The New Bally RSN Thread.

[Eleven]

No politics.  But there's a fair amount of speculation to be done about how the salary cap would be affected if these regional sports networks fold.  

[Stoner]

Now with more shenanigans!™

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is a pretty good article about the situation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradadgate/2023/02/15/sinclairs-bally-sports-is-on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy-upending-local-sports-revenue-model/?sh=72e0035e25df

 

[Eleven]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is a pretty good article about the situation.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradadgate/2023/02/15/sinclairs-bally-sports-is-on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy-upending-local-sports-revenue-model/?sh=72e0035e25df

 

So that's potentially 12 NHL franchises with reduced contribution to "hockey related revenue," which is the determinant for the salary cap.

[Two or less]

8 minutes ago, Eleven said:

So that's potentially 12 NHL franchises with reduced contribution to "hockey related revenue," which is the determinant for the salary cap.

 

Greg Wyshynski was on WGR today and they talked about this. He said while it's a situation worth keeping track of and it could really negatively impact those teams, essp since some of them depend on that money to cover it's bottom line, but said as of now the NHL isn't really worried about it and they are not in panic mode yet. fwiw

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

So that's potentially 12 NHL franchises with reduced contribution to "hockey related revenue," which is the determinant for the salary cap.

Potentially being the key/operative word.

With no information on how the unpaid rights fees are distributed across the 3 leagues mentioned (plus wouldn't there possibly be unpaid rights fees to other leagues/sports carried by those RSNs included in that lump sum total) we don't know that the NHL teams will necessarily be taking a big hit this year.  Expect that the unpaid rights fees skew heavily either towards baseball (whose season is just about to get underway) if the rights fees tend to be paid in advance or towards the NBA & NHL if they're on a pay as you go basis w/ 1/2 the season over.

Next season would likely see the bigger potential hit, but the teams & league can begin right now looking for alternative RSNs.  Could be, in a ripoff from Demolition Man, in the future all RSNs are MSG.  (As long as they ain't friggin' NESN.)

The league and Sabres survived the implosion of Empire & WNSA (and Adelphia).

Edited February 17, 2023 by Taro T

[JohnC]

The business model for sports networks and cable TV is rapidly changing. The upcoming generation has to a great extent cut the cable chord. Those involved in signing regional cabel sports deals not so long ago expected the audience and money flow to consistently increase. What we thought was a new business/media model has quickly become antiquated. The new technology has altered the market. Now the market has to adapt to that change. 

[Eleven]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The upcoming generation has to a great extent cut the cable chord

I cut it in 2014 and I am not the "upcoming generation," nor was I then.  There are ways for the NHL to reasonably make money in streaming, but right now, its model is split into "a million little pieces" which few consumers--even rabid hockey fans--are going to go for.  The NHL *could* see this as an opportunity to gather the RSNs into a reasonable package with no blackouts, but I doubt it does.  And I think it will lose hockey related revenue, and we will see a lower cap, as  a result.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

I cut it in 2014 and I am not the "upcoming generation," nor was I then.  There are ways for the NHL to reasonably make money in streaming, but right now, its model is split into "a million little pieces" which few consumers--even rabid hockey fans--are going to go for.  The NHL *could* see this as an opportunity to gather the RSNs into a reasonable package with no blackouts, but I doubt it does.  And I think it will lose hockey related revenue, and we will see a lower cap, as  a result.

As you seem to be alluding to the delivery of the product is rapidly changing. From a business and a financial standpoint it's a more competitive and complicated business world. As soon as things seem to sort itself out and stabilize then a new technology is introduced that alters the market again. The only constant is constant change. You either adapt or wither away. 

[Eleven]

32 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As you seem to be alluding to the delivery of the product is rapidly changing. From a business and a financial standpoint it's a more competitive and complicated business world. As soon as things seem to sort itself out and stabilize then a new technology is introduced that alters the market again. The only constant is constant change. You either adapt or wither away. 

The NHL was good at adapting once.  Back in the very late 90s-early 00s, I could use my AOL connection to listen to Sabres broadcasts on RealAudio free of charge.  The league understood that the ad revenue outstripped what it could get from charging me for emerging technology.

Right now, there is no reason other than greed for any of the big sports (other than NFL, see below) to be doing what it does with broadcast/streaming.  The concept of regional blackouts should have been dead a decade ago; for example, there should be no reason why an Angels fan living in Buffalo can watch Angels games UNLESS the Angels are playing the Mets, Yanks, Jays, Indians, or Pirates.  There should be no reason why a Sabres fan living in NJ can watch Sabres games UNLESS the Sabs are playing the Rags, Isles, Devils, or Flyers.

There really is no good reason why the NHL--or any league other than the NFL--can't go to a streaming subscription with no blackouts other than refusal to do so.  Yes, the league and its teams have contracts with RSNs.  All contracts can be renegotiated, and, in this case, if a league trailing everything in terms of popularity wants to move up, they should be renegotiated.

Current practice is stupid, it's greedy, it leads to piracy, and it ultimately leads to devolution of the brand.  Across all sports, with the possible exception of the NFL, which is starting to un-handcuff itself from lucrative but prohibitive contracts and which has no connections to RSNs.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Eleven

[#freejame]

Manfred says this will expedite the process of rooming blackouts from baseball. Could be good for hockey as well. Bally sucks and is bad for sports anyway. 

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, Eleven said:

The NHL was good at adapting once.  Back in the very late 90s-early 00s, I could use my AOL connection to listen to Sabres broadcasts on RealAudio free of charge.  The league understood that the ad revenue outstripped what it could get from charging me for emerging technology.

Right now, there is no reason other than greed for any of the big sports (other than NFL, see below) to be doing what it does with broadcast/streaming.  The concept of regional blackouts should have been dead a decade ago; for example, there should be no reason why an Angels fan living in Buffalo can watch Angels games UNLESS the Angels are playing the Mets, Yanks, Jays, Indians, or Pirates.  There should be no reason why a Sabres fan living in NJ can watch Sabres games UNLESS the Sabs are playing the Rags, Isles, Devils, or Flyers.

There really is no good reason why the NHL--or any league other than the NFL--can't go to a streaming subscription with no blackouts other than refusal to do so.  Yes, the league and its teams have contracts with RSNs.  All contracts can be renegotiated, and, in this case, if a league trailing everything in terms of popularity wants to move up, they should be renegotiated.

Current practice is stupid, it's greedy, it leads to piracy, and it ultimately leads to devolution of the brand.  Across all sports, with the possible exception of the NFL, which is starting to un-handcuff itself from lucrative but prohibitive contracts and which has no connections to RSNs.

Yup. I would pay 200 bucks a year to be guaranteed all Sabres games and the playoffs.

[Brawndo]

MSG announced that MSG Plus will debut in the Fall of 2023. 
Charge a yearly payment of 250 dollars and lift the local blackouts 

The Sabres get approximately 20 Million per year from MSG, this would probably increase that given the number of people in the WNY Area who are cord cutters 

[LGR4GM]

Are they charging a yearly payment or are you saying they should?

 

[LGR4GM]

https://theathletic.com/4219468/2023/02/17/bally-sports-rsn-nba-nhl-mlb-broadcasts/

Quote

Bally Sports, NHL teams: Anaheim Ducks, Arizona Coyotes, Carolina Hurricanes, Columbus Blue Jackets, Dallas Stars, Detroit Red Wings, Florida Panthers, Los Angeles Kings, Minnesota Wild, Nashville Predators, St. Louis Blues and Tampa Bay Lightning.

Quote

For the NHL, which like the NBA has 82-game regular seasons for teams, it’s less clear how much RSN money accounts for the annual revenue mix. But whatever the number, it’s vital for NHL teams.

 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

MSG announced that MSG Plus will debut in the Fall of 2023. 
Charge a yearly payment of 250 dollars and lift the local blackouts 

The Sabres get approximately 20 Million per year from MSG, this would probably increase that given the number of people in the WNY Area who are cord cutters 

 

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Are they charging a yearly payment or are you saying they should?

 

We need the answer to this question!

[Marvin]

Now if only the sports gambling sites could have this problem.  I am sick of all the betting talk during games.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Are they charging a yearly payment or are you saying they should?

 

 

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

 

We need the answer to this question!

They haven’t announced how much it’s going to be and whether to be charged per month or yearly. The thought process is that MSG gets approximately five dollars a month from cable, Direct TV and Fios subscribers so around $60 a year. Many people especially in the western New York region would probably only sign up from October through May if it was a monthly service and drop it during the off-season. If MSG  was to institute that hockey games without local blackout restrictions would be offered it would make sense for them to have only a yearly option to maximize revenue. This would probably make it more palatable for MSG to support lifting of local blackouts. Charging more for a streaming option would also make sense from a financial standpoint for the company as they are providing a desired Service but still allow consumers that do not want to sign up for traditional cable outlets to continue to do so. 

[Brawndo]

11 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Now if only the sports gambling sites could have this problem.  I am sick of all the betting talk during games.

Unfortunately this is here to stay as online sports gambling will be a major revenue producer for NHL and its clubs for years to come. 

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

They haven’t announced how much it’s going to be and whether to be charged per month or yearly. The thought process is that MSG gets approximately five dollars a month from cable, Direct TV and Fios subscribers so around $60 a year. Many people especially in the western New York region would probably only sign up from October through May if it was a monthly service and drop it during the off-season. If MSG  was to institute that hockey games without local blackout restrictions would be offered it would make sense for them to have only a yearly option to maximize revenue. This would probably make it more palatable for MSG to support lifting of local blackouts. Charging more for a streaming option would also make sense from a financial standpoint for the company as they are providing a desired Service but still allow consumers that do not want to sign up for traditional cable outlets to continue to do so. 

Have they announced that they're going to do it at all (regardless of price)?

[Brawndo]

6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Have they announced that they're going to do it at all (regardless of price)?

Here is what has been announced

https://barrettsportsmedia.com/2022/11/15/msg-network-eyes-nba-nhl-second-half-for-streaming-service-launch/

https://nypost.com/2022/11/11/msg-network-plans-to-launch-paid-app-to-show-knicks-and-rangers-games-without-cable/

 

With a follow up article stating that that they were delaying the release until the Fall as they would not have any summer programming. 
 

The Sabres are not mentioned, but I have a feeling that’s more to do with the articles appealing to the NYC Area. 

 

 

[Eleven]

27 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here is what has been announced

https://barrettsportsmedia.com/2022/11/15/msg-network-eyes-nba-nhl-second-half-for-streaming-service-launch/

https://nypost.com/2022/11/11/msg-network-plans-to-launch-paid-app-to-show-knicks-and-rangers-games-without-cable/

 

With a follow up article stating that that they were delaying the release until the Fall as they would not have any summer programming. 
 

The Sabres are not mentioned, but I have a feeling that’s more to do with the articles appealing to the NYC Area. 

 

 

Wow, that leaves me hopeful!  Thanks.

[Doohicksie]

On 2/16/2023 at 5:40 PM, Taro T said:

The league and Sabres survived the implosion of Empire & WNSA (and Adelphia).

But not without the Sabres going bankrupt.  Can the league survive 12 teams going bankrupt at once?

[Doohicksie]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:19 PM, Eleven said:

its model is split into "a million little pieces" which few consumers--even rabid hockey fans--are going to go for. 

I can see every game.  I have ESPN+ so I get most of the NHL games there.  I have Spectrum cable with TNT, ESPN and local RSNs, plus the sports pack add-on which gives me the NHL Network, which gives me everything else.

The "blackouts" on ESPN+ is to force people watch on their local RSNs so that they don't lose revenue to ESPN+ (which makes perfect sense to me).

*******************

Bally is the RSN for the Dallas market so if they stop producing game coverage and no one else picks them up, I'm SOL on the local RSN coverage I guess.  But if NHL games are not being shown on the Dallas RSN, there's no reason for ESPN+ to black them out here so I would expect to see the MSG coverage.

I think in the case of a true meltdown, the broadcast rights would revert to the leagues/teams and they would either start in-house broadcasts, probably hiring the laid off Bally workers, or more likely a larger entity or entities (NBCSN, ESPN, Paramount, etc.) would do that en masse and replace Bally.

I think if Bally defaults on their agreements it will likely happen after the regular NHL season.  The NHL and NBA would probably be okay but MLB would have to deal with the default during season play.  I expect that contingency/replacement plans could be rolled out by the start of the next NHL and NBA seasons.

[Doohicksie]

On 2/16/2023 at 6:56 PM, Eleven said:

The concept of regional blackouts should have been dead a decade ago; for example, there should be no reason why an Angels fan living in Buffalo can watch Angels games UNLESS the Angels are playing the Mets, Yanks, Jays, Indians, or Pirates.  There should be no reason why a Sabres fan living in NJ can watch Sabres games UNLESS the Sabs are playing the Rags, Isles, Devils, or Flyers.

The regional blackouts give revenue to the local cable networks/broadcast stations.  Perhaps that will be a thing of the past at some point, but it isn't that there is "no reason" why they exist.  There are lots of reasons:  Existing contracts with local providers that grant them the franchise for their markets.  As long as local providers are significant players in major league sports markets, there is a valid reason for the blackouts.  You may not like or agree with the reason, but it's a valid reason.  You *could* very well see every NHL game.  But you've cut yourself off from your local content provider.  Too bad, so sad for you.

Edited February 18, 2023 by Doohickie