Could the NHL be expanding to 34 Franchises with New Teams in Atlanta and Houston?

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

It’s wasn’t so much sabotage as disinterest, incompetence and a lack of proper marketing.  One of the principal owners was Ted Turner’s son in law who I know well and he and his partners had little or no knowledge of hockey.  The group also was fractured from Day 1 as none were rich enough to be the primary owner.  You had different pieces of the group running the Thrashers vs the Hawks.  Like the Braves in Buffalo, Hockey was secondary.
 

GM Don Waddell also did a horrendous job.  When you get a chance go look at how the Thrashers drafted.  Not one 2nd rd pick in 11 years made an impact on the team except a goalie briefly.  Many of the 1st picks were busts and the team failed to win, making the playoffs just once.  Hard to build a following that way.

The stadium and the atmosphere in it were awful.  50 % of the lower bowl was sold to and arranged in corporate sections which were rarely utilized making the stadium feel dead.  Add the downtown location when most of the fans lived North of the city and you have a recipe for failure.    Downtown is even worse now than then, although they have fixed the seating issue.  

Fan location is why the Braves moved North.  

So what’s changed since 2010?  Obviously the local population has continued to grow.  The area is about 50% larger than when the Thrashers arrived in 1999.  Another big change is the growth of youth hockey on the North side of Atlanta.  We have tripled the number of rinks and there are very successful youth leagues all the way up to and beyond high school age players.  I actually live within 10 miles of 3 different rinks, two of which were built in the last 5 years.
 

My son-in-law came through these leagues and played some lower tier Jr hockey.  He ended up becoming Captain and President of the U of Tenn club hockey team.  In fact most of the local universities in the ACC and SEC as well as others Southern Universities have successful club hockey teams and some schools, like UGA are beginning the fund raising and push to become D2 or D1 NCAA programs.

All this because of the Thrashers, Canes, Pred, TB, Dallas.  Southern hockey is growing like crazy and has for the last decade.

Another piece of the puzzle is the Gladiators ECHL team.  They are highly successful, have a strong fanbase and would be a great base to re-establish hockey in the ATL. 

So should it happen? Maybe!  I think Houston and Atlanta are the biggest markets without teams.  For a new franchise to succeed, the team needs knowledgeable hockey focused local ownership and a building on the Northside of town. Those are significant hurdles.  

I do agree that 2 failed attempts are a terrible legacy, but the 2nd attempt was set up to fail.  We have seen failed markets like The Bay Area succeed when done properly and unlike 1999, there is a local hockey educated fan base that would adore having their own team.   

John Buccigross mentioned Alpharetta in His Tweet. I’m not familiar with the Atlanta Area, not sure if an arena can be built there. 
 

Quebec City is most likely a no go with the NHL. QC’s Favorite Son Marty Biron mentioned the following reasons they would not get a team, population of QC is less than Buffalo, there is not enough corporate dollars in immediate region and most importantly Montreal has claimed the area as its own and will likely block another team in QC. 

[...]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

It’s wasn’t so much sabotage as disinterest, incompetence and a lack of proper marketing.  One of the principal owners was Ted Turner’s son in law who I know well and he and his partners had little or no knowledge of hockey.  The group also was fractured from Day 1 as none were rich enough to be the primary owner.  You had different pieces of the group running the Thrashers vs the Hawks.  Like the Braves in Buffalo, Hockey was secondary.
 

GM Don Waddell also did a horrendous job.  When you get a chance go look at how the Thrashers drafted.  Not one 2nd rd pick in 11 years made an impact on the team except a goalie briefly.  Many of the 1st picks were busts and the team failed to win, making the playoffs just once.  Hard to build a following that way.

The stadium and the atmosphere in it were awful.  50 % of the lower bowl was sold to and arranged in corporate sections which were rarely utilized making the stadium feel dead.  Add the downtown location when most of the fans lived North of the city and you have a recipe for failure.    Downtown is even worse now than then, although they have fixed the seating issue.  

Fan location is why the Braves moved North.  

So what’s changed since 2010?  Obviously the local population has continued to grow.  The area is about 50% larger than when the Thrashers arrived in 1999.  Another big change is the growth of youth hockey on the North side of Atlanta.  We have tripled the number of rinks and there are very successful youth leagues all the way up to and beyond high school age players.  I actually live within 10 miles of 3 different rinks, two of which were built in the last 5 years.
 

My son-in-law came through these leagues and played some lower tier Jr hockey.  He ended up becoming Captain and President of the U of Tenn club hockey team.  In fact most of the local universities in the ACC and SEC as well as others Southern Universities have successful club hockey teams and some schools, like UGA are beginning the fund raising and push to become D2 or D1 NCAA programs.

All this because of the Thrashers, Canes, Pred, TB, Dallas.  Southern hockey is growing like crazy and has for the last decade.

Another piece of the puzzle is the Gladiators ECHL team.  They are highly successful, have a strong fanbase and would be a great base to re-establish hockey in the ATL. 

So should it happen? Maybe!  I think Houston and Atlanta are the biggest markets without teams.  For a new franchise to succeed, the team needs knowledgeable hockey focused local ownership and a building on the Northside of town. Those are significant hurdles.  

I do agree that 2 failed attempts are a terrible legacy, but the 2nd attempt was set up to fail.  We have seen failed markets like The Bay Area succeed when done properly and unlike 1999, there is a local hockey educated fan base that would adore having their own team.   

We've been looking around for place to settle in the South. I was surprised to see so much hockey.

For those who don't know:

https://www.thesphl.com/

https://www.echl.com/

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

John Buccigross mentioned Alpharetta in His Tweet. I’m not familiar with the Atlanta Area, not sure if an arena can be built there. 

Alpharetta is a city in the North central part of Metro Atlanta.  The ECHL Gladiator’s arena is not far from Alpharetta in Duluth GA.  Duluth is NE Atlanta.  I live NW.  

It would be a great place for a stadium.  There is a major N/S highway (GA 400) that runs next to Alpharetta and connects to the rest of the metroplex.  

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Another genius comment.  Take your political garbage elsewhere.

Oh, it's not mine to take.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Eleven

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, ... said:

We've been looking around for place to settle in the South. I was surprised to see so much hockey.

For those who don't know:

https://www.thesphl.com/

https://www.echl.com/

I think you’d be surprised how hockey is played here and the quality of the adult leagues.  I’ve attended games for 3 local colleges, GA, GA Tech and Kennesaw St and they are fun to watch.  The Gladiators average about 5000 a game for an ECHL team.   

Atlanta has everything including many smaller communities that are surprisingly close to the city.  Traffic can be terrible, but it’s not 24/7 bad.  The Waze is very helpful.  There are also great college cities like Athens GA or Knoxville, TN that are worth checking out if you want a smaller but vibrant community.  You will have to adopt a college football however. Ask @LGR4GM what a college football weekend in Athens is like.

Edited March 6, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[...]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you’d be surprised how hockey is played here and the quality of the adult leagues.  I’ve attended games for 3 local colleges, GA, GA Tech and Kennesaw St and they are fun to watch.  The Gladiators average about 5000 a game for an ECHL team.   

Atlanta has everything including many smaller communities that are surprisingly close to the city.  Traffic can be terrible, but it’s not 24/7 bad.  The Waze is very helpful.  There are also great college cities like Athens GA or Knoxville, TN that are worth checking out if you want a smaller but vibrant community.  You will have to adopt a college football however. Ask @LGR4GM what a college football weekend in Athens is like.

Knoxville is one of the finalists. I have Southern relatives who are all too happy to go into great detail about adopting a college team! 

Edited March 6, 2023 by ...

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, ... said:

Knoxville is one of the finalists. I have Southern relatives who are all to happy to go into great detail about adopting a college team! 

My daughter lives in knoxville and we like to visit except football weekends.  There are good restaurants and a growing local brewing culture.  The public schools aren’t great.  The main downtown area is fun.  It’s also still pretty easy to get around.

Do what my daughter did, live and work in Knoxville and proudly put UGA memorabilia all over your office 🙂

The Ice Bears and Tenn Ice Vols often play double headers.  

Edited March 6, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Braves and Bulldogs are certainly 1 and 2 in the city

 

Another genius comment.  Take your political garbage elsewhere.

I didn’t live here then. I was still in Buffalo, but people say the Flames were a lot of fun.  

Yea, and from my experience there's little appetite for hockey.

 

Ftr, his comment refers to a politician from Georgia saying the US should be split into separate countries. 

[LGR4GM]

35 minutes ago, ... said:

We've been looking around for place to settle in the South. I was surprised to see so much hockey.

For those who don't know:

https://www.thesphl.com/

https://www.echl.com/

I'd lean NC personally. Traffic in Atlanta is a dumpster fire. Raleigh, Greenville and Charlotte are fun. Columbia SC as well. Depends on what you want. If you like hockey, you need a city with Buffalo transplants like Charlotte where there's Bills bars. Could get Sabres games. 

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you’d be surprised how hockey is played here and the quality of the adult leagues.  I’ve attended games for 3 local colleges, GA, GA Tech and Kennesaw St and they are fun to watch.  The Gladiators average about 5000 a game for an ECHL team.   

Atlanta has everything including many smaller communities that are surprisingly close to the city.  Traffic can be terrible, but it’s not 24/7 bad.  The Waze is very helpful.  There are also great college cities like Athens GA or Knoxville, TN that are worth checking out if you want a smaller but vibrant community.  You will have to adopt a college football however. Ask @LGR4GM what a college football weekend in Athens is like.

Atlanta does have smaller communities around the city. For me personally, I find Atlanta to be to big. 

[SABRES 0311]

If two teams are introduced the same year how do protection lists work for the expansion draft?

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Rasmus_ said:

Atlanta does not deserve another team.  Quebec should easily receive a team before Atlanta.  Houston is fine, by me.  

That was my first thought too. Atlanta's a growing city and I suppose with the Carolina success they think they can give it another go but I don't see it as a hockey town. Quebec is a smaller market but it would be loyal. 

Southern Ontario really could handle another team easily but I imagine the Leafs (and possibly the Sabres) would veto any such plans but if you can have 2 NY teams and a NJ you should have at least 2 Toronto area teams as well. 

The league is always more interested in spreading out U.S. tv coverage and new geography though and not expanding into areas where hockey is already popular. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Ftr, his comment refers to a politician from Georgia saying the US should be split into separate countries. 

So what! It’s garbage, not funny and this is no place for that BS.  

Want me to list every stupid comment from a NY politician from both parties? We’d be here for the next 10 years.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

By the way former NHLer Anson Carter is a part owner of the Atlanta Gladiators.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So what! It’s garbage, not funny and this is no place for that BS.  

Want me to list every stupid comment from a NY politician from both parties? We’d be here for the next 10 years.  

Only 10 years?

[sabremike]

Great to see a naked and cynical cash grab that further dilutes the quality of the product. Why not just expand the league to 68 teams while they're at it? If this goes through the NHL at 34 teams would be the largest top flight sports league on Earth which is completely ridiculous.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So what! It’s garbage, not funny and this is no place for that BS.  

Want me to list every stupid comment from a NY politician from both parties? We’d be here for the next 10 years.  

I don't think it's funny. Stop bringing it up. 

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That was my first thought too. Atlanta's a growing city and I suppose with the Carolina success they think they can give it another go but I don't see it as a hockey town. Quebec is a smaller market but it would be loyal. 

Southern Ontario really could handle another team easily but I imagine the Leafs (and possibly the Sabres) would veto any such plans but if you can have 2 NY teams and a NJ you should have at least 2 Toronto area teams as well. 

The league is always more interested in spreading out U.S. tv coverage and new geography though and not expanding into areas where hockey is already popular. 

Atlanta already ran out of water. Will be interesting to see how much more growth it can take. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

Personally I'd like this thread to continue so maybe GA and 11 can both move on from politics. 

[Hank]

Build to forty teams. 78 game schedule, home and home with each team, true balance, no divisions, no conferences. 24 team playoff with top eight getting a first round bye. Reseed each round. Teams in Houston, Atlanta, Kansas city, Salt Lake, Oklahoma city, Milwaukee, San Diego, Indianapolis. 

[Night Train]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

Build to forty teams. 78 game schedule, home and home with each team, true balance, no divisions, no conferences. 24 team playoff with top eight getting a first round bye. Reseed each round. Teams in Houston, Atlanta, Kansas city, Salt Lake, Oklahoma city, Milwaukee, San Diego, Indianapolis. 

 

 

No Billings, Montana or Boise ? 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Personally I'd like this thread to continue so maybe GA and 11 can both move on from politics. 

Oh I'm not really on it.  It was a one-off comment.  Anyway, the instability of Georgia aside, the idea of a third team in Atlanta is really stupid.  The first ownership group tried really hard to make the Flames work, no matter what revisionist history is being peddled now by people who want to try this futile experiment again, and the initial second ownership group did too.  It was only the successor Thrashers ownership group that was half-hearted (due to internal squabbling), and still, it was half-hearted rather than no-hearted.  

Atlantans should stick to college football and NASCAR, and maybe try supporting the Braves a little bit.  Hockey there makes no sense, and neither does repeating this disastrous idea every 20 years.  (Would I put a Big Ten football team in Buffalo?  No.  That also would make no sense.)

Edited March 6, 2023 by Eleven

[pastajoe]

I went to an Atlanta Thrashers game back in the day. It was a nice arena with easy access, and they had a large crowd. But like any new franchise, they have to be competitive to keep fan interest in the first few years. That’s why the NHL now makes sure expansion teams field a competitive roster from the start; ala Vegas and Seattle.

[Night Train]

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-relocation-7-cities-that-make-sense/

 

Atlanta not mentioned at all. 

[RochesterExpat]

13 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Hell, Fort Worth is the 12th largest city in the country.  A Fort Worth - Stars rivalry would be nasty!

 Let me tell you all about the Fort Worth Falcons winning the cup... in EA NHL. It's my default create-a-franchise for the whole 5 hours I spend playing the game before I remember it's too easy to gimmick because the AI is awful, get mad and then quit..

[Radar]

16 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If it will make the NHL money they will do it. 

It'll make owners money. They must love dividing up those expansion fees and giving fans even more of a watered down product and charging more to see it. I've "lost my love for the game" to steal a quote.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, pastajoe said:

I went to an Atlanta Thrashers game back in the day. It was a nice arena with easy access, and they had a large crowd. But like any new franchise, they have to be competitive to keep fan interest in the first few years. That’s why the NHL now makes sure expansion teams field a competitive roster from the start; ala Vegas and Seattle.

The problem with Atlanta is college football is king. You are a stone's throw from Alabama, Georgia, and Clemson. We could toss in Tennessee, South Carolina, and I suppose Auburn too. There is just a concentration of College Football and the NFL plays second fiddle to it. Hockey isn't a cultural thing there and you would need to do a lot of leg work to make it that. Vegas, no sports were there so it was a clean slate. Seattle, had football but that's it and it is close to Canada and hockey culture. Atlanta, you telling me that ppl are going to spend money on Hockey over driving to College Football? I don't see it.