First impressions of Jordan Greenway

[JohnC]

KA gave up a minimal amount of assets to help build up the lower half of the roster and add more depths. Spellman and Jost are lower half roster players. I'm open-minded about Greenway who I consider a third liner. It won't be a surprise if Rousek is on the team next year. You can see that the upper lines and pairings are filling out. Upgrading that lower half of the roster is critical in creating a well-rounded  and deeper team. What's evident is that the pieces are falling into place. 

[Pimlach]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

KA gave up a minimal amount of assets to help build up the lower half of the roster and add more depths. Spellman and Jost are lower half roster players. I'm open-minded about Greenway who I consider a third liner. It won't be a surprise if Rousek is on the team next year. You can see that the upper lines and pairings are filling out. Upgrading that lower half of the roster is critical in creating a well-rounded  and deeper team. What's evident is that the pieces are falling into place. 

Rousek (or any other rookie) making the team might be a stretch as we pretty much have to take Savoie next season.  Savoie will need place to play, the AHL is not an option,  and I don't think burying him in the WHL is a good option for him again. 

Our end of season forward lineup when healthy:  

Skinner - TNT - Tuch

JJP - Cozens - Quinn

Mitts - Jost - Greenway

Girgensons - Krebs - Kyle

Spare:  VO, Vinnie

Emerging rookies:  Savoie, Kulich, Rousek

Starting with Savoie, he can be a candidate for the 3rd line and push Jost out, or down to the fourth line.  Mitts moves to 3C, Savoie could start at wing with Greenway on the other wing.  In the near future Savoie may eventually replace JJP on the 2nd line, and someday replace Skinner on the first line, but lets start him on the 3rd line and protect his minutes next season.  

Assume that KO retires -  Losing KO and adding a second rookie (Rousek or Kulich) in his spot is not doing anything to make this team "better rounded".   Not to say that Adams wont do just that anyway, he loves his prospects. 

Kulich and/or Rousek may have surpassed KO in speed and skill, but the 4th line could use something else.  A would like to see another veteran brought in.   A physical player with energy, a banger, a good PK guy, a guy with experience winning in the NHL.  Especially true if Zemgus goes too.  

Jost could get moved to KO's spot, or fight for 4C with Krebs, or end up a spare forward, or move on.  

Adams will decide if they even want to offer contracts to Jost and to Zemgus.  

Right now VO is already a spare part and he is a very tradable asset that can be packaged to improve defense or anything else really.   He is not a 4th liner.  

Vinnie is not more than a spare forward on this team, and he may want to look elsewhere to play more.   

Kulick, Rousek, and Rosen should not make the team as spare forwards.   Sitting out NHL games is not a great development opportunity for them when they could be playing big roles in Rochester and get called up as needed. 

It will be interesting and much hinges on Savoie's readiness and Kyles decision.  

 

[mjd1001]

So, Greenway has scored a few times. Maybe he has the potential on this time to produce offense on a regular basis?  The thing is, after watching him score a few goals, play a bunch of games now, I still have no idea what I expect of him going forward.

I don't think there has ever been a player on a Sabres team that they aquired, that I have followed him on the ice as much as I can, that I have had less of an opinion on. I really have ZERO idea what he is or can be.

[Turbo44]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

So, Greenway has scored a few times. Maybe he has the potential on this time to produce offense on a regular basis?  The thing is, after watching him score a few goals, play a bunch of games now, I still have no idea what I expect of him going forward.

I don't think there has ever been a player on a Sabres team that they aquired, that I have followed him on the ice as much as I can, that I have had less of an opinion on. I really have ZERO idea what he is or can be.

I think Greenway is playing hurt - prob a hurt shoulder all year long - and I expect a different player next year. His little scoring streak is on a limited scale but is still a bit promising

[Mango]

I have been hard on Greenway since we picked him up, but he has gotten better since coming here. 

I do like mixing the lines up a bit last night. It was a good mix of speed, skill, and physicality. A lot of successes from a lot of different lines. Felt like most of the forwards had a good night and less mismatches from shift to shift/line to line. 

[Ctaeth]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

So, Greenway has scored a few times. Maybe he has the potential on this time to produce offense on a regular basis?  The thing is, after watching him score a few goals, play a bunch of games now, I still have no idea what I expect of him going forward.

I don't think there has ever been a player on a Sabres team that they aquired, that I have followed him on the ice as much as I can, that I have had less of an opinion on. I really have ZERO idea what he is or can be.

Agree completely.  It's funny.. based on his stats with the Wild and the way he was described when we traded for him.. I was expecting a better than average passer and a better than average defender.  But yet he has 4 goals and no assists so far (3 in the last 4 games!).  That goal last night was a pretty clean shot, he definitely looked like a goal scorer there.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Rousek (or any other rookie) making the team might be a stretch as we pretty much have to take Savoie next season.  Savoie will need place to play, the AHL is not an option,  and I don't think burying him in the WHL is a good option for him again. 

Our end of season forward lineup when healthy:  

Skinner - TNT - Tuch

JJP - Cozens - Quinn

Mitts - Jost - Greenway

Girgensons - Krebs - Kyle

Spare:  VO, Vinnie

Emerging rookies:  Savoie, Kulich, Rousek

Starting with Savoie, he can be a candidate for the 3rd line and push Jost out, or down to the fourth line.  Mitts moves to 3C, Savoie could start at wing with Greenway on the other wing.  In the near future Savoie may eventually replace JJP on the 2nd line, and someday replace Skinner on the first line, but lets start him on the 3rd line and protect his minutes next season.  

Assume that KO retires -  Losing KO and adding a second rookie (Rousek or Kulich) in his spot is not doing anything to make this team "better rounded".   Not to say that Adams wont do just that anyway, he loves his prospects. 

Kulich and/or Rousek may have surpassed KO in speed and skill, but the 4th line could use something else.  A would like to see another veteran brought in.   A physical player with energy, a banger, a good PK guy, a guy with experience winning in the NHL.  Especially true if Zemgus goes too.  

Jost could get moved to KO's spot, or fight for 4C with Krebs, or end up a spare forward, or move on.  

Adams will decide if they even want to offer contracts to Jost and to Zemgus.  

Right now VO is already a spare part and he is a very tradable asset that can be packaged to improve defense or anything else really.   He is not a 4th liner.  

Vinnie is not more than a spare forward on this team, and he may want to look elsewhere to play more.   

Kulick, Rousek, and Rosen should not make the team as spare forwards.   Sitting out NHL games is not a great development opportunity for them when they could be playing big roles in Rochester and get called up as needed. 

It will be interesting and much hinges on Savoie's readiness and Kyles decision.  

 

I agree with the thrust of your post but not all of the details of your post. I have no problem with Rousek moving up to replace KO if he decides to retire. Because of the unique situation of Savoie not being able to play in the AHL, I agree with you that he will probably make the roster. It makes more sense to me to keep Kulich and Rosen in the AHL and give them a lot of playing time. 

Where I slightly disagree with you is why wouldn't the GM offer a contract to Jost and Zemgus? Jost shouldn't cost much, and Zemgus is a veteran presence who is respected in the room. He plays hard and with heart. He's certainly not a primary player but he is a solid player who is also a glue guy. 

As you noted it is going to be interesting to see how ready Savoie is for the big league. I hate the rule, although understand why it exists, that doesn't allow a prospect like Savoie to play in the AHL. 

What's evident to me is that the pieces are falling in place. There are some obvious needs to be addressed but for the most part the rebuilding is being done in-house, and that is how the GM mostly wanted it to go.

How can one not be optimistic about this team? Just think how dampened our spirits were two years ago when Krueger was steering the leaky ship!

 

[triumph_communes]

This guy is going to mesh well once he gets up to speed. You can already see the progression.  Pairing him with Thompson and Cozens worked out really well

[Flashsabre]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

This guy is going to mesh well once he gets up to speed. You can already see the progression.  Pairing him with Thompson and Cozens worked out really well

I would try a jumbo line next year: Greenway-Tage-Tuch

all of them are buddies from the US developmental team.

Move Skinner to a line with say Mitts and Savoie. Could give them 3 scoring lines.

Try it for a bit if it doesn’t click then move Skinner back to the top line. But a 6’6-6’6-6’4 line would be a playoff mismatch line

[triumph_communes]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

I would try a jumbo line next year: Greenway-Tage-Tuch

all of them are buddies from the US developmental team.

Move Skinner to a line with say Mitts and Savoie. Could give them 3 scoring lines.

Try it for a bit if it doesn’t click then move Skinner back to the top line. But a 6’6-6’6-6’4 line would be a playoff mismatch line

It was Cozens going on fast breaks that made that line stand out. Spread it out 

[Flashsabre]

5 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

It was Cozens going on fast breaks that made that line stand out. Spread it out 

Yeah and Tuch can play that role on the line. 

Keep Cozens with JJ and Quinn. 

[Pimlach]

19 hours ago, JohnC said:

I agree with the thrust of your post but not all of the details of your post. I have no problem with Rousek moving up to replace KO if he decides to retire. Because of the unique situation of Savoie not being able to play in the AHL, I agree with you that he will probably make the roster. It makes more sense to me to keep Kulich and Rosen in the AHL and give them a lot of playing time. 

Where I slightly disagree with you is why wouldn't the GM offer a contract to Jost and Zemgus? Jost shouldn't cost much, and Zemgus is a veteran presence who is respected in the room. He plays hard and with heart. He's certainly not a primary player but he is a solid player who is also a glue guy. 

As you noted it is going to be interesting to see how ready Savoie is for the big league. I hate the rule, although understand why it exists, that doesn't allow a prospect like Savoie to play in the AHL. 

What's evident to me is that the pieces are falling in place. There are some obvious needs to be addressed but for the most part the rebuilding is being done in-house, and that is how the GM mostly wanted it to go.

How can one not be optimistic about this team? Just think how dampened our spirits were two years ago when Krueger was steering the leaky ship!

 

I am very optimistic about the team.  You question that and it was not related to the conversation.  
 

To the rest of your comments: 

We saw Rousek play one game.  That is not enough for me to just give him KO’s spot.  If he earns it in camp then fine, but that would that mean Adams didn’t bring in an experienced NHL player to compete for it. You started this conversation by declaring they would build a deeper and more well rounded team.   To me, that implies honestly targeting those missing elements and bringing in players that have a track record in the NHL.  

Second, I never said Adams will not offer Jost or Zemgus a contract   I presented it as a possibility. He did not match a contract offer to retain Ullmark, it could happen to these players too.   He has the depth to bring in more rookie forwards.  

In summary, I could be happy with only Savoie coming up to start the next season   If anything occurs during the season that causes call ups from Rochester, and those player do well and stick, that is great.   I just hope Adams does not plan to start the season with 2 or 3 more rookies next year.   We absorbed 3 rookies this year, plus 3 sophomores.  

I want to win   We need more experienced players to advance, not less   

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I am very optimistic about the team.  You question that and it was not related to the conversation.  
 

To the rest of your comments: 

We saw Rousek play one game.  That is not enough for me to just give him KO’s spot.  If he earns it in camp then fine, but that would that mean Adams didn’t bring in an experienced NHL player to compete for it. You started this conversation by declaring they would build a deeper and more well rounded team.   To me, that implies honestly targeting those missing elements and bringing in players that have a track record in the NHL.  

Second, I never said Adams will not offer Jost or Zemgus a contract   I presented it as a possibility. He did not match a contract offer to retain Ullmark, it could happen to these players too.   He has the depth to bring in more rookies forwards.  

In summary, I could be happy with only Savoie coming up to start the next season   If anything occurs during the season that causes call ups from Rochester, and those player do well and stick, that is great.   I just hope Adams does not plan to start the season with 2 or 3 more rookies next year.   We absorbed 3 rookies this year, plus 3 sophomores.  

I want to win   We need more experienced players to advance, not less   

 

The only thing I'd say is that even if he added 2 rookies (Johnson and Savoie) they would both be deeper in the lineup then Quinn, JJP, and Power are because we have Quinnn, JJP, and Power. 

I'd also add Johnson and Rousek would be NHL rookies but they aren't young 20yr old kids. They would be 22 and 24 when September hits. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

The only thing I'd say is that even if he added 2 rookies (Johnson and Savoie) they would both be deeper in the lineup then Quinn, JJP, and Power are because we have Quinnn, JJP, and Power. 

I'd also add Johnson and Rousek would be NHL rookies but they aren't young 20yr old kids. They would be 22 and 24 when September hits. 

Yes, I didn’t mention defense.  

I do think Johnson gets a real shot at the defense 5/6 spots battling Lybushkin, Stillman, Bryson, etc.  I prefer he start in Rochester but if he can make the jump to the NHL so be it.  

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I am very optimistic about the team.  You question that and it was not related to the conversation.  
 

To the rest of your comments: 

We saw Rousek play one game.  That is not enough for me to just give him KO’s spot.  If he earns it in camp then fine, but that would that mean Adams didn’t bring in an experienced NHL player to compete for it. You started this conversation by declaring they would build a deeper and more well rounded team.   To me, that implies honestly targeting those missing elements and bringing in players that have a track record in the NHL.  

Second, I never said Adams will not offer Jost or Zemgus a contract   I presented it as a possibility. He did not match a contract offer to retain Ullmark, it could happen to these players too.   He has the depth to bring in more rookie forwards.  

In summary, I could be happy with only Savoie coming up to start the next season   If anything occurs during the season that causes call ups from Rochester, and those player do well and stick, that is great.   I just hope Adams does not plan to start the season with 2 or 3 more rookies next year.   We absorbed 3 rookies this year, plus 3 sophomores.  

I want to win   We need more experienced players to advance, not less   

 

I don't know how you came up with your interpretation that I said that you were not optimistic. 

[dudacek]

I'm starting to see a player that more matches the concept: Not necessarily the banger that some were hoping for, but the responsible, strong-on-pucks guy who goes to the net and backchecks with purpose.

[Flashsabre]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm starting to see a player that more matches the concept: Not necessarily the banger that some were hoping for, but the responsible, strong-on-pucks guy who goes to the net and backchecks with purpose.

He has high end defensive instincts.

I still think he is not in top shape/ completely healthy. I think we see him blossom next year here. 15-20 goals depending what line he is on.

[Doohicksie]

My first impression was he is hot trash.

 

 

My first impression was wrong.

[JohnC]

20 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'm starting to see a player that more matches the concept: Not necessarily the banger that some were hoping for, but the responsible, strong-on-pucks guy who goes to the net and backchecks with purpose.

Going to the net is a major need for this team. He improves on this particular deficiency. Tuch has been present in that tough area. 

[DarthEbriate]

20 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

He has high end defensive instincts.

I still think he is not in top shape/ completely healthy. I think we see him blossom next year here. 15-20 goals depending what line he is on.

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

My first impression was he is hot trash.

My first impression was wrong.

He definitely needed time to adjust to the Sabres' speed and what was being asked of him. He also needs time to rest his shoulder so he isn't tentative for contact as he was with Minnesota all season. I don't know that he'll ever break out as a top 6 but he looks like he could easily take over for KO on a defensive line next season. (Girgs-Krebs-Greenway with some Savoie in the middle to help the rookie learn responsible side of the grinding game as Krebs is.)

But a 3rd line of Mitts-Krebs/Savoie-Greenway where Greenway is both his defensively responsible self and driving the net offensively then 15 goals could definitely happen. Mitts' growing all-around game and the feistiness of Krebs or the slashing of Savoie. Greenway isn't replacing VO's total goals, but would also remove many of those goals against.

And... there's always the possibility (however unlikely) that Granato unlocks Greenway's offense in ways undreamed (hopefully without completely sacrificing his defensive chops) and you get a Tuch 2.0 instead of simply a Tuch-lite. Greenway becomes a top-6 force with Quinn-Cozens and the Sabres roll all comers.

[Pimlach]

20 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'm starting to see a player that more matches the concept: Not necessarily the banger that some were hoping for, but the responsible, strong-on-pucks guy who goes to the net and backchecks with purpose.

Agree.  Check my earlier posts, I was hard on him because I want the "banger" and I want someone on this team that will hold other teams knuckleheads accountable.  I did not know he was playing injured either.  

The past 3 to 4 games he is looking like a better hockey player.  If Granato can help his game in the same manner he has with the rest of the players on this team then he will be a useful player that adds a dimension we need. 

[French Collection]

7 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

He definitely needed time to adjust to the Sabres' speed and what was being asked of him. He also needs time to rest his shoulder so he isn't tentative for contact as he was with Minnesota all season. I don't know that he'll ever break out as a top 6 but he looks like he could easily take over for KO on a defensive line next season. (Girgs-Krebs-Greenway with some Savoie in the middle to help the rookie learn responsible side of the grinding game as Krebs is.)

But a 3rd line of Mitts-Krebs/Savoie-Greenway where Greenway is both his defensively responsible self and driving the net offensively then 15 goals could definitely happen. Mitts' growing all-around game and the feistiness of Krebs or the slashing of Savoie. Greenway isn't replacing VO's total goals, but would also remove many of those goals against.

And... there's always the possibility (however unlikely) that Granato unlocks Greenway's offense in ways undreamed (hopefully without completely sacrificing his defensive chops) and you get a Tuch 2.0 instead of simply a Tuch-lite. Greenway becomes a top-6 force with Quinn-Cozens and the Sabres roll all comers.

First reference to VO that I see in a while. I haven’t missed him, even though he has 26 goals.

I don’t think Greenway pots 20 but he can provide some defensive responsibility, net front presence, positive board battles and wearing the other team down. If he can get 30-35 points then that almost replaces VO’s production on top of the items I mentioned above.

VO’s goals can be replaced by improvements in Quinn and Peterka. Quinn should be on the PP instead of VO, he has a good shot, vision, passing ability and great maneuverability.

Can a 26 goal scorer + a draft pick return a 4D?

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, French Collection said:

First reference to VO that I see in a while. I haven’t missed him, even though he has 26 goals.

I don’t think Greenway pots 20 but he can provide some defensive responsibility, net front presence, positive board battles and wearing the other team down. If he can get 30-35 points then that almost replaces VO’s production on top of the items I mentioned above.

VO’s goals can be replaced by improvements in Quinn and Peterka. Quinn should be on the PP instead of VO, he has a good shot, vision, passing ability and great maneuverability.

Can a 26 goal scorer + a draft pick return a 4D?

Yes, but I would think it depends on the draft pick and the alleged 4D.  

Adams has stated that the rest if the NHL knows what we have in the prospect pool, which is probably a disadvantage for him.   It seemed to be in the Chykrun deal.  

[Rasmus_]

He's been better as of late, but I'm still underwhelmed.  

[Turbo44]

His bets year was 21-22 when he had something like 10 goals and 12 assists and was a nice +26 in 62 games 

so what this shows me is he can be a faster, bigger, younger slightly better  version of okposo or Girgenson. He can be our top defensive forward who may score upwards of 30 points. If he helps turnaround an atrocious PK unit it’s a win of a trade. Levi can help the PK turnaround too as our goalie sv% on the PK for the other 3 goalies is hideous