GDT: Sabres @ Sharks, Feb 18, 2023, 10:30pm, MSG 📺 WGR 📻

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I don’t overly focus on differential but the the bolded  just doesn’t happen unless the first goalie gets way more goal support than average and the second goalie gets way less.  

Wins and losses are a team stat.  

The goalie stoppage rate doesn't necessarily reflect the caliber of defensive play in front of him. And that includes the play not only of the blue liners but also the forwards. In yesterday's game, UPL made a lot of difficult stops that aren't necessarily reflected by the stoppage rate. The Sabres game/philosophy is predicated more on its offense than defense. That's because of the roster construction.  So, I still strongly believe that the stoppage % in some systems is less important than the winning %. Ultimately, that statistic is the most important statistic in all sports. 

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The goalie stoppage rate doesn't necessarily reflect the caliber of defensive play in front of him. And that includes the play not only of the blue liners but also the forwards. In yesterday's game, UPL made a lot of difficult stops that aren't necessarily reflected by the stoppage rate. The Sabres game/philosophy is predicated more on its offense than defense. That's because of the roster construction.  So, I still strongly believe that the stoppage % in some systems is less important than the winning %. Ultimately, that statistic is the most important statistic in all sports. 

UPL had a  sv% of 943 last night and he won.  Kakko was .900 and he lost.  UPL had more high danger shots and more shots on him overall.  Sv% matters.  
 

Your point is a statistical outlier not valid over the course of a season.  Look at Ullmark and tell me me he doesn’t benefit from the team in front of him.  

[JohnC]

Just now, Pimlach said:

UPL had a  sv% of 943 last night and he won.  Kakko was .900 and he lost.  UPL had more high danger shots and more shots on him overall.  Sv% matters.  
 

Your point is a statistical outlier not valid over the course of a season.  Look at Ullmark and tell me me he doesn’t benefit from the team in front of him.  

Ullmark certainly does benefit from the play of his mates. That's my point. The goalie stats don't necessarily reflect the caliber of play of the goalie. UPL save stat is yesterday's game was excellent. But collectively in other games his save stat didn't necessarily reflect the caliber of his play because of the loose play in front of him. My central point in my original post is that the most important stat over an extended period of time is the winning percentage. And on that score UPL is doing fine. He's far from being a finished product but he is an important factor in our wins. 

[DarthEbriate]

I was babysitting and didn't catch the game live. Based on stats, I skipped to Power's goal and only watched the 3rd on streaming this morning...   Excellent 3rd period! Beating the bottom feeders is what good teams do and the Sabres managed it.

Next up, a stretch through the top of the division. It should be fun and filled with entertainment and apprehension.

[LGR4GM]

42 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Ullmark certainly does benefit from the play of his mates. That's my point. The goalie stats don't necessarily reflect the caliber of play of the goalie. UPL save stat is yesterday's game was excellent. But collectively in other games his save stat didn't necessarily reflect the caliber of his play because of the loose play in front of him. My central point in my original post is that the most important stat over an extended period of time is the winning percentage. And on that score UPL is doing fine. He's far from being a finished product but he is an important factor in our wins. 

So you're using wins as the goaltending stat claiming it's not showing the play in front of the goalie?

[K-9]

34 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I was babysitting and didn't catch the game live. Based on stats, I skipped to Power's goal and only watched the 3rd on streaming this morning...   Excellent 3rd period! Beating the bottom feeders is what good teams do and the Sabres managed it.

Next up, a stretch through the top of the division. It should be fun and filled with entertainment and apprehension.

If we play like we’ve been over the last half dozen games or so, we are gonna get our ***** handed to us by the teams coming up. That said, we finally came to play in the 3rd last night so I’m hoping it’s something to build on.

[dudacek]

12 hours ago, Thorny said:

Long overdue 

When you have a sub 900 sv %, you better add in a few Steals 

Luukkonen has 5 games with a sv % over .940 and 3 more over .923.

Since UPL “got good” (mid-December), he is at .910, good for 19th in the league among goalies with 10 or more starts.

I think he’s been inconsistent, and I’m not sure he’s the answer, but statistically he has mostly been doing his job.

 

 

[Norcal]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

I was babysitting and didn't catch the game live. Based on stats, I skipped to Power's goal and only watched the 3rd on streaming this morning...   Excellent 3rd period! Beating the bottom feeders is what good teams do and the Sabres managed it.

Next up, a stretch through the top of the division. It should be fun and filled with entertainment and apprehension.

U chose wisely. That's about all the watchable game there was, other than some incredible UPL saves mixed in. 

[klos1963]

13 hours ago, Pimlach said:

He is better than Karlsson. 

But man, Karlsson is still so good.  Love watching him play.

[Pimlach]

38 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

But man, Karlsson is still so good.  Love watching him play.

Yes he is, he is the best offensively.   

Dahlin is better defensively, he is physically much tougher and brings more presence and jam, and he is still right there offensively with Karlsson.   

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

So you're using wins as the goaltending stat claiming it's not showing the play in front of the goalie?

It's the opposite of what I am saying. I'm not being dismissive of the utility of stats. What I am saying is that they don't always reflect the caliber of play. Stats are a tool to be used and not be chained to. They are numbers that without context (team play, injuries, style of play, tough scheduling, travel, back to back etc.) are not always illustrative of what the numbers indicate. The won/loss record is in itself a metric. I give great value to it.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes he is, he is the best offensively.   

Dahlin is better defensively, he is physically much tougher and brings more presence and jam, and he is still right there offensively with Karlsson.   

I only watched the first period of the game. I thought that Karlsson was the most compelling player to watch when he was on the ice, which seemed that he was always on the ice. Dahlin is getting better on offense and is rounding out his game. In my opinion Karlsson is better on offense. If I had a choice between the two players I would take Dahlin because his play at both ends is better and getting better. 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Luukkonen has 5 games with a sv % over .940 and 3 more over .923.

Since UPL “got good” (mid-December), he is at .910, good for 19th in the league among goalies with 10 or more starts.

I think he’s been inconsistent, and I’m not sure he’s the answer, but statistically he has mostly been doing his job.

 

 

The Carolina and Calgary games are still too recent for me to think UPL has finally turned the corner on his consistency issues. It’s maddening because he has a game like last night and I wanna believe he has figured it out. Been fooled too many times over too many years though. 

[Pimlach]

54 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I only watched the first period of the game. I thought that Karlsson was the most compelling player to watch when he was on the ice, which seemed that he was always on the ice. Dahlin is getting better on offense and is rounding out his game. In my opinion Karlsson is better on offense. If I had a choice between the two players I would take Dahlin because his play at both ends is better and getting better. 

I said Karlsson is the best offensively, his stats bear it out.  He is also 32 years old and is still a minus player, as he has been for almost every season in his career.   

Dahlin is a better overall defenseman right now at 22 years of age. All that said, Karlsson will probably get the Norris this season unless the Sabres make the playoffs and Dahlin continues to put this team on his back.  

[Huckleberry]

On 2/18/2023 at 4:24 PM, Buffalonill said:

Hockey night in Canada then Sabres hockey.

 

Well seems im the one keeping the win streak going, really post number 4 ? 😛

[matter2003]

On 2/19/2023 at 3:56 AM, LGR4GM said:

 

Can we just ask to play like 60 road games?

[inkman]

19 hours ago, klos1963 said:

But man, Karlsson is still so good.  Love watching him play.

 

18 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yes he is, he is the best offensively.   

Dahlin is better defensively, he is physically much tougher and brings more presence and jam, and he is still right there offensively with Karlsson.   

 

18 hours ago, JohnC said:

I only watched the first period of the game. I thought that Karlsson was the most compelling player to watch when he was on the ice, which seemed that he was always on the ice. Dahlin is getting better on offense and is rounding out his game. In my opinion Karlsson is better on offense. If I had a choice between the two players I would take Dahlin because his play at both ends is better and getting better. 

 

17 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I said Karlsson is the best offensively, his stats bear it out.  He is also 32 years old and is still a minus player, as he has been for almost every season in his career.   

Dahlin is a better overall defenseman right now at 22 years of age. All that said, Karlsson will probably get the Norris this season unless the Sabres make the playoffs and Dahlin continues to put this team on his back.  

Don’t let Paul Hamilton read any of this.  He said Karlsson’s defense on Saturday was the worst he’s ever seen in the NHL.  Having survived the messy balls debacle we had with Benoit & Meszaros that was the 2014-2015 season, I doubt that’s the worst defense Paul has ever seen. 

[Pimlach]

11 minutes ago, inkman said:

 

 

 

Don’t let Paul Hamilton read any of this.  He said Karlsson’s defense on Saturday was the worst he’s ever seen in the NHL.  Having survived the messy balls debacle we had with Benoit & Meszaros that was the 2014-2015 season, I doubt that’s the worst defense Paul has ever seen. 

Probably not, but Karlsson is a forward that plays defense.  He is a gifted but one dimensional player and always has been.  

He is always a threat to score when on the ice but over about 900 games now it is safe to say that good defensive play is not his forte.  

If the Sabres are protecting a one goal lead with one minute left 22 year old Dahlin is definitely going to be on the ice, not sure 32 year old Karlsson plays that role for his team.  

Edited February 20, 2023 by Pimlach

[Richard Noggin]

I'm seeing Dahlin's age (22) mentioned in this thread and it's suddenly surprising how young he still is.