Buffalo Bills 2023 Thread

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Don't forget Doug "6-10" Jauron!  And Sexy Rexy Toe-nibbling Ryan!

Dick(less) Jauron.  Quotable quote "it's hard to win in the NFL."  No Schlitz Sherlock.

[nfreeman]

And Mularkey!  And Gailey!

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

And Mularkey!  And Gailey!

Had Gailey hired a DC that actually had a clue of what he was doing wouldn't have been horrible.  But the game sure seemed to have passed Wannstadt by by the time he got to Buffalo.

Gailey knew O extremely well.  

He wasn't a good HC, but there were several (mentioned here already) that were significantly worse during the drought.

[inkman]

13 hours ago, shrader said:

I miss Doug Marrone. Oh wait, I mean I miss Gregg Williams. 

Is it McBean that has gotten us here or is it Josh?  They drafted him.  Good on them.  They stuck with him and got him a #1 WR.  If Kinkaid blows up and is Travis Kelce.  I’ll be back on board with McDermott and Beane.  Right now the grade is incomplete. 

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, inkman said:

I’m glad you and the majority of the fanbase are smitten with McBean. They are good. Just not sure they are great. 

I am not sure they are great either but I think they can be.  

They are definitely very good and they are knocking on the door to win one.  Look  at how long the great coach in KC was considered “not good enough”.   Sean Payton, the great offensive mind, won ONE Super Bowl with HoF Drew Brees at QB.   That’s one in 13 years.   

McDermott has definitely come up short in playoffs, no doubt about it.  Beane has missed on some draft picks, no doubt about it. But overall the product on the field is in the top tier in the entire league and I see no reason to replace either of them. 

Look at the Bills history of hiring coaches that made the playoffs - Lou Saban twice, Joe Collier (made playoffs one year with Saban’s team, then totally fell apart), Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, Wade Phillips, and Sean McDermott.    Six in 63 years.  Two of the six were on staff replacements.   Only one time ever did they follow one winning coach with another, that was Phillips coaching Marv’s left overs.   

Now look at Pegula’s track record of hiring good coaches and GMs in both football and hockey.   Do you like those odds?  

I prefer to support McBeane and let them try to achieve greatness rather than rolling the dice again.  I think they can do it.  

You may be able to find a better game day HC than McD, but lose Beane with along him and this team along with its renewed winning culture is at risk. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Pimlach

[nfreeman]

4 hours ago, inkman said:

Is it McBean that has gotten us here or is it Josh?  They drafted him.  Good on them.  They stuck with him and got him a #1 WR.  If Kinkaid blows up and is Travis Kelce.  I’ll be back on board with McDermott and Beane.  Right now the grade is incomplete. 

I get where you're coming from, but I think they've accomplished quite a bit -- more than enough to deserve a real grade, and a good grade.

They have been more hit-and-miss than I'd like on the O-line and at the offensive skill positions, but they've brought in a ton of good players and are a perennial title contender.  They've gone from being a bottom-3 franchise that sold off home games for a few extra bucks to being an elite franchise -- one that gets raided for coaches and GMs and one that is viewed as a destination by elite players from around the league.

Having said that, I sure hope they were right about Kincaid and the O-line upgrades they made this summer.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I get where you're coming from, but I think they've accomplished quite a bit -- more than enough to deserve a real grade, and a good grade.

They have been more hit-and-miss than I'd like on the O-line and at the offensive skill positions, but they've brought in a ton of good players and are a perennial title contender.  They've gone from being a bottom-3 franchise that sold off home games for a few extra bucks to being an elite franchise -- one that gets raided for coaches and GMs and one that is viewed as a destination by elite players from around the league.

Having said that, I sure hope they were right about Kincaid and the O-line upgrades they made this summer.

I think Kincaid is special. I was advocating for his selection over a mediocre WR class over on the football side of this board for over a month before the draft. I just don't know if you can count on him in his rookie year to be that dangerous second receiving weapon we need. I think he will make some immediate impact in opening up the entire field as something the D has to pay attention to. I think Josh will have confidence he'll catch the ball. Hopkins would help on that front. He's a much more reliable receiver to compliment Diggs. Davis should be WR3 or 4.

They've done enough to bolster the IOL that I am fairly optimistic it won't be the massive open border it was for much of last year. Just getting rid of Saffold is addition by subtraction. Wish I felt better about the tackles. Dawkins was below average last year and Brown was a disaster. There were mitigating factors. I think Dawkins was affected by poor guard play next to him and Brown never got past the lost development incurred because of back problems. Beane did bring in modest competition and Edwards can play some tackle. It's possible Doyle may surprise.

I hope Josh is fully recovered from the UCL injury and I also hope his inability to be accurate on short passes exacerbated by injury is the reason Dorsey did not make use of Cooks' pass catching abilities out of the backfield. You don't select Cook and add Hines if you don't plan on making that element of the game part of your habitual arsenal.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Dr. Who

[Pimlach]

36 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I get where you're coming from, but I think they've accomplished quite a bit -- more than enough to deserve a real grade, and a good grade.

They have been more hit-and-miss than I'd like on the O-line and at the offensive skill positions, but they've brought in a ton of good players and are a perennial title contender.  They've gone from being a bottom-3 franchise that sold off home games for a few extra bucks to being an elite franchise -- one that gets raided for coaches and GMs and one that is viewed as a destination by elite players from around the league.

Having said that, I sure hope they were right about Kincaid and the O-line upgrades they made this summer.

The bold is so true and to me it is a breath of fresh air in Buffalo Sports.  Getting rid of them would not be a smart move, and is more likely to start another decline. 

Pittsburgh has had 3 coaches in 50+ years.   Patience is a virtue.  I understand that Buffalo is starving for a Championship.  Winning a lot of games and being  a destination for elite players for the first time ever is fun and I don't want it to end because of impatient and unrealistic thinking.  

I think that it is asking a lot to expect Kincaid to be like Travis Kelce in his first year, if ever.   Kelce was targeted 87 times for 67 catches his first year.  I doubt we have enough footballs to target a rookie that much.   Knox had 65 targets last year at TE.  Our slot receivers combined for about 100 targets combined (McKenzie+ Crowder+ Shakir+ Beasley).  

The Oline upgrades have to be better.   Conner McGovern is in his prime and is better than the aging Roy Saffold.  If #2 pick O'Cyrus is the player he was in college we have have a legit line.  If he is not ready we added John Edwards who is promising, and we still have Ryan Bates who projects more to the center position when Morse is gone.  

 

[JujuFish]

McDermott and Beane came in, cleared out some of our most physically gifted players (Watkins, Dareus, Gilmore), but replaced them with a complete culture change, an immediate winning season, and playoffs. And that's before Allen even arrived on the scene.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I think Kincaid is special. I was advocating for his selection over a mediocre WR class over on the football side of this board for over a month before the draft. I just don't know if you can count on him in his rookie year to be that dangerous second receiving weapon we need. I think he will make some immediate impact in opening up the entire field as something the D has to pay attention to. I think Josh will have confidence he'll catch the ball. Hopkins would help on that front. He's a much more reliable receiver to compliment Diggs. Davis should be WR3 or 4.

They've done enough to bolster the IOL that I am fairly optimistic it won't be the massive open border it was for much of last year. Just getting rid of Saffold is addition by subtraction. Wish I felt better about the tackles. Dawkins was below average last year and Brown was a disaster. There were mitigating factors. I think Dawkins was affected by poor guard play next to him and Brown never got past the lost development incurred because of back problems. Beane did bring in modest competition and Edwards can play some tackle. It's possible Doyle may surprise.

I hope Josh is fully recovered from the UCL injury and I also hope his inability to be accurate on short passes exacerbated by injury is the reason Dorsey did not make use of Cooks' pass catching abilities out of the backfield. You don't select Cook and add Hines if you don't plan on making that element of the game part of your habitual arsenal.

Excellent post.  I think Dawkins was more affected by double bacon cheeseburgers and jumbo fries for every meal though.

[Night Train]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Excellent post.  I think Dawkins was more affected by double bacon cheeseburgers and jumbo fries for every meal though.

His Covid struggle really messed him up. His donut diet hasn't helped. A shame since he's one of the true community guys locally. Has done a ton for poor kids.  

[Brawndo]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:38 PM, inkman said:

I’m glad you and the majority of the fanbase are smitten with McBean. They are good. Just not sure they are great. 

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I am not sure they are great either but I think they can be.  

They are definitely very good and they are knocking on the door to win one.  Look  at how long the great coach in KC was considered “not good enough”.   Sean Payton, the great offensive mind, won ONE Super Bowl with HoF Drew Brees at QB.   That’s one in 13 years.   

McDermott has definitely come up short in playoffs, no doubt about it.  Beane has missed on some draft picks, no doubt about it. But overall the product on the field is in the top tier in the entire league and I see no reason to replace either of them. 

Look at the Bills history of hiring coaches that made the playoffs - Lou Saban twice, Joe Collier (made playoffs one year with Saban’s team, then totally fell apart), Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, Wade Phillips, and Sean McDermott.    Six in 63 years.  Two of the six were on staff replacements.   Only one time ever did they follow one winning coach with another, that was Phillips coaching Marv’s left overs.   

Now look at Pegula’s track record of hiring good coaches and GMs in both football and hockey.   Do you like those odds?  

I prefer to support McBeane and let them try to achieve greatness rather than rolling the dice again.  I think they can do it.  

You may be able to find a better game day HC than McD, but lose Beane with along him and this team along with its renewed winning culture is at risk. 

 

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I get where you're coming from, but I think they've accomplished quite a bit -- more than enough to deserve a real grade, and a good grade.

They have been more hit-and-miss than I'd like on the O-line and at the offensive skill positions, but they've brought in a ton of good players and are a perennial title contender.  They've gone from being a bottom-3 franchise that sold off home games for a few extra bucks to being an elite franchise -- one that gets raided for coaches and GMs and one that is viewed as a destination by elite players from around the league.

Having said that, I sure hope they were right about Kincaid and the O-line upgrades they made this summer.

Mc Dermott and Beane are the best HC/GM Combo the team has since Levy and Polian, and they do deserve kudos for persevering through a hellacious season last year, but there still are reasons for concern. 
 

McDermott has been out coached in a few big games, especially 13 seconds. It’s also a little concerning that some players were cryptically tweeting about preaching accountability but not taking any responsibility yourself in the weeks after. Also I’m not sure how much credibility if any to put in the rumors about a rift between Daboll and McDermott/ Frazier and McDermott/ Chad Hall and McDermott, but there has been enough reports from different sources to begin to wonder if there maybe some fire to go along with all the smoke. 
 

They hit a grand slam with the Allen Pick, but have struggled in many ways. They still have not figured out the OL, have invested high amounts of draft capital and free agent money in the DL with a mixed bag of results. 
 

Cook and Bernard are TBD, but they really have not hit on any second or third round pick that is still contributing to the team. It took them four drafts after Allen’s to draft an offensive skill player higher than the third round in Cook. Davis is the highest WR they have drafted and he was a 4th rounder. 
 (Quick side note drafting Kincaid was positive) 

For comparison all seven players drafted by the Chiefs last year played at some point in time this season for them during their SuperBowl Run as was reported during the AFC Championship Game Broadcast. 

The Bills are considered one of the elite franchises in the league and a perennial Super Bowl Contender, but they have not been past the divisional round in the past two offseasons. Their main competition the Chiefs have five consecutive AFC Championship Game appearances, made three Superbowls and won two of them. The Bengals are the other competition and they have made the last two AFC Championship Games with one SB Appearance. Even in the East there is a chance even if the Dolphins and Jets have done enough not close the gap between them and the Bills, they probably have narrowed it. 
 

As Punch said, there is something to be said about stability at the HC Position as he mentioned the Steelers have only had three head coaches. 
Mike Tomlin is one of my favorite coaches in the league, never had a losing record, he has three AFC Championship Game Appearances, Two SuperBowl Appearances and One Lombardi Trophy. The danger comes in complacency, the Steelers have not made a AFC championship game since 2016. Compare this to the Steelers Pennsylvania Brethren. Since 1999 when the Bills Drought began, the eagles, have had four different head coaches three of those four have taken the Eagles to the Super Bowl with Doug Pederson winning it. After winning the Super Bowl, he was fired after missing the playoffs once.  There is something to be said about continuing to strive for championships, and not being afraid to make changes in the coaching position if you feel it’s not up to par. 

I do believe there is no way that McDermott or Beane are fired anytime soon, but if the team doesn’t take a step and advance to the Super Bowl, or at least AFC championship game a head coaching change may be necessary sooner rather than later, but even then  you have to make sure the right replacement is ready to go. Also, I’m pretty sure that if this does not occur Diggs will ask out of Buffalo. 

I think the biggest advantage Mahomes and Burrow have over Allen is the fact that both of their head coaches are from the offensive of side of the ball and will remain with them for the foreseeable future. Josh Allen, on the other hand has a strong possibility of going through multiple offensive coordinator’s in his career.

(Tom Brady is a freaking unicorn before anybody brings him up) 

I am cautiously optimistic about the upcoming season, and I hope the Bills complete the second step of the Pegula championship trifecta. 

 

[Randall Flagg]

I've noticed that most of the people dismissing the Allen pick and development as "yeah they got one pick right and it's the only thing carrying them" are the same people who condescendingly sneered that McBeane would need to outsmart the entirety of math itself for the Allen pick to work out. I have subzero interest in hearing takes from these people about the state of my football team

[inkman]

5 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I've noticed that most of the people dismissing the Allen pick and development as "yeah they got one pick right and it's the only thing carrying them" are the same people who condescendingly sneered that McBeane would need to outsmart the entirety of math itself for the Allen pick to work out. I have subzero interest in hearing takes from these people about the state of my football team

I don’t really know if that’s true.  I never said that stupid math thing and I’m leery of this administration’s football aptitude. 

[Randall Flagg]

13 hours ago, inkman said:

I don’t really know if that’s true.  I never said that stupid math thing and I’m leery of this administration’s football aptitude. 

I haven't read this thread too closely, I'm talking more about the TV/radio people that decided a random 3 week stretch in June is time to pretend en masse that Sean is a breath away from being fired 

[inkman]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I haven't read this thread too closely, I'm talking more about the TV/radio people that decided a random 3 week stretch in June is time to pretend en masse that Sean is a breath away from being fired 

Oh yeah. I’ve heard pundits who don’t even talk football regularly stating McDermott is on the hot seat.  

[Night Train]

6 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I haven't read this thread too closely, I'm talking more about the TV/radio people that decided a random 3 week stretch in June is time to pretend en masse that Sean is a breath away from being fired 

 I can't believe anyone gives credence to any of the national media on ESPN/FOX/NFLN etc.  Those networks are for watching live sports and highlights. Nothing else. Those people are clueless. 

[That Aud Smell]

7 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm talking more about the TV/radio people that decided a random 3 week stretch in June is time to pretend en masse that Sean is a breath away from being fired 

4 hours ago, inkman said:

Oh yeah. I’ve heard pundits who don’t even talk football regularly stating McDermott is on the hot seat.  

57 minutes ago, Night Train said:

 I can't believe anyone gives credence to any of the national media on ESPN/FOX/NFLN etc.  Those networks are for watching live sports and highlights. Nothing else. Those people are clueless. 

They're in the business of creating content and generating traffic (clicks, views, engagement). That's all. 

[Randall Flagg]

15 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

They're in the business of creating content and generating traffic (clicks, views, engagement). That's all. 

I try not to give it to them. But man is it annoying when three of the top ten threads on TBD are about cowherd saying the same thing as last week

[inkman]

47 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

They're in the business of creating content and generating traffic (clicks, views, engagement). That's all. 

Dominique Foxwurth stated he didn’t think the Bill ms and Diggs could come back from this WITHOUT KNOWING A SINGLE FACT OF WHAT HAPPENED.  Sorry end rant. 

[sabremike]

Read the whole thing.

[That Aud Smell]

16 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I try not to give it to them. But man is it annoying when three of the top ten threads on TBD are about cowherd saying the same thing as last week

See, there's the root of the problem.

16 hours ago, inkman said:

Dominique Foxwurth stated he didn’t think the Bill ms and Diggs could come back from this WITHOUT KNOWING A SINGLE FACT OF WHAT HAPPENED.  Sorry end rant. 

That's not a real name.

Edited June 21, 2023 by That Aud Smell

[inkman]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

That's not a real name.

I’m not sure what’s real anymore 

[Brawndo]

 

[inkman]

So much for the hot seat 🤷‍♂️