GDT: Leafs @ Sabres, Feb 21, 2023, 7:30 pm; ESPN

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, K-9 said:

Somebody convince me that this team is not gonna get its butt kicked by two teams that have absolutely owned us when we face the Lightning and Panthers later this week. Seriously, tell me why I should think we have any chance at all. 

Because every game is a new game.   Because young teams learn hard lessons.   Because anything can happen.  Because you are a fan (which is short for fanatic). 

[inkman]

Glass half full, it was only one game. 

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Even the ESPN crew was saying Adam's needs to bring in a vet or 2 to show the kids some stability.

The TNT crew, all 6 of them, said that same thing months ago when we torched Columbus for 6 in the first and then gave up a bunch of soft goals as the game went on.   Everyone in the league knows we are very young, we need goaltending, we play poor team defense, and we do not have a physical game.  Every single hockey broadcaster on every network in every city.  

They also know we have some excellent emerging talent in the league with Dahlin, Thompson, Power and Cozens and we have a few solid pieces like Tuch and Kyle, and we have more youth coming up.   

Like it or not, this is a slow rebuild, but look at the progress after 2 years of KA and it seems not that slow.  

Edited February 22, 2023 by Pimlach

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Like the folks on GR said, you do not have to fast forward the build, just forward it!!!! This is close enough where we can better this team in what we need without it being a rental. Are they going to be a SC contender?? Who knows..... you have to get there first! This group will not make it without a bit of help.

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

Wake me up when training camp starts for the Bills.

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, SwampD said:

No way. Listen to them talk about being on the road. They love it. It’s a ***** party. At home, they are all buttoned up.

Nope.   Opposite.  On the road they are focused on hockey all day and night - it is not a party, They are not that team.   They don't have time to sight see and hang out at bars  (Eichel, Reinhart, Kane and Bogo are gone).   

At home they do other things - wives, GF's, kids, toys, hanging out playing video games.   They are just not as prepared to play at home.  

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, NJhopelessSabresfan66 said:

It is the same problem with this team..... Not going to change... You can xerox that post and put it up most games. Pressure the team, they fold, not grit, no balls to defend or goto the front of the offensive net, etc etc etc. They have more young talent that fills 1 full line and 1 or 2 of a 2nd line. We do not have a strong defensive defenseman. (At least not one thats consistant). They are exciting to watch though. Patience on waiting for a ***** team to get better SHOULD NOT BE A BUFFALO THING!!!! We accept that though as that is our lot in life. Thursday i will goto my hockey room with my Sabres gear, snacks and hope to stay in for longer then 10 minutes into the first period. 

You stop watching after 10 minutes?  I never understood that behavior.  You talk about the team being soft and having no grit. ? 

[nucci]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You stop watching after 10 minutes?  I never understood that behavior.  You talk about the team being soft and having no grit. ? 

I did walk away after 4-0 but came back soon after. In my younger days I would have broken something but I've matured a little

[mjd1001]

26 minutes ago, NJhopelessSabresfan66 said:

Like the folks on GR said, you do not have to fast forward the build, just forward it!!!! This is close enough where we can better this team in what we need without it being a rental. Are they going to be a SC contender?? Who knows..... you have to get there first! This group will not make it without a bit of help.

This year New Jersey is currently 3rd in the league in points. Hughes is playing like one of the top 5 forwards in the league.  Last year they were FIFTH WORST in the league.  Hughes missed some games last year but even when he played the team wasn't as good as it is this year.   The point? Young teams take time.  They take a step forward from being an average team to a very good team when they are ready, NOT when the fan base wants.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

14 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You stop watching after 10 minutes?  I never understood that behavior.  You talk about the team being soft and having no grit. ? 

I will make it easy for all to understand.... I am a fan, not a masochist!!! LOL I am not watching the same thing we see most nights of inept hockey.

This is why i left the other Sabres board (RIP GOAT!!) ...are we are really questioning fandom here? I do not drink Sabres Kool aid and do not rah rah when the team is hot garbage. This is not a playoff team and not a contender for anything right now. Since day one of the Sabres i have seen too much rebuilding and not enough contending. I am not going to watch my team getting manhandled and outplayed night after night as it is forever frustration that this team will never figure it out. Like i said, i will be back next game, ready to go, but i know when the cause is lost and move on to other things. Last night, that cause was lost after 2-0 but hung on to 4-0. 

One last thing.... I am a thrower... so it helps me break less!!

Maybe that explanation helps! 🙂 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, NJhopelessSabresfan66 said:

It is the same problem with this team..... Not going to change... You can xerox that post and put it up most games. Pressure the team, they fold, not grit, no balls to defend or goto the front of the offensive net, etc etc etc. They have more young talent that fills 1 full line and 1 or 2 of a 2nd line. We do not have a strong defensive defenseman. (At least not one thats consistant). They are exciting to watch though. Patience on waiting for a ***** team to get better SHOULD NOT BE A BUFFALO THING!!!! We accept that though as that is our lot in life. Thursday i will goto my hockey room with my Sabres gear, snacks and hope to stay in for longer then 10 minutes into the first period. 

I watched some of the goals allowed and think that the lack of Grit and them 'folding' wasn't a huge issue last night.

The goals the allowed, they were mostly players being out of position or making mistakes.  Bring in 'more grit' like when Risto was here (maybe a bad example he really isn't that good) and many of those players make MORE mistakes just to make a hit.  The goals they allowed last night were a result of bad line changes (Samuelson carrying the puck up the ice, falling down leaving no one back on D at all because that exact moment Power left the ice on a change), Forwards out of position in the D-zone (Thompson going to the boards, the D-men getting split and Skinner/Tuch not covering the vacated open zones), Bad SH positioning (Lybushkin chasing the puck to the boards, and instead of Krebs covering the spot, he follows Lybushkin litterly 3 feet behind him to the same spot leaving the slot open). 

Also, the Sabres style of play is to push the puck up the ice. D-men pinch and join the rush.  SOME games doing that is going to be the reason you score a few goals and win, other games the bounces will not go your way and it will be the reason you lose.  It just happens. The best team in the NHL doesn't win every game, and the style the Sabres play leads to having some bad goals allowed.

Those things are not corrected by extra effort, "Grit" or "Balls".  Those things are corrected with experience, knowing your linemates and partners evern BETTER and much better communication on the ice.  ALL teams have games where those mistakes are made. Young teams have more games like that.  Teams like Boston aren't that much more talented than everyone else, they are successful because they make the FEWEST mistakes like that.  

Now, I'm not saying that having another '100% effort, all the time guy' or a bigger, physical guy added to this roster wouldn't make them better. It might and probably would. But not having that guy is not the reason they lost last night. Inexperience, bad positioning, and a few plays where players didn't backcheck hard/made bad decisions/or had bad giveaways (Krebs, Krebs, Krebs, and one time Quinn and Skinner) are the reason.

Edited February 22, 2023 by mjd1001

[K-9]

35 minutes ago, inkman said:

Glass half full, it was only one game. 

I’ve always appreciated an optimistic viewpoint, but the “it’s only one game” philosophy is difficult to embrace when we’ve been outscored 18-6 in our last three home games. Seems we’ve had several “only one game” moments this season and it’s worn on me more than in previous seasons.

I’ve always believed it’s all about the journey, especially when it comes to rooting for my favorite teams because the odds of winning it all are against it and only one team can be the champ each year. So it has to he about the journey and the nuggets gathered along the way. But ever since the Damar Hamlin incident, I just can’t even get into being on the journey any more. It’s an entirely new experience as a fan and it’s concerning. Getting that joy back will be, as Rob Ray would say, “a tough road to swallow.” 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm going to post my thoughts and then leave for the day. Honestly I get sick and tired of the team stromcloud posters who we don't hear from during the wins but come in with the same tired and incorrect takes after a loss. Fun fact, we outhit Toronto last night and outshot them in the end. But hey, yea it's all physicality for why we lost... what a myopic and simplistic take. 

The Good: there is not a lot but it was nice to see Alex Tuch and Rasmus Dahlin start laying the physical play on after going down 4-0 but you gotta do when it is 0-0. I thought both tried to elevate their games after the slow start. I think physicality does matter and the Sabres were overwhelmed at times by Toronto's but it wasn't because they don't have a big strong physical team, it was because they came out with less intensity... welcome to the stretch run where every game matters. 

Jack Quinn might be the smartest forward we have and the game is slowing for him. There were several times last night where he simply made plays or passes that I don't think anyone else on this team would. He needs another 15lbs of muscle but there is a lot to like in his game and it keeps improving. 

Craig Anderson came in and other than the PP goal, shut everything down and provided a calming presence. Good. 

The Bad: this team was not ready to play. Now I know many say that is coaching but I disagree. When they finally were ready to play they played exceedingly well but they showed again last night that haven't come to grips with the level they will need to sustain to make the playoffs. 

The coaches need to reinvent their pp and pk because right now it is trash. They also contributed to the loss because quite honestly they aren't getting the message through that this is the stretch run, win and you are in. Lose and it is just like every other year. Also I am tossing Adams into this hole too. Get some f###ing defensive help, trade Rosen, Bryson, whatever else for Jacob Chychrun or similar. 

UPL was bad. Marty Biron said it this morning on WGR that most teams start slow after a west coast swing and they need their goalie to help a bit. UPL didn't help at all and before his defenders jump on me, no every goal was not his fault but I gotta say the 4th goal and ROR's 2nd I would like a goalie to make a save, or even touch the puck. He didn't help last nice and deserved to be pulled. When does Levi get here? 

The bottom 6 last night sucked. They were very ineffective and I liked Okposo tossing some hits but there was a lot of them getting hemmed in their zone and making passes into traffic. 

The Ugly: the first period was total garbage and the team should be forced to show up early today to watch that again. Maybe the coaches can explain in detail why they sucked. Owen Power in the first was awful (he rebounded well though), Tyson Jost I disliked yesterday, and Jacob Bryson can go now. 

Jacob Bryson... Im done with him. Idc if he is liked in the room or any of that jazz, he doesn't have the strength, length, or ability to be an effective top 6 defender in the NHL. Multiple times last night the puck skipped by or through him and he wasn't fast enough or strong enough to recover it. Along the boards he is basically useless. There is this false belief around here that I think size doesn't matter at all, I don't. Bryson is too small for the type of defender he is to be successful in the NHL long term. We need someone on that 3rd pair that is bigger and hard to play against. 

ROR, they let him get a hat trick just like Jack Eichel and honestly, that pisses me off quite a bit. For a fanbase that was forced to suffer those two jack wagons, the team should have risen to the occasion better. 

Finally the home record. I heard we are 2-7 in our last 9 home games now. I would put that on the bulletin board and let the team know that every time a kid comes to a game they are more likely to watch a pathetic half hearted loss than a win. I should burn my kids first game certificate because I was a previous home loss of epic crapitude. The fans deserve better. 

They were not good but it wasn't simply because they didn't hit stuff, it was because they didn't hit stuff or play well. 

Cannot argue with this.

The first few shifts we looked ok, we had scoring chances but we missed the net every time (Cozens, Skinner, and Thompson each).  Then the Leaves choked out the neutral zone and started hitting and the game changed.  Eleven minutes and four goals and I don't think a Sabre ever even touched a Toronto player.   Whatever happened to starting a game with a statement?  Finally Tuch started pushing back and so did Dahlin.   We need this from more players. If the players we have wont do it then we need to find players that will. 

We got no lift from UPL.   I thought Samuelsson and Power and Joker were all not very good last night.  As you said Bryson is a liability.   No one on the 3rd and 4th line did their jobs.  Maybe Kyle here and there showed some life.  The others were invisible.  

Quinn is emerging a bit but carrying him and Peterka all season long has been a liability against good teams.  Cozens needs veteran help on his line.  

The poor home record coupled with the lack of passion to play big games at home may be the undoing of the season.   I was at the Calgary game and the excuse was the long rest.   This one was worse and the excuse is the west coast road trip.  Both are just excuses.  The team has to simply be harder to play against.  They make it hard to rebuild the fan base when they get embarrassed at home.  

On to Florida for back to back fun.    

[Pimlach]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’ve always appreciated an optimistic viewpoint, but the “it’s only one game” philosophy is difficult to embrace when we’ve been outscored 18-6 in our last three home games. Seems we’ve had several “only one game” moments this season and it’s worn on me more than in previous seasons.

I’ve always believed it’s all about the journey, especially when it comes to rooting for my favorite teams because the odds of winning it all are against it and only one team can be the champ each year. So it has to he about the journey and the nuggets gathered along the way. But ever since the Damar Hamlin incident, I just can’t even get into being on the journey any more. It’s an entirely new experience as a fan and it’s concerning. Getting that joy back will be, as Rob Ray would say, “a tough road to swallow.” 

The Damar Hamlin incident marked the beginning of the end for the Bills season.   They were getting soundly beat at the time of the tragic event, and the team hung together to win a few more games, but the Cinci playoff game was just a continuation of the MNF game.   The Bills have been exposed.  I see the Bills in need of a re-tooling, not a full re-build. 

I see the Sabres as a team on the rise, despite their propensity for terrible games mixed in with the good.    If the FO can make the correct next steps they should be better next season.  Their competition will not stand still, so Adams and company have much more work to do than just waiting for prospects to develop.   

[triumph_communes]

We have a development coach who just wants to keep developing. Hammer and a nail. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Skibum said:

The Sabres still look like little kids when up against cagey veterans on winning teams. I suppose they can yet earn a playoff spot, but they are going to get annihilated in round 1. 

If they draw the Canes they're toast.

If they draw the B's, it'll be a good series.  They match up better against the better team of the 2 division leaders.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, NJhopelessSabresfan66 said:

I will make it easy for all to understand.... I am a fan, not a masochist!!! LOL I am not watching the same thing we see most nights of inept hockey.

This is why i left the other Sabres board (RIP GOAT!!) ...are we are really questioning fandom here? I do not drink Sabres Kool aid and do not rah rah when the team is hot garbage. This is not a playoff team and not a contender for anything right now. Since day one of the Sabres i have seen too much rebuilding and not enough contending. I am not going to watch my team getting manhandled and outplayed night after night as it is forever frustration that this team will never figure it out. Like i said, i will be back next game, ready to go, but i know when the cause is lost and move on to other things. Last night, that cause was lost after 2-0 but hung on to 4-0. 

One last thing.... I am a thrower... so it helps me break less!!

Maybe that explanation helps! 🙂 

You explanation doesn't help or hurt.  You explained yourself, so be it. 

-   You do not think they are a playoff contender right now

-  You quit watching when they fall behind and you throw and break things

-  You associate the team and players they have right now with all the past teams and players, as if they are the same

-  You do not really know the Sabres history since day 1, unless your day 1 starts in 2011

I think I've got it.  

 

 

[Huckleberry]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm going to post my thoughts and then leave for the day. Honestly I get sick and tired of the team stromcloud posters who we don't hear from during the wins but come in with the same tired and incorrect takes after a loss. Fun fact, we outhit Toronto last night and outshot them in the end. But hey, yea it's all physicality for why we lost... what a myopic and simplistic take. 

 

I been trying to not react with all the doom and gloom takes, but they are so wrong sometimes.   
We all know our goalie situation isn't good, but its not good for 15 teams in this league.    We don't need a 3C that will come from within, and yeah we all know we need a 2RHD for power.

I think I just see this team different as some, they are already going over my expectations for the season, its march and we are in the thick of a wildcard spot with games in hand.  I sea this team playing with more heart than I have in over a decade.

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Nope.   Opposite.  On the road they are focused on hockey all day and night - it is not a party, They are not that team.   They don't have time to sight see and hang out at bars  (Eichel, Reinhart, Kane and Bogo are gone).   

At home they do other things - wives, GF's, kids, toys, hanging out playing video games.   They are just not as prepared to play at home.  

You obviously didn't listen to the Dahlin interview.

I love the choirboy view some people have of hockey players.

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

You obviously didn't listen to the Dahlin interview.

I love the choirboy view some people have of hockey players.

I did.  I interpret it differently.  

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I did.  I interpret it differently.  

If there are 15 guys, sitting around a table eating dinner, they ain't talking about their system and drinking Powerade.

Edited February 22, 2023 by SwampD

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, SwampD said:

You obviously didn't listen to the Dahlin interview.

I love the choirboy view some people have of hockey players.

There's a reason a lot of the players favorite away venue is Vegas.

[Pimlach]

16 minutes ago, SwampD said:

If there are 15 guys, sitting around a table eating dinner, they ain't talking about their system and drinking Powerade.

I am well aware of hockey players life on the road.   Who cares what they talk about?  Surely, this group is close-knit and they have fun, and they party and they are not choir boys. No doubt.  

But they do not party to excess like some past players were known for -  this group sticks together and gets the job done on the road.  It is the togetherness (as opposed to factions and cliques), not the drinking and partying, that works on the road.   Everyone associated with the team says they are extremely focused on the road and they use their preparation time wisely.  I think they take their job seriously on the road because they are away from all other distractions and they follow a good routine.  

The proof is in the record. They are flat when they play at home.  That to me is a sign of distraction and maybe they do not have a strict enough routine set by the coach when at home?  Home means - wives, kids, GF's, houses, cars, toys, and whatever else is going on.     Whatever the reasons,  Granato needs to figure out how to get these guys prepared and up for home games.  

[nucci]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I am well aware of hockey players life on the road.   Who cares what they talk about?  Surely, this group is close-knit and they have fun, and they party and they are not choir boys. No doubt.  

But they do not party to excess like some past players were known for -  this group sticks together and gets the job done on the road.  It is the togetherness (as opposed to factions and cliques), not the drinking and partying, that works on the road.   Everyone associated with the team says they are extremely focused on the road and they use their preparation time wisely.  I think they take their job seriously on the road because they are away from all other distractions and they follow a good routine.  

The proof is in the record. They are flat when they play at home.  That to me is a sign of distraction and maybe they do not have a strict enough routine set by the coach when at home?  Home means - wives, kids, GF's, houses, cars, toys, and whatever else is going on.     Whatever the reasons,  Granato needs to figure out how to get these guys prepared and up for home games.  

I agree but it's up to the players to be prepared and ready to play. It's their job

[Pimlach]

34 minutes ago, nucci said:

I agree but it's up to the players to be prepared and ready to play. It's their job

Granato says the same thing.  He also has said numerous times that this is common with young players.   I would say this has gone on long enough, the last three home games they have played terrible periods of hockey against the Canes, the Flames, and now Toronto.   This is more than not enough rest (Canes), too much rest (Flames), just got back from the west coast (Leaves) - all excuses.   

So now it is up to him to look at what is going on with these guys and take action to fix it.  The old adage, its easier to blame 1 coach than it is 22 players.