Any interest in Thatcher Demko?

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Are people convinced UPL is the answer moving forward?

In my case, it is more that Demko's trouble this season scares me.

2 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

As a Vancouver resident I can tell you Demko has been awful this year, fallen right off a cliff. I wouldn't even make the phone call.

 

He has been Tokarski-ish this year.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Marvin said:

In my case, it is more that Demko's trouble this season scares me.

He has been Tokarski-ish this year.

This is fair, but I’m going to put a lot more emphasis on his body of work than a 15-game stretch on this year’s most dysfunctional team.

His resume and his numbers up to this season are textbook goalie development. Last year he was definitely among the league’s best goalies. He’s a high pick who has excelled at every level. To me this screams buy low and profit.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=146146

[Sabres73]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is fair, but I’m going to put a lot more emphasis on his body of work than a 15-game stretch on this year’s most dysfunctional team.

His resume and his numbers up to this season are textbook goalie development. Last year he was definitely among the league’s best goalies. He’s a high pick who has excelled at every level. To me this screams buy low and profit.

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=146146

He's been contributing to the disfunction, not a victim of it. Living in Van we see all their games. He's completely lost it.  And he's been injured a lot. Buyer beware. 

[LabattBlue]

Buffalo Sabres Commandment # 1…

Thou shalt not block. 

[LGR4GM]

I don't have a lot of interest. 

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't have a lot of interest. 

I hate to keep posting basically the same thing on every trade thread, but I'm not terribly intetested in any one idea.  If they find something out there that they can get for a GREAT deal, I'll listen. But right now, I'm happy with the team the way it is. They aren't perfect, but I'm more than willing to just let things ride for the rest of the year, evaluate the team in the offseason and go from there.

More than aquiring anyone, I'm more interested in seeling UPL and Comrie play more this season, then getting to the offseason and hopefully addressing Cozens contract, and in the offseason see what you can do for an addition d-man.

Edited January 31, 2023 by mjd1001

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, Sabres73 said:

He's been contributing to the disfunction, not a victim of it. Living in Van we see all their games. He's completely lost it.  And he's been injured a lot. Buyer beware. 

I live in B.C. and follow the Canucks more closely than any team but the Sabres. 
He’s been bad and injured this year. That’s it.

He was their best player last year and consistently very good since his run in the playoff bubble three years ago. He has missed one week due to injury in his NHL career prior to this season.

Edited January 31, 2023 by dudacek

[nfreeman]

Demko is under contract for 3 more seasons after this one at $5MM per year.  Comrie has 1 more year at $1.8MM, while UPL has 1 more year at $837K.  Demko turns 28 in December.

Demko has been Van's #1 for 2 full seasons -- the abbreviated 20-21 season, in which he started 35 games, and last season, in which he started 64 games.  In both of those seasons, he had a .915 SV%, which is very good, especially considering the high-pressure and fairly dysfunctional environment he worked in.

All of which is to say that I agree that he fits the profile.  And getting him wouldn't necessarily dissuade Levi from signing, since presumably UPL would be shipped out, Anderson will retire and Comrie only has 1 year left on his deal.

I'd guess the Canucks would want UPL coming back, plus picks/prospects.  I wouldn't expect KA to give up his 2023 #1, but maybe the best #2, plus Rosen or Östlund?

OTOH, the guys might feel like UPL is a core member of the group and has gotten them to the threshold of the playoffs, so this might be a bad chemistry move.

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Demko is under contract for 3 more seasons after this one at $5MM per year.  Comrie has 1 more year at $1.8MM, while UPL has 1 more year at $837K.  Demko turns 28 in December.

Demko has been Van's #1 for 2 full seasons -- the abbreviated 20-21 season, in which he started 35 games, and last season, in which he started 64 games.  In both of those seasons, he had a .915 SV%, which is very good, especially considering the high-pressure and fairly dysfunctional environment he worked in.

All of which is to say that I agree that he fits the profile.  And getting him wouldn't necessarily dissuade Levi from signing, since presumably UPL would be shipped out, Anderson will retire and Comrie only has 1 year left on his deal.

I'd guess the Canucks would want UPL coming back, plus picks/prospects.  I wouldn't expect KA to give up his 2023 #1, but maybe the best #2, plus Rosen or Östlund?

OTOH, the guys might feel like UPL is a core member of the group and has gotten them to the threshold of the playoffs, so this might be a bad chemistry move.

This.

Basically, for me it comes down to whether or not you believe in UPL.

This thread is one of the most clear examples of recency bias I’ve ever seen. In the space of less than 20 NHL games we’ve gone from “UPL sucks, when is Adams ever going to get a goalie” to “not interested” in a young already-established #1.

Demko is the best goalie to hit the market since Ullmark left.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This.

Basically, for me it comes down to whether or not you believe in UPL.

This thread is one of the most clear examples of recency bias I’ve ever seen. In the space of less than 20 NHL games we’ve gone from “UPL sucks, when is Adams ever going to get a goalie” to “not interested” in a young already-established #1.

Demko is the best goalie to hit the market since Ullmark left.

 

Not really for me. It comes down to cost to acquire and if Demko can actually rebound. I'm skeptical on both. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This.

Basically, for me it comes down to whether or not you believe in UPL.

This thread is one of the most clear examples of recency bias I’ve ever seen. In the space of less than 20 NHL games we’ve gone from “UPL sucks, when is Adams ever going to get a goalie” to “not interested” in a young already-established #1.

Demko is the best goalie to hit the market since Ullmark left.

 

There is no question that the above is true. The question is what does KA think and how will he proceed.  My guess is he'll default to the status quo.

[Marvin]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Not really for me. It comes down to cost to acquire and if Demko can actually rebound. I'm skeptical on both. 

This is where I am.  It might come down to price and whether or not Mike Bales thinks that Demko's problems can be fixed.

[dudacek]

26 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Not really for me. It comes down to cost to acquire and if Demko can actually rebound. I'm skeptical on both. 

 

7 minutes ago, Marvin said:

This is where I am.  It might come down to price and whether or not Mike Bales thinks that Demko's problems can be fixed.

Why are you skeptical about his ability to rebound?

His track record has been impeccable prior to now, his slump is 15 games.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

Why are you skeptical about his ability to rebound?

His track record has been impeccable prior to now, his slump is 15 games.

Because he's a goalie.

[JohnC]

27 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This.

Basically, for me it comes down to whether or not you believe in UPL.

This thread is one of the most clear examples of recency bias I’ve ever seen. In the space of less than 20 NHL games we’ve gone from “UPL sucks, when is Adams ever going to get a goalie” to “not interested” in a young already-established #1.

Demko is the best goalie to hit the market since Ullmark left.

 

Especially for a young goalie, I would rather make a judgment on his recent play than his prior play. There is no question that UPL's play for the past 15 games or so has been good. The current level of play of UPL is a major factor why we are winning at the rate we are. Is this period of time long enough to make a judgment on him? Not definitively, but certainly encouraging. 

As you point out with your posts on Demko, evaluating a goalie is extremely difficult. There are periods where a goalie can sparkle for a period of time, and then for a variety of reasons, some inexplicable, descend into the abyss. Sometimes a change of teams can temporarily resuscitate the play of the goalie, only then to again falter. 

There are less than a half a dozen elite goalies whose standard of play is consistent over a number of seasons. For the majority of the pack, it is difficult to predict how the goalies are going to perform. A shining star goalie in one season can turn out to be a dim star the next season. When it comes to evaluating goalies the best approach to take is to be humble when assessing goalies. 

[Contempt]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Especially for a young goalie, I would rather make a judgment on his recent play than his prior play. There is no question that UPL's play for the past 15 games or so has been good. The current level of play of UPL is a major factor why we are winning at the rate we are. Is this period of time long enough to make a judgment on him? Not definitively, but certainly encouraging. 

As you point out with your posts on Demko, evaluating a goalie is extremely difficult. There are periods where a goalie can sparkle for a period of time, and then for a variety of reasons, some inexplicable, descend into the abyss. Sometimes a change of teams can temporarily resuscitate the play of the goalie, only then to again falter. 

There are less than a half a dozen elite goalies whose standard of play is consistent over a number of seasons. For the majority of the pack, it is difficult to predict how the goalies are going to perform. A shining star goalie in one season can turn out to be a dim star the next season. When it comes to evaluating goalies the best approach to take is to be humble when assessing goalies. 

See also Bobrovsky, Sergei

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If he is an available now, he’ll be available in the summer. From Van‘s standpoint

I'm talking about if he's traded to another team, he won't be available this summer.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Are people convinced UPL is the answer moving forward?

No, but I suspect of tandem of UPL and Demko might be more tenable over the mid- to long-term than UPL and Comrie.  But even then I'm not sure.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don’t know what went wrong this year, but he was a fantastic goalie on a bad team each of the 3 years prior.

He thrived despite all the high-danger chances the Canucks gave up. And, in my view, disguised a lot of their issues that have been exposed this year.

He’s just 27

And Demko put up better numbers over 3 seasons on a worse team.

To my way of thinking, not interested because UPL is like saying not interested in Meier because Quinn and Peterka.

But I guess I am a lot higher than on Demko than most appear to be here. I think over the next 5 years he is a good bet to be among the top 10 goalies.

In addition to the other questions, the big ones IMHO (& don't follow the Nucks, so this question brought up by the way you worded your post might not even be relevant) would be is Demko the sort of goalie that needs a lot of work IN GAME & are the Sabres going to remain the sort of team that gives up a lot of chances or will they tighten up their D as the team figures out its O and as they age beyond the youngest in the league.

Because if he does need a lot of work in a particular game to be good, it could be a match made in heaven at present but could become Denis Herron in Moe-ray-all a year or 2 from now.  (For you younguns, Herron was an amazing goalie on really bad KC & Pittsburgh teams in the mid-late 70's.  He had a bad GAA but that was because he faced a ton of shots, a lot of which were high danger.  Those teams should've lost a lot worse than they did.  When Dryden retired, the Habs picked him up figuring that w/ a normal workload he'd be even better.  But he couldn't backstop a good team.  He didn't get nearly enough work to stay sharp in game there and his time in Moe-ray-all was pretty much a failure.) 

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Are people convinced UPL is the answer moving forward?

 

No.  But he might be.

[Huckleberry]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Demko is under contract for 3 more seasons after this one at $5MM per year.  Comrie has 1 more year at $1.8MM, while UPL has 1 more year at $837K.  Demko turns 28 in December.

Demko has been Van's #1 for 2 full seasons -- the abbreviated 20-21 season, in which he started 35 games, and last season, in which he started 64 games.  In both of those seasons, he had a .915 SV%, which is very good, especially considering the high-pressure and fairly dysfunctional environment he worked in.

All of which is to say that I agree that he fits the profile.  And getting him wouldn't necessarily dissuade Levi from signing, since presumably UPL would be shipped out, Anderson will retire and Comrie only has 1 year left on his deal.

I'd guess the Canucks would want UPL coming back, plus picks/prospects.  I wouldn't expect KA to give up his 2023 #1, but maybe the best #2, plus Rosen or Östlund?

OTOH, the guys might feel like UPL is a core member of the group and has gotten them to the threshold of the playoffs, so this might be a bad chemistry move.

Way to much for a goalie playing at an AHL level,  They can have Comrie and 3rd and be happy he is gone.  

Östlund is projected as a possible future 1C , you don't trade that for a goalie that crapped the bed and will cost you 5 mill 3 more seasons.

[GASabresIUFAN]

34 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I'm talking about if he's traded to another team, he won't be available this summer.

He won’t be.  His cap hit is to high for teams to fit under their cap.  Hard for Van to get their asking price if so few teams can afford his cap hit.  Most deals like this happen in the summer.

Edited January 31, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

 

Why are you skeptical about his ability to rebound?

His track record has been impeccable prior to now, his slump is 15 games.

Because I remember Gerry Desjardins collapsing mentally in Game 5 of the 1975 Stanley Cup Finals and never having confidence in the playoffs again.

I am not against getting him.  I am just wary of the price and the possibility that his problem may not be fixable; it could be a combination of injury, confidence, technique, and shell shock from backstopping Vancouver's horrendous defence.  Thus, before we consider acquiring him, I need to know that Bales is confident that he can fix whatever Demko's problems are this season.

[Sabres73]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

Why are you skeptical about his ability to rebound?

His track record has been impeccable prior to now, his slump is 15 games.

His slump is season long - the Canucks clearly have not been in a rush to put him back in the net because he's been outplayed by the "backups".

This years stats (not last years or any previous year):

GP 15   W3   L10   GAA 3.93    SV% .883

And we're considering trading our up and coming goaltender for this hot mess? I'll also mention the losses have predominantly been on him, not as much the team around him. He's really let the Canucks down this season, which is why they want him moved.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Sabres73

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Demko is under contract for 3 more seasons after this one at $5MM per year.  Comrie has 1 more year at $1.8MM, while UPL has 1 more year at $837K.  Demko turns 28 in December.

Demko has been Van's #1 for 2 full seasons -- the abbreviated 20-21 season, in which he started 35 games, and last season, in which he started 64 games.  In both of those seasons, he had a .915 SV%, which is very good, especially considering the high-pressure and fairly dysfunctional environment he worked in.

All of which is to say that I agree that he fits the profile.  And getting him wouldn't necessarily dissuade Levi from signing, since presumably UPL would be shipped out, Anderson will retire and Comrie only has 1 year left on his deal.

I'd guess the Canucks would want UPL coming back, plus picks/prospects.  I wouldn't expect KA to give up his 2023 #1, but maybe the best #2, plus Rosen or Östlund?

OTOH, the guys might feel like UPL is a core member of the group and has gotten them to the threshold of the playoffs, so this might be a bad chemistry move.

Why is it UPL that moves?  Why not Comrie?  I acknowledge your point about contract length, if if you want to keep the best goalie for the future, it may be UPL.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Demko is under contract for 3 more seasons after this one at $5MM per year.  Comrie has 1 more year at $1.8MM, while UPL has 1 more year at $837K.  Demko turns 28 in December.

Demko has been Van's #1 for 2 full seasons -- the abbreviated 20-21 season, in which he started 35 games, and last season, in which he started 64 games.  In both of those seasons, he had a .915 SV%, which is very good, especially considering the high-pressure and fairly dysfunctional environment he worked in.

All of which is to say that I agree that he fits the profile.  And getting him wouldn't necessarily dissuade Levi from signing, since presumably UPL would be shipped out, Anderson will retire and Comrie only has 1 year left on his deal.

I'd guess the Canucks would want UPL coming back, plus picks/prospects.  I wouldn't expect KA to give up his 2023 #1, but maybe the best #2, plus Rosen or Östlund?

OTOH, the guys might feel like UPL is a core member of the group and has gotten them to the threshold of the playoffs, so this might be a bad chemistry move.

Hell no!!

Edited February 1, 2023 by Hank