Rasmus Dahlin for Norris, 2023

[Stoner]

The LGR Thread Curse strikes again.

[DarthEbriate]

Lebrun did a poll of NHL head coaches about the Norris. 30 of 32 coaches participated: https://theathletic.com/4317444/2023/03/17/nhl-norris-trophy-karlsson-morrissey-fox/   

For Dahlin, the results were... not heartening. Again, if the Sabres had 4 more wins and were holding a wild card spot, Dahlin wasn't injured and was still producing points at a 95-point pace, he'd be taking a lot more of the votes.

Eriksson 13, Morrissey 7, Makar 3, Dahlin 2, McAvoy 2, Lindholm 1, Fox 1, Spurgeon??? 1

Alright... who nominated Spurgeon?

[Thorner]

-12 in last 8 games with 0 points 

-8 since the all star break with 8 points in 16 games 

stick a fork in it 

[Pimlach]

45 minutes ago, Thorny said:

-12 in last 8 games with 0 points 

-8 since the all star break with 8 points in 16 games 

stick a fork in it 

Yes.  You see a regular guy most of the time, then he has a good burst here and there.  
 

His d-zone play is way down.   Something is hurting on him.  I think of the vicious cross check in the back that he took from Paul of Tampa.  Then the next game he was rammed into the crossbar.   He hasn’t been the same since.  

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes.  You see a regular guy most of the time, then he has a good burst here and there.  
 

His d-zone play is way down.   Something is hurting on him.  I think of the vicious cross check in the back that he took from Paul of Tampa.  Then the next game he was rammed into the crossbar.   He hasn’t been the same since.  

Shackling Bryson to him doesn’t help. Will help with his contract though 

[Stoner]

7 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yes.  You see a regular guy most of the time, then he has a good burst here and there.  
 

His d-zone play is way down.   Something is hurting on him.  I think of the vicious cross check in the back that he took from Paul of Tampa.  Then the next game he was rammed into the crossbar.   He hasn’t been the same since.  

And that's the problem with evaluating players in the Sabres context of semi-meaningful games through the New Year or however long it took to anoint him the best defenseman in the game. How in the world is Rasmus Dahlin going to survive four rounds in the playoffs and be elite? Champions reveal themselves as the skating dead when it's all over. They are worn to a nub. No one is healthy. We simply still don't know if he can survive that gauntlet, if he's that breed of cat. Good news for Ras Fans... We may never know.

[mjd1001]

22 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

And that's the problem with evaluating players in the Sabres context of semi-meaningful games through the New Year or however long it took to anoint him the best defenseman in the game. How in the world is Rasmus Dahlin going to survive four rounds in the playoffs and be elite? Champions reveal themselves as the skating dead when it's all over. They are worn to a nub. No one is healthy. We simply still don't know if he can survive that gauntlet, if he's that breed of cat. Good news for Ras Fans... We may never know.

I was looking at the stat sheet earlier in the year and thinking the same thing. Sure other guys were/are also getting a ton of minutes. But 25-26 minutes per game as the norm? Just too much.  He averages almost 1.5 minutes of ice time per game on the PK.  FIND SOMEONE ELSE to take all those minutes. Yes, Dahlin, once he gets the puck may be really good at getting it out of the zone (if he is? I assume he is but not sure actually), but on your PK, get me a big, tall guy with a long reach who just plays his spot and when there is a loose puck can fire it down the ice. I don't need Dahlin for that. I'd MUCH rather have with zero PK time and sit him on the bench for PK and rest and expend zero energy.

Getting a better 3rd pair will probably help.  You have Power, and if you think he is going to be great then you don't need that "one" guy on the back end to get 24 minutes of ice time. You have "two" guys that now you can give 22-23 minutes.  Next year, start doing that.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

And that's the problem with evaluating players in the Sabres context of semi-meaningful games through the New Year or however long it took to anoint him the best defenseman in the game. How in the world is Rasmus Dahlin going to survive four rounds in the playoffs and be elite? Champions reveal themselves as the skating dead when it's all over. They are worn to a nub. No one is healthy. We simply still don't know if he can survive that gauntlet, if he's that breed of cat. Good news for Ras Fans... We may never know.

Let’s be fair.  No one anointed him the best defenseman in the league. He is 22 and has played with, and carried the load, for a dysfunctional organization for half of his career.  He will continue to mature and be physically and mentally stronger in years to come.  When Pronger went to St Louis there were questions about him.  Hedman, took awhile and was playing with a much better supporting cast.  The list is not small, young defenseman have a longer learning curve.  

Power and Dahlin will be forces.  Let’s pair them with better players, or at least with players that know what this time of the year is all about.   Two goals yesterday were Bryson completely losing his man, so thats -2 for Dahlin.  

The Sabres are 2-6-2 in their last 10.   Their team goal diff went negative last night. They are learning that NHL games in March are different than in October.   

Let’s hope Adams takes action to end this drought and help the core to take that next big step. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Pimlach

[Sidc3000]

54 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Let’s be fair.  No one anointed him the best defenseman in the league. He is 22 and has played with, and carried the load, for a dysfunctional organization for half of his career.  He will continue to mature and be physically and mentally stronger in years to come.  When Pronger went to St Louis there were questions about him.  Hedman, took awhile and was playing with a much better supporting cast.  The list is not small, young defenseman have a longer learning curve.  

Power and Dahlin will be forces.  Let’s pair them with better players, or at least with players that know what this time of the year is all about.   Two goals yesterday were Bryson completely losing his man, so thats -2 for Dahlin.  

The Sabres are 2-6-2 in their last 10.   Their team goal diff went negative last night. They are learning that NHL games in March are different than in October.   

Let’s hope Adams takes action to end this drought and help the core to take that next big step. 

I do believe that Dahlin’s development is being stunted because he has been on a horrendous team since day 1. Will he develop to his full potential? who knows. He was better this season (up until the Allstar break). Could he be hurt and that is causing him to fall off a cliff, possibly. Could his conditioning not be to the level he should be at to play such a high number of minutes for such an extended period, possibly.  
 

time will tell if he becomes the defenseman people think he’ll be. 

[LGR4GM]

31 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I do believe that Dahlin’s development is being stunted because he has been on a horrendous team since day 1. Will he develop to his full potential? who knows. He was better this season (up until the Allstar break). Could he be hurt and that is causing him to fall off a cliff, possibly. Could his conditioning not be to the level he should be at to play such a high number of minutes for such an extended period, possibly.  
 

time will tell if he becomes the defenseman people think he’ll be. 

... lol what? He's gonna finish top 5 in Norris voting and top 5 in points. 

He's injured and Bryson is a boat anchor. 

[Sidc3000]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

... lol what? He's gonna finish top 5 in Norris voting and top 5 in points. 

He's injured and Bryson is a boat anchor. 

He’s in the mix (at the moment) because of the super aggressive offense DG has pushed this season. If they played more defense and the scoring wasn’t so high, there is a possibility he wouldn’t be top 5 because his points and goals would be lower. He claims that he isn’t hurt but most of us don’t really believe him but his numbers are dropping off quickly but so is the super high scoring offense. 

[Scottysabres]

Norris considerations, while nice, are hardly on my mind for Dahlin. What is on my mind is if he will want out at the end of next season if the Sabres can't get their act together. As of right now, I still don't see this team making the playoffs next season, ad other teams are sure to look to improve along with the Sabres. When combined with this coaching staffs now established inability to adjust to a heavy type game style against the Sabres, I'm not seeing the necessary organizational improvements to get us in to the playoff conversation, even for next season.

[Sidc3000]

7 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Norris considerations, while nice, are hardly on my mind for Dahlin. What is on my mind is if he will want out at the end of next season if the Sabres can't get their act together. As of right now, I still don't see this team making the playoffs next season, ad other teams are sure to look to improve along with the Sabres. When combined with this coaching staffs now established inability to adjust to a heavy type game style against the Sabres, I'm not seeing the necessary organizational improvements to get us in to the playoff conversation, even for next season.

That is always a possibility since next year he’s a UFA. It will depend on what he sees internally and if he believes they’re still on the right track. I do thank this season was a bit if an anomaly with DG pushing a high flying offense. 
 

what will be telling is if he signs another short term contract this summer
 

 

[Crusader1969]

8 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Norris considerations, while nice, are hardly on my mind for Dahlin. What is on my mind is if he will want out at the end of next season if the Sabres can't get their act together. As of right now, I still don't see this team making the playoffs next season, ad other teams are sure to look to improve along with the Sabres. When combined with this coaching staffs now established inability to adjust to a heavy type game style against the Sabres, I'm not seeing the necessary organizational improvements to get us in to the playoff conversation, even for next season.

Womp womp 

[Thorner]

Makar making a charge. 3 points yesterday, Morrissey with a couple as well. I’d honestly give it to Makar over him and Karlsson as he actually plays D. But those are prob the nominations and I think Karlsson has it locked up 

[North Buffalo]

Dahlin still playing hurt imo either that or someone got to him and the fix is in.

[LGR4GM]

23 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

He’s in the mix (at the moment) because of the super aggressive offense DG has pushed this season. If they played more defense and the scoring wasn’t so high, there is a possibility he wouldn’t be top 5 because his points and goals would be lower. He claims that he isn’t hurt but most of us don’t really believe him but his numbers are dropping off quickly but so is the super high scoring offense. 

So if the things that happened, didn't happen, Dahlin wouldn't be in the Norris race. But they did. 

[LGR4GM]

15 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

That is always a possibility since next year he’s a UFA. It will depend on what he sees internally and if he believes they’re still on the right track. I do thank this season was a bit if an anomaly with DG pushing a high flying offense. 
 

what will be telling is if he signs another short term contract this summer

No he isn't. Rasmus Dahlin is an RFA and I love how the same posters who were convinced Levi wasn't signing are the same ones who are fearmongering Dahlin leaving.

[Sidc3000]

26 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No he isn't. Rasmus Dahlin is an RFA and I love how the same posters who were convinced Levi wasn't signing are the same ones who are fearmongering Dahlin leaving.

You’re right, he’s a RFA. I’m not sure what i was thinking. 
 

I’m glad you know exactly what Dahlin is thinking or feeling. I also said its a possibility, because it quite literally could happen because he’s an adult who can make his own decisions. Unless you make the decisions for him. If that’s the case then we don’t have to worry because you said he’s not going anywhere. I appreciate you letting us know Dahlin’s decision. 
 

What other players do you make decisions for? 
 

yes I know that being RFA the Sabres have the right to first refusal. 
 

 

 

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So if the things that happened, didn't happen, Dahlin wouldn't be in the Norris race. But they did. 

I’m glad you stated  the obvious 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Sidc3000

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Sidc3000 said:

You’re right, he’s a RFA. I’m not sure what i was thinking. 
 

I’m glad you know exactly what Dahlin is thinking or feeling. I also said its a possibility, because it quite literally could happen because he’s an adult who can make his own decisions. Unless you make the decisions for him. If that’s the case then we don’t have to worry because you said he’s not going anywhere. I appreciate you letting us know Dahlin’s decision. 
 

What other players do you make decisions for? 
 

yes I know that being RFA the Sabres have the right to first refusal. 
 

 

 

I’m glad you stated  the obvious 

Yea... okay, bye. 

[Thorner]

This isn’t to be negative, it’s just a reality- whether by his play, fatigue, injury, or pairing partner, Dahlin has absolutely played himself out of the race with this putrid stretch. He hasn’t been very good since the all star game, but particularly of late, after another -3 today:

he’s got 0 points in his last 8 games and is a *minus -13*. Whereas he was among the D leaders in this category (which can matter for Norris), a minus season is actually possible after all that which was simply unfathomable a few weeks ago.

it adds a certain sting cause as a fan you can sometimes fall back on individual careers years / progress in light of team failure, as a silver lining, but that too is drying up across the board

Edited March 19, 2023 by Thorny

[Stoner]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This isn’t to be negative, it’s just a reality- whether by his play, fatigue, injury, or pairing partner, Dahlin has absolutely played himself out of the race with this putrid stretch. He hasn’t been very good since the all star game, but particularly of late, after another -3 today:

he’s got 0 points in his last 8 games and is a *minus -13*. Whereas he was among the D leaders in this category (which can matter for Norris), a minus season is actually possible after all that which was simply unfathomable a few weeks ago.

it adds a certain sting cause as a fan you can sometimes fall back on individual careers years / progress in light of team failure, as a silver lining, but that too is drying up across the board

And when it counts the most.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

And when it counts the most.

I’m totally willing to leave a blank space on that, “how will he perform in crunch time games”. Absolutely. Presuming you are willing to grant that he played very well in the games, early in the year, that you were arguing were some of the important games, last year during the hot stretch to end?

So, no, not the MOST important yet, but he has 75% of it covered. That’s a reasonable amount to go on, for Kevyn Adams and his team building supplementation, 

one would think 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

I figured Dahlin winning the Norris was dependent on making the playoffs. This stretch of games since late February... Dahlin's Norris case, like the Sabres' playoff chances, are over. Disappointing given where both opportunities stood just a couple weeks ago.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I figured Dahlin winning the Norris was dependent on making the playoffs. This stretch of games since late February... Dahlin's Norris case, like the Sabres' playoff chances, are over. Disappointing given where both opportunities stood just a couple weeks ago.

I don’t think he was ever going to win. Karlsson will get it but what is disappointing is he’s playing, and has likely already played himself out of a nomination altogether.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Thorny