Perspective

[WhenWillItEnd66]

"Let me take your order sir"

"I would like an order of perspective"

Well, here it is.....

We have gotten destroyed/embarrassed/badly beaten/outplayed/call it what you will. Boston, Toronto, Isles, Columbus, were all very bad dominant losses. 

In between we also had some good wins and some close losses. The Tampa, Wash, and Florida wins were our best.

We are 3rd in scoring, 27th in GAA, 4th in PP, 31st in PK, and 3rd in PIM. 

For a long time we were the only team in the NHL with 5 20+ scorers. 

We have fixed our scoring problem it seems (Although we have not scored as much when we got dominated.) Dominating teams are all very tight checking teams that do not give space and time. Our players as good as they are in scoring, are not as good as creating their own space and time and we are 100% definitely not good at one on one battles. Against Dallas, from what i watched (Shut it off end of 1st) we could not win one battle on the boards, to get free, or to take away. 

Our goaltending is disgraceful with the exception of Anderson who can only play 1 of every 4 or 5 games. 

Our defense and our forwards have minimum skill of defensive play in our own zone. How many times through the year is someone left open in front of our net? How many times has  forward been in front of our net and we cannot clear them? 

In the offensive zone, we play the perimeter and very rarely go to the front of the net. When we shoot from the perimeter, we either beat the goalie or they make the easy save as not a Sabre is in sight. 

There are some great things with this team, but the same old problems rear their head. I do not care what you have coming up the pipeline, if we do not fix the teams problem, we are just bringing in fresh meat to score more, but fail. 

I know many do not agree, that's ok, it makes the world go round, but i am not wrong here. This team is weak when it comes to the basics of hockey. It is a physical sport. There is a defensive and offensive side. You cannot ignore one over the other. You have to exert the body to win the battles. Swinging the stick does not count and shying away from contact. You have to give to get, they are not giving enough.

 

[Night Train]

Good post.

We are all going to have a different level of " Perspective " .  Mine is the team needs to solve a lot over the summer and into camp with a new scheme.

They don't play D at all, outside of Kyle O, Girgs and Jost. Other 3 lines float too often.  Don't pay the price. 

Need another solid 2-3 Blueliners. 

Goalie situation isn't promising . Levi a year away. 

Special teams ( PP and PK) are not good. 

They learned how to score and that hid a lot of shortcomings to a point. Exposed. 

The step forward was good bu tons more to be done.  I'll view the off-season and see if they have enough sense to face up to the shortcomings and change how they do things. 

 

 

 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Our defense and our forwards have minimum skill of defensive play in our own zone. How many times through the year is someone left open in front of our net? How many times has  forward been in front of our net and we cannot clear them? 

I know many do not agree, that's ok, it makes the world go round, but i am not wrong here. This team is weak when it comes to the basics of hockey. It is a physical sport. There is a defensive and offensive side. You cannot ignore one over the other. You have to exert the body to win the battles. Swinging the stick does not count and shying away from contact. You have to give to get, they are not giving enough.

 

Dylan Cozens.

He is worth his new contract. He looks like he can be a regular 30 goal scorer.  He has a great attitude. He will forecheck and hit. He is very likeable.  But we shouldn't confuse wanting to hit people and being aggressive on the forecheck with being a good 2 way player.  More often than not, he is bad, and I mean BAD with D-zone coverage.  If I wanted to really rub people the wrong way, I'd say his D-zone coverage and his D-zone "IQ" is the foward equivilant of what Risto is/was.  Cozens can still learn and grow, but this offseason the coaches need to flood him with videos of his own play and someone like Bergeron and have him improve that part of his game.

I have watched replays of goals allowed most of this season and posted about a lot of them. Often times, it is Cozens that is over-aggressive in his own zone and leaves spots open where the goals are scored from. He either has no idea who his guy is most of the time, or just can't control his urge to chase the puck.  

Patrice Bergeron is the gold standard for Defensive forwards. He is almost always in position. He doesn't leave his spot to chase a hit.  He will often times give up a big hit for a much smaller one if it means he can stay on his feet and get back into the play. I have seen him often times use his stick instead of making a hit, again so he can get back into the play that .5 seconds faster.  Cozens is the opposite of that. 

AGAIN, Cozens is having a good year and he is definitley a key to this team winning going forward, but he has a LOT Of work to do without the puck in the neutral zone or his own zone without the puck.  Almost every other forward on this team has better positioning than he does. Its not just one game, it is most games.

Edited March 10, 2023 by mjd1001

[WhenWillItEnd66]

35 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Dylan Cozens.

He is worth his new contract. He looks like he can be a regular 30 goal scorer.  He has a great attitude. He will forecheck and hit. He is very likeable.  But we shouldn't confuse wanting to hit people and being aggressive on the forecheck with being a good 2 way player.  More often than not, he is bad, and I mean BAD with D-zone coverage.  If I wanted to really rub people the wrong way, I'd say his D-zone coverage and his D-zone "IQ" is the foward equivilant of what Risto is/was.  Cozens can still learn and grow, but this offseason the coaches need to flood him with videos of his own play and someone like Bergeron and have him improve that part of his game.

I have watched replays of goals allowed most of this season and posted about a lot of them. Often times, it is Cozens that is over-aggressive in his own zone and leaves spots open where the goals are scored from. He either has no idea who his guy is most of the time, or just can't control his urge to chase the puck.  

Patrice Bergeron is the gold standard for Defensive forwards. He is almost always in position. He doesn't leave his spot to chase a hit.  He will often times give up a big hit for a much smaller one if it means he can stay on his feet and get back into the play. I have seen him often times use his stick instead of making a hit, again so he can get back into the play that .5 seconds faster.  Cozens is the opposite of that. 

AGAIN, Cozens is having a good year and he is definitley a key to this team winning going forward, but he has a LOT Of work to do without the puck in the neutral zone or his own zone without the puck.  Almost every other forward on this team has better positioning than he does. Its not just one game it is most games.

There have some very good success stories this year. Tuch, Skinner and Thompson, Cozens, Power, Dahlin, Jost, Krebs.... The future will get better. 

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

There have some very good success stories this year. Tuch, Skinner and Thompson, Cozens, Power, Dahlin, Jost, Krebs.... The future will get better. 

I agree with you on that.  Honestly, I am happy with Cozens overall, I think he is putting up more points and goals than I thought possible. I thought he would max out as a 20-25 goal, 50-60 point guy. He's better than that. My point is that is D-zone and neutral zone coverage is awful.  But that might be a good thing because that is easier to 'fix' (or at least improve) compred to trying to 'teach' someone to score.

As I said in my original post, some people like to think of Cozens as a good 'two-way' guy, and that isn't true. Aggressive skating and willingness to follow up a hit/check doesn't mean he is a good 2 way guy, far from it.  Cozens needs to get better, but his game just may not lend itself ever to being that 2-way shutdown center. The Sabres may need to find someone else to fill that role.

Edited March 10, 2023 by mjd1001

[triumph_communes]

It is possible to both praise someone and be critical of someone at the same time. Granato deserves praise for what he got out of Dahlin, Thompson, Power, and others. He is average at finding and pushing chemistry. Granato also is bad at line matching, can’t set the tone at home, and doesn’t know how to manage goalies.  It’s just like the Bills we’re never going to make the final step to excellence with Frazier, the Sabres also won’t with Granato.  It’s not just the players who need to develop, the coaches do too, and his commentary last night made it clear he wants to dig his heels in about his weak spots. And the players aren’t dumb, they are going to copy this and wallow in mediocrity.

[bob_sauve28]

Tuch getting injured was like ripping the heart out of this team 

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

It is possible to both praise someone and be critical of someone at the same time. Granato deserves praise for what he got out of Dahlin, Thompson, Power, and others. He is average at finding and pushing chemistry. Granato also is bad at line matching, can’t set the tone at home, and doesn’t know how to manage goalies.  It’s just like the Bills we’re never going to make the final step to excellence with Frazier, the Sabres also won’t with Granato.  It’s not just the players who need to develop, the coaches do too, and his commentary last night made it clear he wants to dig his heels in about his weak spots. And the players aren’t dumb, they are going to copy this and wallow in mediocrity.

Frazier was not the HC.  Take a closer look at McDermotts game day coaching, use of timeout, the 13 seconds, the Cinci debacle …

 

[French Collection]

46 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Dylan Cozens.

He is worth his new contract. He looks like he can be a regular 30 goal scorer.  He has a great attitude. He will forecheck and hit. He is very likeable.  But we shouldn't confuse wanting to hit people and being aggressive on the forecheck with being a good 2 way player.  More often than not, he is bad, and I mean BAD with D-zone coverage.  If I wanted to really rub people the wrong way, I'd say his D-zone coverage and his D-zone "IQ" is the foward equivilant of what Risto is/was.  Cozens can still learn and grow, but this offseason the coaches need to flood him with videos of his own play and someone like Bergeron and have him improve that part of his game.

I have watched replays of goals allowed most of this season and posted about a lot of them. Often times, it is Cozens that is over-aggressive in his own zone and leaves spots open where the goals are scored from. He either has no idea who his guy is most of the time, or just can't control his urge to chase the puck.  

Patrice Bergeron is the gold standard for Defensive forwards. He is almost always in position. He doesn't leave his spot to chase a hit.  He will often times give up a big hit for a much smaller one if it means he can stay on his feet and get back into the play. I have seen him often times use his stick instead of making a hit, again so he can get back into the play that .5 seconds faster.  Cozens is the opposite of that. 

AGAIN, Cozens is having a good year and he is definitley a key to this team winning going forward, but he has a LOT Of work to do without the puck in the neutral zone or his own zone without the puck.  Almost every other forward on this team has better positioning than he does. Its not just one game it is most games.

A lot of the goals last night were scored by Stars getting between the D and the forward playing low in support of them. There is definitely room for improvement from Cozens and Krebs. Bergeron is the best and would be who these guys emulate.

Offense needs to flow from creativity, they have a lot of this in them. Defense needs to be taught and requires discipline.

VO is another huge liability in the D zone, poor body position and not willing to engage.

They need to find a balance to get to the next level.

[bob_sauve28]

Just now, Pimlach said:

I sure hope not. Lots of teams play with one key player out.  It’s more normal than not. 

Just a symptom of being the youngest team in the league? 

 

We are still, right? Or did the trades make us older than another team? 

[French Collection]

3 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Just a symptom of being the youngest team in the league? 

 

We are still, right? Or did the trades make us older than another team? 

Greenway and Stillman are in the teams average age, similar to Asplund so I doubt there was much change.

[mjd1001]

9 minutes ago, French Collection said:

A lot of the goals last night were scored by Stars getting between the D and the forward playing low in support of them. There is definitely room for improvement from Cozens and Krebs. Bergeron is the best and would be who these guys emulate.

Offense needs to flow from creativity, they have a lot of this in them. Defense needs to be taught and requires discipline.

VO is another huge liability in the D zone, poor body position and not willing to engage.

They need to find a balance to get to the next level.

As you said about Bergeron, I'd love the Sabres coach to just get an iso camera on him and have the Sabres forwards study him. Show how he can sometimes NOT go for the hit or NOT be too aggressive and those things allow him to maintain positinion. Show them how he uses his stick to make plays, but yet not get called for penalties.

Krebs. I forgot about Krebs.  I think he has gotten better lately, but still not that good, as the first month of the season he may have been the worst forward in the league in terms of being a liability away from the puck.  Again, he seems to be getting better, but he still loses more than half of his battles for loose pucks, and honestly I have seen too many times where he is a step behind an eventual goal scorer and just can't catch up to even get a stuck on him.  He's getting better again, but his limitations on size and speed (maybe not even top end speed but his acceleration) will mean he may never be a great 2-way guy.  If he works on his positioning and reaction he can still get better though.

VO, honestly I don't think he is as bad as everyone says. Is he good?  No, but his giveaways in the D-zone and him chasing the puck and leaving opposing players open isn't as bad as others.  As you said, he may not be willing to engage and he doesn't go to the boards and take the puck away from others, but I don't see him 'give up his spot' that much.   He isn't an asset in the D-zone, but I also don't see him as a huge, mistake making liability.

Edited March 10, 2023 by mjd1001

[GASabresIUFAN]

The truth is this team hasn’t been good against the top teams in the league all season.  

It comes down to a lack of depth on D, and goaltending.  Those areas are also hurt by the system we play. 

This off-season is going to be the biggest challenge of KA’s career.  Expectations have now changed.  He can’t go with the status quo in goal and on defense.  He must make substantive changes.  I would move on from all 3 goalies.  

I also think DG needs to take a close look at his system.  He needs to help the defense.  

I’m not writing them off completely for the playoffs this season.  These guys keep finding ways to surprise, but the changes are needed regardless of whether or not they sneak into the playoffs. 

KA needs to look at what NJ did this summer and try to duplicate what they did to fix their D and G.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[WhenWillItEnd66]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

VO, honestly I don't think he is as bad as everyone says. Is he good?  No, but his giveaways in the D-zone and him chasing the puck and leaving opposing players open isn't as bad as others.  As you said, he may not be willing to engage and he doesn't go to the boards and take the puck away from others, but I don't see him 'give up his spot' that much.   He isn't an asset in the D-zone, but I also don't see him as a huge, mistake making liability.

He is one of the biggest stick checkers that refuses to use his body and show any physicality. If his scoring was more consistent, you would not mind. But when he is on a dry spell and sucking in the defensive zone.... he has got to go

[Pimlach]

16 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Just a symptom of being the youngest team in the league? 

 

We are still, right? Or did the trades make us older than another team? 

Youth and lack of depth for sure.  We are still the youngest team. 

 

I just read something scary, might have been in BN.  It was quoting Adams, he essentially wants this team to be comprised of players the same age, so picking up a 26 year old Greenway was ok for him. 

I hope I misinterpreted that.  I really want him to bring in an experience veteran defenseman for the 4 slot with Power.  A true veteran leader with playoff pedigree.  

[DarthEbriate]

Whenever Anderson isn’t in the lineup, this is by far the youngest team in the league.

This season has been excellent. I’ve seen growth from all the players I need to see growth in. Entertaining and proving that they have talent and scoring capabilities. They won’t forget those skills. Next up is the maturation of defense and strength to win those battles. I’d love for them to get a playoff series and have to work through that level of aggression but games against the Isles are showing them how suffocating it will be when it matters of win or you’re done games.

I wanted the Sabres to be where they are now 5 years ago but alas they changed GMs a couple times and every time you do that you reset the franchise.

I look at Toronto. They can score. But in three of the last 4 years they’re top 10 in defense. These Sabres have that same potential. And once you’re there (playoffs every year) then it’s just a matter of goaltending, staying healthy, puck luck, getting someone or something hot for a series, or getting the breaks when an opponent has a critical injury. Get to the dance and enjoy the crapshoot. This team is learning how to dance quite well.

And go back to any preseason prognostications… the Sabres are on track. They’re young and getting better and better. And that’s good. 

[French Collection]

37 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Youth and lack of depth for sure.  We are still the youngest team. 

 

I just read something scary, might have been in BN.  It was quoting Adams, he essentially wants this team to be comprised of players the same age, so picking up a 26 year old Greenway was ok for him. 

I hope I misinterpreted that.  I really want him to bring in an experience veteran defenseman for the 4 slot with Power.  A true veteran leader with playoff pedigree.  

I think KO is gone so picking up a solid vet to pair with Power could fill the leadership void. Even better would be a vet that has been on a winning team.

[Sidc3000]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Tuch getting injured was like ripping the heart out of this team 

Thats the problem, one player shouldn’t affect this team. It happened in the beginning of the season with muel, it happened when dahlin went out. It should NOT affect them when certain players g out. That shows how mentally weak they are. 

[matter2003]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree with you on that.  Honestly, I am happy with Cozens overall, I think he is putting up more points and goals than I thought possible. I thought he would max out as a 20-25 goal, 50-60 point guy. He's better than that. My point is that is D-zone and neutral zone coverage is awful.  But that might be a good thing because that is easier to 'fix' (or at least improve) compred to trying to 'teach' someone to score.

As I said in my original post, some people like to think of Cozens as a good 'two-way' guy, and that isn't true. Aggressive skating and willingness to follow up a hit/check doesn't mean he is a good 2 way guy, far from it.  Cozens needs to get better, but his game just may not lend itself ever to being that 2-way shutdown center. The Sabres may need to find someone else to fill that role.

I think it's experience of trusting other people to be in the right position and not feel like you have to go do something and leave the area where you are supposed to be.

[Sidc3000]

56 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Youth and lack of depth for sure.  We are still the youngest team. 

 

I just read something scary, might have been in BN.  It was quoting Adams, he essentially wants this team to be comprised of players the same age, so picking up a 26 year old Greenway was ok for him. 

I hope I misinterpreted that.  I really want him to bring in an experience veteran defenseman for the 4 slot with Power.  A true veteran leader with playoff pedigree.  

He is very content with keeping this team  in the same age group so that means very little veteran experience coming. 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

6 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

He is very content with keeping this team  in the same age group so that means very little veteran experience coming. 

I do not think that will happen. I can see some vet help coming. At first i thought KA was not paying attention, but he is keeping an eye on the team and its needs. Hence our new guys. 

[Sidc3000]

4 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

I do not think that will happen. I can see some vet help coming. At first i thought KA was not paying attention, but he is keeping an eye on the team and its needs. Hence our new guys. 

I guess time will tell but I’m not holding my breath. Obviously if they do let okposo go then i would think he would look at finding something to replace him. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, French Collection said:

A lot of the goals last night were scored by Stars getting between the D and the forward playing low in support of them. There is definitely room for improvement from Cozens and Krebs. Bergeron is the best and would be who these guys emulate.

Offense needs to flow from creativity, they have a lot of this in them. Defense needs to be taught and requires discipline.

VO is another huge liability in the D zone, poor body position and not willing to engage.

They need to find a balance to get to the next level.

Yep. Goals 2-4 against were all essentially the same thing. Forward gets the puck deep on the D and then passes back to the slot where the D are too deep to defend and the F hasn't filled that space.  

The 7th - 10th goals were uglier and lack of effort/smart play, but those other 3 above just were killers and the Sabres didn't seem to adjust to it until the Stars were content to sit back on their lead.

[sabremike]

Here's some perspective: If the team goes 5-13 to close out the season (a very real possibility looking at the schedule) we would finish the season with a whopping 3 more points than the previous season. 

 

[Gatorman0519]

I know I get heat but I could care less. Your post is spot on and we will not sniff the playoffs until we not only get a nasty streak, but need a significant roster overall still including finding a franchise goalie. If this is not resolved I have no expectations of making the playoffs next year either. It will be a mirror of this year. What happened yesterday is a disgrace. It’s unforgivable at this point.