning is not the goal, yet or ever, what are they playing for? More pointedly who are they playing for?

[Thorner]

53 minutes ago, inkman said:

Coddling time is over.  It’s time for these guys to stop swinging their ***** and start playing hockey that wins.  I don’t think effort has been the primary culprit.  It’s learning how to beat NHL players whose sole job is stopping you.  Good news.  Great players usually figure this out in short order.  So I’ll take this season as a learning curve.  Go through the tough times.  Figure out what players are doing to defend you.  Understand how to beat them without doing it all yourself.  
 

Just as Paul stated, they will figure it out. They work hard, are smart and will do the things necessary. It sucks that we the fans have to endure this emotionally turbulent season but they’ll be better for it in the end.  
 

I'm ***** praying to the hockey gods this comes to fruition. 

The bold is SUCH a salient point. I hope people really think about this 

it’s so, so much easier to succeed when the endgame is merely development, because the opposing team *isnt actively out to hamper the development of the Sabres*. This is so, so key. When you are just trying to “get better” and “evaluate”, the opposing team isn’t in opposition to that! Hell, they’ll *actively learn ya!” 

Transitioning to winning is so hard because the other teams aren’t PLAYING in a development league. They are actively targeting your weaknesses to achieve a result. Until we choose to prioritize the RESULT, we won’t learn to *achieve* said result with consistency

thank you for that head clearing post, in sincerity   

18 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

If the players know winning is not the goal, yet or ever, what are they playing for? More pointedly who are they playing for?

Absolutely needs to transition to a stated goal next season. 

[Marvin]

Are parts of my problem that 2 of the 25 best winning percentage jumps since WWII were the Buffalo Sabres in their first 5 seasons plus 2 others in the top 50 (1996-7 and 2005-6) and that the Sabres have the 2 biggest recoveries in winning percentage after the All-Star break since the 1992 strike and would have a third at #1 had they not lost the last 2 games of 2011-2?  I think I expect the jumps to be normal instead of being as rare as they are.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Are parts of my problem that 2 of the 25 best winning percentage jumps since WWII were the Buffalo Sabres in their first 5 seasons plus 2 others in the top 50 (1996-7 and 2005-6) and that the Sabres have the 2 biggest recoveries in winning percentage after the All-Star break since the 1992 strike and would have a third at #1 had they not lost the last 2 games of 2011-2?  I think I expect the jumps to be normal instead of being as rare as they are.

This reminds me of what SS legend darksabre used to say about goaltending. Having great GT for so long...goalie purgatory just feels wrong 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

If the players know winning is not the goal, yet or ever, what are they playing for? More pointedly who are they playing for?

They are playing to win. What worked (highlight reel offense) is now being stifled. They have to figure out how to beat the D.  😈

[Marvin]

8 minutes ago, inkman said:

They are playing to win. What worked (highlight reel offense) is now being stifled. They have to figure out how to beat the D.  😈

Yes.  They need to grow up as hockey players.

[In The Buff]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This reminds me of what SS legend darksabre used to say about goaltending. Having great GT for so long...goalie purgatory just feels wrong 

it definitely feels wrong because when I was a kid & first became a fan, good goaltending was part of our identity. It was part of who we were. And then like so many other things... it just wasn't anymore.

Barrasso thru Miller to these lost years that just. wont. end.

10 years since Miller. 10 freakin years & we finally found one (Ullmark)... only to let him go... for nothing.

yeah it definitely feels wrong

[LTS]

12 hours ago, inkman said:

They are playing to win. What worked (highlight reel offense) is now being stifled. They have to figure out how to beat the D.  😈

Put both hands on the stick and go to work.

 

NOTE: I felt, because it was you making the comment, that I had to reply as such. 🙂

[tom webster]

Haven’t read any of this thread but after a conversation I had a couple days ago, the ticket buying public is pretty optimistic.