The Problem with NOT Trading for Defense

[LGR4GM]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

They also put a 2nd 1st in a condition if they made the ECF in the next two years.

I dont see that happening for Ottawa but hey, it might. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Adams is guilty of not doing what fans want when they want it. Nothing more. To suggest that "Adams does not properly evaluate the team's needs" is preposterous. He has a plan and he's sticking with it. The fact the Sabres are contending for a playoff spot sooner than expected isn't moving him off that plan. Don't forget that he involves Kyle Okposo in team decisions. So he's getting input from the locker room. Adams is not going to make the same mistakes his predecessors made when trying to rush the rebuild.

[Carmel Corn]

Totally agree with the original post....GMKA truly has head in the ground or up his ***.  Bargain basement & dumpster diving for the blue line and net minding will do nothing to get you over the hump (into the playoffs) and he is ignoring his fan base.  In what century does he think his team will challenge for the cup?

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Adams is guilty of not doing what fans want when they want it. Nothing more. To suggest that "Adams does not properly evaluate the team's needs" is preposterous. He has a plan and he's sticking with it. The fact the Sabres are contending for a playoff spot sooner than expected isn't moving him off that plan. Don't forget that he involves Kyle Okposo in team decisions. So he's getting input from the locker room. Adams is not going to make the same mistakes his predecessors made when trying to rush the rebuild.

So? 

[sabrefanday1]

would a good defense coach not help or maybe even solve the problem? Lots of good coaches out there.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

only becomes a 1st if the 1st in 2023 slides. Wasn't meant as a discount, was looking at it from could we beat the Ottawa offer. We could have offered a 2023 2nd. 

But the '24 2nd isn't included in your writeup.  The Otters gave up their '23 1st (w/ conditions that could slide it to '24), Washington's '24 2nd (w/ conditions that it could become a 1st in '25) , and their '26 2nd.  You seem to be missing a pick.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

So? 

So deal with it.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Adams is not going to make the same mistakes his predecessors made when trying to rush the rebuild.

What defensive help is coming to this team that isn't coming from outside?

[Night Train]

Can I ask what UFA's will be available this summer on D ?   

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So deal with it.

Such a well thought out response. I might need to do some research to offer a proper rebuttal. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Can I ask what UFA's will be available this summer on D ?   

1. Erik Johnson, 35
2. Damon Severson, 28
3. Scott Mayfield, 30
4. Matt Dumba, 28
5. Connor Clifton, 28
6. Justin Holl, 31
7. Radko Gudas, 33
8. Kevin Shattenkirk, 34
9. Trevor van Riemsdyk, 31
10. Steven Santini, 28
11. Travis Harmonic, 32
12. Brady Keeper, 27
13. Luke Schenn, 33

That list is just UFA right shot d in no particular order. 

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

But the '24 2nd isn't included in your writeup.  The Otters gave up their '23 1st (w/ conditions that could slide it to '24), Washington's '24 2nd (w/ conditions that it could become a 1st in '25) , and their '26 2nd.  You seem to be missing a pick.

omg I will edit for you

[TageMVP]

Still got over an entire day left Something could happen 

Come on Boone Jenner 

[JustOneParade]

17 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Aren’t you arguing for a solution without a problem, though? Don’t we actually have our top four defensemen for the next 4-6 years?

@SwampD I don't know if your question was asked of me. The posts are coming fast and furious. If so, I am making the assumption in my post that Joki is not a top-4 D-man (even though he's being deployed as such presently). If he is, then the first part of my post is easier to fix as the Sabres would then be looking for a bottom pair D-man.

[phil_soisson]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

To be honest I think he’s merely following the script he planned and is unwilling to deviate barring obvious help.

He wants to win but sees little value in making moves that may negatively affect the vibes. 
 

I want moves but I’m also on the conservative side. I’m disinterested in giant risk-laden trades. So I don’t want Parynko or Provorov or to trade Savoie/Kulich 

 

All in all I’m disappointed in the lack of help but not pulling out my hair over it

 "I want moves but I’m also on the conservative side. I’m disinterested in giant risk-laden trades". I think GMTM left many with that feeling. We may have reached the polar opposite now. The actual price the Sens paid for Chychrun seemed considerably below the prognosticated price, and one the Sabres by all accounts could have met, or exceeded. We're not talking about breaking the bank to go off script.

[DarthEbriate]

10 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Can I ask what UFA's will be available this summer on D ?   

A full list with some RFAs here: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/free-agents/2024/caphit/all/defense?stats-season=2023   Several of the enticing ones (Dunn, Miller) will get locked up by their current teams before hitting free agency. Unlikely to find any top-4 available in UFA this summer, but there will be lots of 5/6/7 options.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, JustOneParade said:

@SwampD I don't know if your question was asked of me. The posts are coming fast and furious. If so, I am making the assumption in my post that Joki is not a top-4 D-man (even though he's being deployed as such presently). If he is, then the first part of my post is easier to fix as the Sabres would then be looking for a bottom pair D-man.

Sorry, I should have quoted LGR’s OP. 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

26 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Aren’t you arguing for a solution without a problem, though? Don’t we actually have our top four defensemen for the next 4-6 years?

Yes, and no.... We have Dahlin, Power, and Muel which are a great top 3, but we do not have that lock down physical defensive defenseman that will protect the front of the net. If we were not scoring 6 a game we would not be close to a playoff spot. Our defense is defensively terrible! 

[Brawndo]

Let me throw it another scenario. What is the assets are used to acquire a bona fide starting goaltender? 
 

David Poille was on the Jeff Marek show, and basically said no one on the Nashville roster is untouchable. 
 

Jusse Saros, has two years remaining on his deal after this one which is outside of Nashville, competitive window. They also have.Asakrov in Milwaukee right now, so they have their next starting goaltender in the wings. 
 

Devon Levi models his game after Saros, wouldn’t it make sense to try to bring in someone who is a Vezina caliber goaltender For the next two seasons, and possibly beyond as he is only 27 years old, and have him be a bridge to Levi? 
 

If they can compose a deal involving the Sabres 2023, first round pick with conditions a 2023 second round pick and possibly Rosen for Saros and Fabbro, wouldn’t that be a better use of assets. 
 

The caveat is the deal needs to be completed, however. 
 

I’m not gonna get upset about any deals that did not happen until the draft, if the Sabres end up making all four of the picks they are scheduled to make in the 2023 draft, I will be probably feel differently. 
 

Also, Boston now has 14 skaters sign for next year and $6 million in cap space. Can I offer the Sabres second round pick in 2023 for Swayman and Reilly as a cap dump? 

[dudacek]

Big picture question: would the Sabres be better off on Oct. 1 2023 having:

• Traded an unprotected #1 and 2 2nds for 2 years of a Jakub Chychrun level player at $4.6 million at the deadline
• Traded 2 2nds for 2 years of a Jake McCabe level player at $4 million at the deadline
• Traded 2 2nds to rent a Dimitri Orlov level player
• Signed a Radko Gudas level player to a 2-year $6 milion deal in free agency
• Signed a Scott Mayfield level player to a 4-year $15 milion deal in free agency
• Signed a Damon Severson level player to a 4-year $20 milion deal in free agency
• Keep your powder dry to see what pops open on the trade market at the draft due to contracts and rebuilds

I guess what I'm saying is, the only real problem with not trading for defence yesterday is missing out on the defencemen who have been moved.

Opportunities remain and Adams will make a move when he thinks the price and timing are correct. Hopefully it's sooner, rather than later, hopefully it's for the right players at the right price.

It was just over 2 years ago we had way too many RHD and only a year ago we were desperately worried about our prospect pipeline at centre ice.

Defence definitely needs to be addressed, but depth charts are pretty fluid.

(To answer my opening question, I haven't got a clue)

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Let me throw it another scenario. What is the assets are used to acquire a bona fide starting goaltender? 
 

David Poille was on the Jeff Marek show, and basically said no one on the Nashville roster is untouchable. 
 

Jusse Saros, has two years remaining on his deal after this one which is outside of Nashville, competitive window. They also have.Asakrov in Milwaukee right now, so they have their next starting goaltender in the wings. 
 

Devon Levi models his game after Saros, wouldn’t it make sense to try to bring in someone who is a Vezina caliber goaltender For the next two seasons, and possibly beyond as he is only 27 years old, and have him be a bridge to Levi? 
 

If they can compose a deal involving the Sabres 2023, first round pick with conditions a 2023 second round pick and possibly Rosen for Saros and Fabbro, wouldn’t that be a better use of assets. 
 

The caveat is the deal needs to be completed, however. 
 

I’m not gonna get upset about any deals that did not happen until the draft, if the Sabres end up making all four of the picks they are scheduled to make in the 2023 draft, I will be probably feel differently. 
 

Also, Boston now has 14 skaters sign for next year and $6 million in cap space. Can I offer the Sabres second round pick in 2023 for Swayman and Reilly as a cap dump? 

That deal happens I would be extremely happy. I am not trying to yell at Adams but just talking about why I am disappointed, right now with the deadline still 24 hours away. Still time to upgrade stuff. 

[Brawndo]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

1. Erik Johnson, 35
2. Damon Severson, 28
3. Scott Mayfield, 30
4. Matt Dumba, 28
5. Connor Clifton, 28
6. Justin Holl, 31
7. Radko Gudas, 33
8. Kevin Shattenkirk, 34
9. Trevor van Riemsdyk, 31
10. Steven Santini, 28
11. Travis Harmonic, 32
12. Brady Keeper, 27
13. Luke Schenn, 33

That list is just UFA right shot d in no particular order. 

omg I will edit for you

Severson would be an outstanding signing. He’s 28 and has good metrics, would easily be Power’s Partner. 
 

Gudas would be a good add too

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Big picture question: would the Sabres be better off on Oct. 1 2023 having:

• Traded an unprotected #1 and 2 2nds for 2 years of a Jakub Chychrun level player at $4.6 million at the deadline
• Traded 2 2nds for 2 years of a Jake McCabe level player at $4 million at the deadline
• Traded 2 2nds to rent a Dimitri Orlov level player
• Signed a Radko Gudas level player to a 2-year $6 milion deal in free agency
• Signed a Scott Mayfield level player to a 4-year $15 milion deal in free agency
• Signed a Damon Severson level player to a 4-year $20 milion deal in free agency
• Keep your powder dry to see what pops open on the trade market at the draft due to contracts and rebuilds

I guess what I'm saying is, the only real problem with not trading for defence yesterday is missing out on the defencemen who have been moved.

Opportunities remain and Adams will make a move when he thinks the price and timing are correct. Hopefully it's sooner, rather than later, hopefully it's for the right players at the right price.

It was just over 2 years ago we had way too many RHD and only a year ago we were desperately worried about our prospect pipeline at centre ice.

Defence definitely needs to be addressed, but depth charts are pretty fluid.

(To answer my opening question, I haven't got a clue)

It wasn't an unprotected #1 though. It was very much protected. 

[DarthEbriate]

One note: because of retention, McCabe is only costing the Leafs $2M/year each of the next two seasons. That's a fantastic deal for a guy who can be a 4 with the right partner, and excel as a 5.

[SwampD]

8 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Yes, and no.... We have Dahlin, Power, and Muel which are a great top 3, but we do not have that lock down physical defensive defenseman that will protect the front of the net. If we were not scoring 6 a game we would not be close to a playoff spot. Our defense is defensively terrible! 

I disagree. If we miss the playoffs this year. It won’t be because of our #4 Dman.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, SwampD said:

I disagree. If we miss the playoffs this year. It won’t be because of our #4 Dman.

No it will be because of goaltending.