Buffalo Bills 2023 Thread

[LTS]

11 minutes ago, ... said:

Gamble? What about sacrificing an innocent person? Money being the prime motivator to hang the innocent is depraved at best.

Let me know when you find utopia.

Let's say the Buffalo Bills take your course of action. Then what?  Is it reasonable to expect that they will face significant business hurdles?  Lost sponsorships and endorsements? Let's assume they take a $5M revenue hit for the season.  The owner is probably not eating that. How many jobs are then cut because the Bills need to cut payroll?

Do those people care about the punter being guilty or not or are they busy trying to find a job, in a bad economy, to pay the bills and feed their families?  And for what? the "Punt God" has been proven innocent and can go pursue his career signing an entry level NFL deal that probably pays more salary than the people who lost their jobs.

You can isolate an incident and make it sound like the decision is easy. Unfortunately for every action there are usually many, many, many, reactions.

As I said, the people to blame for this are the people themselves. Society makes the reality that we all have to live in. Whether we like it or not.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Let me know when you find utopia.

Let's say the Buffalo Bills take your course of action. Then what?  Is it reasonable to expect that they will face significant business hurdles?  Lost sponsorships and endorsements? Let's assume they take a $5M revenue hit for the season.  The owner is probably not eating that. How many jobs are then cut because the Bills need to cut payroll?

Do those people care about the punter being guilty or not or are they busy trying to find a job, in a bad economy, to pay the bills and feed their families?  And for what? the "Punt God" has been proven innocent and can go pursue his career signing an entry level NFL deal that probably pays more salary than the people who lost their jobs.

You can isolate an incident and make it sound like the decision is easy. Unfortunately for every action there are usually many, many, many, reactions.

As I said, the people to blame for this are the people themselves. Society makes the reality that we all have to live in. Whether we like it or not.

And it might go a long way towards preventing the next lynch mob from forming if not only the lawyer that brought this so impactfully into the public eye faced consequences but those leading the lynch mob as well also faced consequences for their role in the matter.  Can think of at least one, and probably several, media personalities that were all in before having even gotten to the end of the lawyer's press release and leading the frenzy.  Were that (those) person(s) to lose their job(s) perhaps the next time accusations such as this arise again (and they'll arise again) they could be actually discussed in a rational way before the target of the indignation receives the tar and feathering prior to anybody outside those that were there in the moment actually having a clue as to what actually happened.  Sometimes the tar and feathering is deserved; but often and seemingly in this case it wasn't and isn't.

Pretty sure it's way too much to ask for though.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Taro T

[Weave]

1 hour ago, ... said:

Gamble? What about sacrificing an innocent person? Money being the prime motivator to hang the innocent is depraved at best.

The Bills are a corporation.  Right, wrong, or indifferent the leaders of any corporation have a primary responsibility that is fiduciary.  Varying from fiduciary decisions without owner/shareholder consent is dereliction of their primary responsibility.  And I can’t see the owners of this corporation accepting the huge financial and PR burden necessary to do what you ask.

Corporations are antisocial by their very nature.  Asking them to be otherwise is asking a cat to be a mouse.

[...]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

 

As I said, the people to blame for this are the people themselves. Society makes the reality that we all have to live in. Whether we like it or not.

That is exactly correct and each person who drops their principles (or exposes their lack of) to defend and excuse the "corporation" continues to legitimize the wrong response. Who has the power here? The people and their wallets do. If each individual simply voiced their objection rather than excuse it this paradigm would change quickly. 

The media represents the media, not the people, and controversy is their honey. People have acquiesced to the media for far too long and this is what we have. All it takes is people pulling up their big boy pants and not accepting the narratives. 

[Eleven]

6 hours ago, shrader said:

And I'd just like to add to this that a QB brings in money.  A WR brings in money.  A punter does not bring in money.

Before the 2021 (or maybe 2022?) season, you would have been right.  But now?  DraftKings!  Caesar's Funzone!  FANZone!  MGM Shraderplace!  FanDuel!  Cockfight!  Beerchug!  Mallo Cup!   You get it. Bets on punters, punters betting, whatever.  Kid could have made bucks.  The team could have made bucks.  The kid could have punted well.  Whatever.  We won't know.

[That Aud Smell]

14 hours ago, Eleven said:

Mallo Cup!

Road trip to Altoona. LFG.

[shrader]

16 hours ago, Eleven said:

Before the 2021 (or maybe 2022?) season, you would have been right.  But now?  DraftKings!  Caesar's Funzone!  FANZone!  MGM Shraderplace!  FanDuel!  Cockfight!  Beerchug!  Mallo Cup!   You get it. Bets on punters, punters betting, whatever.  Kid could have made bucks.  The team could have made bucks.  The kid could have punted well.  Whatever.  We won't know.

Did you hack me or something?  MGM Shraderplace is still a work in progress and I wasn't ready to announce it yet.

[Eleven]

Just now, shrader said:

Did you hack me or something?  MGM Shraderplace is still a work in progress and I wasn't ready to announce it yet.

Yep

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Road trip to Altoona. LFG.

I'll be headed there for a weekend next summer so why not?

[That Aud Smell]

26 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Yep

I'll be headed there for a weekend next summer so why not?

Got your trip to Altoona lined up ~14 months in advance. Nice.

(More seriously: I wholeheartedly recommend dinner and beers at the Knickerbocker Tavern. They do pub grub, but in a "leveled up" sort of way. And if the weather allows, I recommend sitting in the courtyard.)

[Eleven]

31 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Got your trip to Altoona lined up ~14 months in advance. Nice.

Friend's ordination so yeah I know it'll be next summer.

I WILL be contacting Boyer to see if I can get a tour.

[That Aud Smell]

13 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Friend's ordination so yeah I know it'll be next summer.

Nice. I was on campus to catch a soccer game at Saint Francis in nearby Loretto last fall and the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese was holding a meeting of (and a mass for) high school aged kids (confirmandi?) in the basketball arena. It was an impressive showing. I like the vibe in that part of the 814.

17 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I WILL be contacting Boyer to see if I can get a tour.

I have visited the gift store a couple times. I have not yet been able to coordinate a tour.

[Eleven]

54 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I have visited the gift store a couple times. I have not yet been able to coordinate a tour.

You don't have my powers.

[LTS]

19 hours ago, ... said:

That is exactly correct and each person who drops their principles (or exposes their lack of) to defend and excuse the "corporation" continues to legitimize the wrong response. Who has the power here? The people and their wallets do. If each individual simply voiced their objection rather than excuse it this paradigm would change quickly. 

The media represents the media, not the people, and controversy is their honey. People have acquiesced to the media for far too long and this is what we have. All it takes is people pulling up their big boy pants and not accepting the narratives. 

Have you seen Idiocracy?  The world is not trending in the way you'd like. 

You can see it on here every time there is a controversial topic and anyone suggests "wait and see".  That's just one small community. You can want what you want, but in the moment, each business has to do what they have to do to stay alive.

I'd much prefer people dial it down and take a more measured and rational approach to things. But I am also seasoned enough to know that it's not going to happen and I can choose to make the most of my limited lifetime on this planet and be as happy as possible or I can put myself into misery and battle everyone who refuses to get off the jump to conclusions mat.

[That Aud Smell]

56 minutes ago, Eleven said:

You don't have my powers.

I'd thought that my not going on a tour was more a function of my limited availability, but, yeah -- I'm sure they'll part a sea of marshmallow fluff in order to get your tour scheduled.

[That Aud Smell]

6 minutes ago, LTS said:

I'd much prefer people dial it down and take a more measured and rational approach to things. But I am also seasoned enough to know that it's not going to happen and I can choose to make the most of my limited lifetime on this planet and be as happy as possible or I can put myself into misery and battle everyone who refuses to get off the jump to conclusions mat.

The world as it should be based on principles.

The world as it is based on facts. 

A priori. A posteriori.

An age-old debate. 

Whither PAngloss?

[Eleven]

21 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'd thought that my not going on a tour was more a function of my limited availability, but, yeah -- I'm sure they'll part a sea of marshmallow fluff in order to get your tour scheduled.

They're not going to part a sea of anything.  I'm gonna swim in it.  I may drown.  But Mallo Cup filling in the lungs has to be a decent way to go, right?

26 minutes ago, LTS said:

You can see it on here every time there is a controversial topic and anyone suggests "wait and see".  That's just one small community. You can want what you want, but in the moment, each business has to do what they have to do to stay alive.

Yep

Edited May 10, 2023 by Eleven

[Pimlach]

21 hours ago, Weave said:

The Bills are a corporation.  Right, wrong, or indifferent the leaders of any corporation have a primary responsibility that is fiduciary.  Varying from fiduciary decisions without owner/shareholder consent is dereliction of their primary responsibility.  And I can’t see the owners of this corporation accepting the huge financial and PR burden necessary to do what you ask.

Corporations are antisocial by their very nature.  Asking them to be otherwise is asking a cat to be a mouse.

You are kind of failing MBA 101 here @Weave.  

The Bills are not a corporation, they do not sell shares to the public.  The Bills are a privately owned limited liability company, LLC, meaning the ownership is protected from certain liabilities related to the business. 

A fiduciary, generally speaking, is a person that is responsible to manage and make money for another person, some financial planners/investment managers are fiduciaries.  Fiduciaries must not factor their own needs/benefits when determining what is best for a client/trustee, and must act in the best interest for a client.  

There are certain employees hired by the Bills that have financial positions, and thus fiduciary responsibility to the organization.  COO, CFO, contracts, business admin, accounting, etc., would fall under this umbrella.    Most other employees do not.  

 

[That Aud Smell]

50 minutes ago, Eleven said:

They're not going to part a sea of anything.  I'm gonna swim in it.  I may drown.  But Mallo Cup filling in the lungs has to be a decent way to go, right?

That's a deft combination of refined taste and big goals.

[Weave]

52 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You are kind of failing MBA 101 here @Weave.  

The Bills are not a corporation, they do not sell shares to the public.  The Bills are a privately owned limited liability company, LLC, meaning the ownership is protected from certain liabilities related to the business. 

A fiduciary, generally speaking, is a person that is responsible to manage and make money for another person, some financial planners/investment managers are fiduciaries.  Fiduciaries must not factor their own needs/benefits when determining what is best for a client/trustee, and must act in the best interest for a client.  

There are certain employees hired by the Bills that have financial positions, and thus fiduciary responsibility to the organization.  COO, CFO, contracts, business admin, accounting, etc., would fall under this umbrella.    Most other employees do not.  

 

A corporation is not required to sell shares publicly, no?  And forgive me for not checking to see if PSE ended in corp or llc. My bad, but I don’t think it harms my point.

And acting in the best interests of the owner was exactly what I was referring to, even if worded less than ideally.

My business experience is that every manger in a company has fiduciary responsibilities to the owner(s).

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

You are kind of failing MBA 101 here @Weave.  

The Bills are not a corporation, they do not sell shares to the public. 

My guy.

Some corporations are public. Some are private. The Bills - which I believe are organized as Buffalo Bills LLC - are indeed a corporate entity. A private one. A wholly held subsidiary of PSE, I believe. Which is also a private corporation.

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

There are certain employees hired by the Bills that have financial positions, and thus fiduciary responsibility to the organization.  COO, CFO, contracts, business admin, accounting, etc., would fall under this umbrella.    Most other employees do not.  

All agents owe their principal fiduciary duties.

[Weave]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

My guy.

Some corporations are public. Some are private. The Bills - which I believe are organized as Buffalo Bills LLC - are indeed a corporate entity. A private one. A wholly held subsidiary of PSE, I believe. Which is also a private corporation.

His textbooks are out of date.

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

His textbooks are out of date.

Ha. Except that this proposition:

3 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

All agents owe their principal fiduciary duties.

Is as old as the hills.

[Weave]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

Ha. Except that this proposition:

Is as old as the hills.

Maybe they were Caribbean Island college textbooks.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

A corporation is not required to sell shares publicly, no?  And forgive me for not checking to see if PSE ended in corp or llc. My bad, but I don’t think it harms my point.

And acting in the best interests of the owner was exactly what I was referring to, even if worded less than ideally.

My business experience is that every manger in a company has fiduciary responsibilities to the owner(s).

Yes, acting in the best interest of the owner (or the Company as determined by the BoD) is correct. 

Companies do pound that into every manager and with good reason.   To run a healthy business managers must maintain their cost budgets while meeting their goals/requirements/deliveries in addition to leading their staff.  

I consult now on a limited part time basis.   I do not directly participate in corporate culture but it sure help to understand it and how it varies from company to company.  

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

My guy.

Some corporations are public. Some are private. The Bills - which I believe are organized as Buffalo Bills LLC - are indeed a corporate entity. A private one. A wholly held subsidiary of PSE, I believe. Which is also a private corporation.

All agents owe their principal fiduciary duties.

My bad, I know corporations can be public or private and I forgot the the Bills LLC being under PSE.  

I understand that all agents of the company have fiduciary responsibilities.  But not all employees are agents of the company, which is what I thought Weave was saying at first.   

thanks. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Pimlach