The New Bally RSN Thread.

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

The regional blackouts give revenue to the local cable networks/broadcast stations.  Perhaps that will be a thing of the past at some point, but it isn't that there is "no reason" why they exist.  There are lots of reasons:  Existing contracts with cable providers and local stations that grant them the franchise for their markets.  As long as cable networks are major players in major league sports markets, there is a valid reason for the blackouts.  You may not like or agree with the reason, but it's a valid reason.  You *could* very well see every NHL game.  But you've cut yourself off from your local content provider.  Too bad, so sad for you.

I think you missed my point entirely.

[Doohicksie]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:56 PM, Eleven said:

There really is no good reason why the NHL--or any league other than the NFL--can't go to a streaming subscription with no blackouts other than refusal to do so.  Yes, the league and its teams have contracts with RSNs.  All contracts can be renegotiated, and, in this case, if a league trailing everything in terms of popularity wants to move up, they should be renegotiated.

Yes there is:  If the NHL cuts out local providers, they don't get revenues from those providers.  If they cut off the local providers, the lose all the viewers (and attendant advertising revenue) who are still watching on cable.  Not everyone has moved to the streaming-only model.  Just because you have doesn't mean everyone else has (or should, for that matter).

[Doohicksie]

It's not so much of the new generation of viewers coming on line, it's a matter of the old generation literally dying off.  My mom (in her 80s) doesn't have any kind of internet connection to her house, other than her cell phone (which she still uses pretty much just to make calls).

I'm 60 and while I have streaming I still subscribe to a local cable provider.  It seems expensive until I start looking à la carte plans for streaming providers and then suddenly I'm paying just as much for the streaming services as I am for cable.

On 2/16/2023 at 6:56 PM, Eleven said:

Current practice is stupid, it's greedy

Welcome to capitalism.  Don't think that's going to change for the better any time soon.

[Doohicksie]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I think you missed my point entirely.

Apparently because what you say makes no sense to me.

You say "there should be no reason" but there are lots of reasons.

[Eleven]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Apparently because what you say makes no sense to me.

You say "there should be no reason" but there are lots of reasons.

But in 2023, there should be no reason.  There really shouldn't.  This system is obsolete and stupid and there is a way to get RSNs paid without all the blackouts.

[Radar]

I have cable and Roku . As Dookie said paying for streaming apps seems not to be a savings. Admittedly at age 80 I'm not very tech savvy that's for sure. I live in Western NY and carry Spectrum basically for Sabres and Mets baseball (SNY for Mets and MSG for Sabres). 

[nucci]

18 hours ago, Brawndo said:

MSG announced that MSG Plus will debut in the Fall of 2023. 
Charge a yearly payment of 250 dollars and lift the local blackouts 

The Sabres get approximately 20 Million per year from MSG, this would probably increase that given the number of people in the WNY Area who are cord cutters 

I'm not in Buffalo anymore so I'm able to watch Sabre games on ESPN+ 

[PromoTheRobot]

37 minutes ago, nucci said:

I'm not in Buffalo anymore so I'm able to watch Sabre games on ESPN+ 

Living in Bruins country and using YouTube TV, Netflix, Prime, Disney, Apple TV and ESPN+, along with fiber internet, were actually saving a little from what Comcast used to cost us. The only Sabres games I don't get are the ones exclusively on NHL Network and when we play the Bruins, because YouTube TV doesn't have NHLN or NESN.

[freester]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Living in Bruins country and using YouTube TV, Netflix, Prime, Disney, Apple TV and ESPN+, along with fiber internet, were actually saving a little from what Comcast used to cost us. The only Sabres games I don't get are the ones exclusively on NHL Network and when we play the Bruins, because YouTube TV doesn't have NHLN or NESN.

I’m hoping YouTube tv gets the NHL NETWORK soon. It’s been my only negative since I got rid of directv. 

[Taro T]

12 hours ago, Doohickie said:

But not without the Sabres going bankrupt.  Can the league survive 12 teams going bankrupt at once?

Empire folding happened as a result of the Criminals declaring bankruptcy when their fraudulent accounting scheme blew up at the tech bubble's bursting and the subsequent asshattery of the bankruptcy trustee (he liquidated Empire because the future Adelphia MIGHT eventually end up losing money by paying more in rights fees after a going entity sale rather than what they'd get just selling off the equipment & studios by themselves.  Completely backwards from what he was supposed to do.  

And WNSA folded long before all that, with no effect on the Sabres.

You have the cause and effects of the events of the early Aughts completely off.

12 teams aren't going bankrupt because Bally's is going to try to renegotiate their broadcast contracts.

[Taro T]

One thing not mentioned in all this is the picture quality of streamed content is of noticeably lower quality than that from satellite (probably cable too, but haven't compared them directly).

[LTS]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

One thing not mentioned in all this is the picture quality of streamed content is of noticeably lower quality than that from satellite (probably cable too, but haven't compared them directly).

Interesting.  Very few sports are actually produced in a higher resolution.  Most are still broadcast at 720p or 1080i with 720p still tending to be the favored resolution overall.  This means that whether you are using FuboTV, Youtube.TV, DirecTV, or Spectrum.. their source material is in low resolution. Linear TV is TV that is not on-demand with predetermined broadcast schedules (aka: You use a guide to know when it will be on). It is not solely cable or satellite but includes streamers as well.

The upscaling capabilities of broadcasters, equipment, your TV play a huge role in how that broadcast looks on a 4k TV. Naturally the one variable that streaming TV adds to the mix is adaptive bitrate which will impact your viewing quality based on the ability of your connection to maintain a steady bitrate.  So, you'd see a worse broadcast if you can't hit the bitrate the streaming services require.

That said, if you do have a solid bitrate then the broadcasts should functionally look the same especially if the TV itself is providing the most upscaling.  Better TVs with higher end processors do a far better job of handling the upscaling.

The other factor on services with set top boxes is that they will often output the resolution of the broadcast and not upscale. Your TV might be set to not upscale that and then switch down to the lower resolution (assuming you have 4k TV). Some TVs will look better at that point as well (smaller screens).

The good news is that the ATSC 3.0 standard will push linear TV into the 4k world (among other things) and it should lead to more content produced in 4k and then all linear providers will benefits.

 

 

 

[Eleven]

12 minutes ago, LTS said:

Interesting.  Very few sports are actually produced in a higher resolution.  Most are still broadcast at 720p or 1080i with 720p still tending to be the favored resolution overall.  This means that whether you are using FuboTV, Youtube.TV, DirecTV, or Spectrum.. their source material is in low resolution. Linear TV is TV that is not on-demand with predetermined broadcast schedules (aka: You use a guide to know when it will be on). It is not solely cable or satellite but includes streamers as well.

The upscaling capabilities of broadcasters, equipment, your TV play a huge role in how that broadcast looks on a 4k TV. Naturally the one variable that streaming TV adds to the mix is adaptive bitrate which will impact your viewing quality based on the ability of your connection to maintain a steady bitrate.  So, you'd see a worse broadcast if you can't hit the bitrate the streaming services require.

That said, if you do have a solid bitrate then the broadcasts should functionally look the same especially if the TV itself is providing the most upscaling.  Better TVs with higher end processors do a far better job of handling the upscaling.

The other factor on services with set top boxes is that they will often output the resolution of the broadcast and not upscale. Your TV might be set to not upscale that and then switch down to the lower resolution (assuming you have 4k TV). Some TVs will look better at that point as well (smaller screens).

The good news is that the ATSC 3.0 standard will push linear TV into the 4k world (among other things) and it should lead to more content produced in 4k and then all linear providers will benefits.

 

 

 

This is informative.  When I watch anything on too high of a resolution TV, like at my sister's house (think MTV Cribs--their electronic situation is beyond comprehension), it seems like a stage play to me.  The actors, or hockey players, or whatever, stand out too much against the background.  And it all seems kind of fake.  I'm much more comfortable watching on a "normal" HDTV or my iPad or whatever.  

It very well could be that my perception is conditioned a certain way and that I can't see things the same way that young ones are seeing, but when I watch on a 4K or a 3D, it's just too sharp. I can tell that the set is a set.  Like on a stage.  If I'm watching normal HDTV, the set is what it should be.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Eleven

[Brawndo]

18 hours ago, Eleven said:

But in 2023, there should be no reason.  There really shouldn't.  This system is obsolete and stupid and there is a way to get RSNs paid without all the blackouts.

With James Dolan owning the Rangers, Knicks as well as MSG Network I imagine He has the pull to convince Bettman to eliminate blackout restrictions. 

[Eleven]

30 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

With James Dolan owning the Rangers, Knicks as well as MSG Network I imagine He has the pull to convince Bettman to eliminate blackout restrictions. 

But probably not the intelligence.

[Stoner]

21 hours ago, Eleven said:

This is informative.  When I watch anything on too high of a resolution TV, like at my sister's house (think MTV Cribs--their electronic situation is beyond comprehension), it seems like a stage play to me.  The actors, or hockey players, or whatever, stand out too much against the background.  And it all seems kind of fake.  I'm much more comfortable watching on a "normal" HDTV or my iPad or whatever.  

It very well could be that my perception is conditioned a certain way and that I can't see things the same way that young ones are seeing, but when I watch on a 4K or a 3D, it's just too sharp. I can tell that the set is a set.  Like on a stage.  If I'm watching normal HDTV, the set is what it should be.

I also preferred a fuzzier Keith Radford.

[steveoath]

Why can't we just buy a sabres virtual season ticket for all the games? Makes sense, no? NFL used to do it when I was still interested in football.

[Doohicksie]

On 2/18/2023 at 3:55 PM, Eleven said:

This is informative.  When I watch anything on too high of a resolution TV, like at my sister's house (think MTV Cribs--their electronic situation is beyond comprehension), it seems like a stage play to me.  The actors, or hockey players, or whatever, stand out too much against the background.  And it all seems kind of fake.  I'm much more comfortable watching on a "normal" HDTV or my iPad or whatever.  

It very well could be that my perception is conditioned a certain way and that I can't see things the same way that young ones are seeing, but when I watch on a 4K or a 3D, it's just too sharp. I can tell that the set is a set.  Like on a stage.  If I'm watching normal HDTV, the set is what it should be.

I remember jumping from a CRT picture tube to my first true HDTV and having that same sensation.

[OverPowerYou]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:56 PM, Eleven said:

The NHL was good at adapting once.  Back in the very late 90s-early 00s, I could use my AOL connection to listen to Sabres broadcasts on RealAudio free of charge.  The league understood that the ad revenue outstripped what it could get from charging me for emerging technology.

Right now, there is no reason other than greed for any of the big sports (other than NFL, see below) to be doing what it does with broadcast/streaming.  The concept of regional blackouts should have been dead a decade ago; for example, there should be no reason why an Angels fan living in Buffalo can watch Angels games UNLESS the Angels are playing the Mets, Yanks, Jays, Indians, or Pirates.  There should be no reason why a Sabres fan living in NJ can watch Sabres games UNLESS the Sabs are playing the Rags, Isles, Devils, or Flyers.

There really is no good reason why the NHL--or any league other than the NFL--can't go to a streaming subscription with no blackouts other than refusal to do so.  Yes, the league and its teams have contracts with RSNs.  All contracts can be renegotiated, and, in this case, if a league trailing everything in terms of popularity wants to move up, they should be renegotiated.

Current practice is stupid, it's greedy, it leads to piracy, and it ultimately leads to devolution of the brand.  Across all sports, with the possible exception of the NFL, which is starting to un-handcuff itself from lucrative but prohibitive contracts and which has no connections to RSNs.

It’s insanity. Living in Albany I would pay anything to watch the Sabres games. But no, the only way for me to do it is if I get cable. I can’t get the nhl center ice or espn+ because the local games are blacked out. Including the Sabres 

[dudacek]

19 hours ago, steveoath said:

Why can't we just buy a sabres virtual season ticket for all the games? Makes sense, no? NFL used to do it when I was still interested in football.

Not sure what you guys get overseas, but on Canada's West Coast I get every Sabre game through Sportsnet Now — no searching, always in the same place.

Used to only get blackouts for games against the Canucks, but even that is gone now since Sportsnet has the Canuck regional contract.

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Not sure what you guys get overseas, but on Canada's West Coast I get every Sabre game through Sportsnet Now — no searching, always in the same place.

Used to only get blackouts for games against the Canucks, but even that is gone now since Sportsnet has the Canuck regional contract.

We get something similar, NHL package from our cable provider, Eastlink. We often get both feeds so I don’t have to listen to PxP guys I don’t like.

[steveoath]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Not sure what you guys get overseas, but on Canada's West Coast I get every Sabre game through Sportsnet Now — no searching, always in the same place.

Used to only get blackouts for games against the Canucks, but even that is gone now since Sportsnet has the Canuck regional contract.

Fortunately since the collapse of Premier sport I get every nhl game with home commentary team. This is through viaplay who are apparently coming to Canada. 

[mjd1001]

6 hours ago, OverPowerYou said:

It’s insanity. Living in Albany I would pay anything to watch the Sabres games. But no, the only way for me to do it is if I get cable. I can’t get the nhl center ice or espn+ because the local games are blacked out. Including the Sabres 

Last year I remember working in the garage and listening to the Sabres broadcast on the smart speaker I have there. This year that went away, now the 'radio' broadcast is 'blackouted' on my smart speaker where in the past it never was.

I also brought this topic up in a previous thread a few months ago. Our daughter and her boyfriend, my nephew, and a niece I have are all under 26 years of age are/were Sabres fans. They do not have traditional cable, only streaming channels.  Being local, they haven't watched a Sabres game at home in a few years.  I talk to our daugher and her boyfriend all the time, but over the holidays I talked to that niece and nephew and the story is the same with all of them...they can't watch the games with streaming, they won't even think about getting a traditional cable package just for the Sabres, and they aren't as big of fans as they used to be because of it. 

My nephew still watches hockey and says he wants the Sabres to win (he is 21 now) but he says he picked a new team to follow, and now he is a pretty big Panthers Fan because he can watch every game they play through Hulu/espn.

Edited February 20, 2023 by mjd1001

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Last year I remember working in the garage and listening to the Sabres broadcast on the smart speaker I have there. This year that went away, now the 'radio' broadcast is 'blackouted' on my smart speaker where in the past it never was.

I also brought this topic up in a previous thread a few months ago. Our daughter and her boyfriend, my nephew, and a niece I have are all under 26 years of age are/were Sabres fans. They do not have traditional cable, only streaming channels.  Being local, they haven't watched a Sabres game at home in a few years.  I talk to our daugher and her boyfriend all the time, but over the holidays I talked to that niece and nephew and the story is the same with all of them...they can't watch the games with streaming, they won't even think about getting a traditional cable package just for the Sabres, and they aren't as big of fans as they used to be because of it. 

My nephew still watches hockey and says he wants the Sabres to win (he is 21 now) but he says he picked a new team to follow, and now he is a pretty big Panthers Fan because he can watch every game they play through Hulu/espn.

They definitely cut off their nose to spite their faces with the blackouts.  And eventually they'll go away.  But until they're gone won't expect them to go away anytime soon.

[Brawndo]

On 2/17/2023 at 2:06 PM, LGR4GM said:

Are they charging a yearly payment or are you saying they should?

 

 

Not sure if this will allow in market games to be shown