Bobby Hull passes away at 84.

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Everyone deserves a defense. Well, almost everyone. Tony Danza does not.

The man's life is over. He made many mistakes. There's a complete story to be told.

Whitewashing people is dangerous.

If modern standards of cancellation were applied to this board anyone, few would be left.

So close to a very excellent post.

(Didn't get the Tony Danza reference.  Was it something about following up Taxi w/ Who's the Boss or something about his time as a talk show host?  And, no, that's not why it ws only close.)

The guy was a great hockey player but seems to have had more warts than most.  Hopefully his story can be yet another basis of an admonition to not treat athletes or other entertainers as heroes simply because they are more coordinated &/or stronger &/or more graceful &/or quicker than the average person.  Look to the rest of what makes them who they are before going there.  (And really that can be said about most anyone; not just those seeking the spotlight.)

And, back to (presumably) PA's point, people by definition are flawed.  Those that revel in watching others get shredded by the Jacobins aught to be careful lest they find their own actions & thoughts to be the next target.

Hope Hull may RIP.  The hockey world lost a great player.  But won't be celebrating his accomplishments.

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There are people who due to religion, culture or simply personal views have different (less modern) opinions on race, women, sexuality etc. that are contrary to the mainstream/prevailing view on these topics. Often, these people do get excoriated and sometimes cancelled because of their minority beliefs. Although, I'm more likely to disagree with these less than enlightened/modern views, it has to be acknowledged that there is less tolerance for those holding those views. 

In addition, due to social media and the internet (modern communication) there is an intensity and swiftness of response that didn't exist a number of years ago to comments that are not aligned with the majority view. As an example: Dave Chapelle is a comedian whose views are usually very updated and liberal. He has made comments about gays and transgenders in his act that many found offensive. And because of it there were some who try to get him cancelled. He's a stubborn and strong-willed guy whose response was to double down on issues/responses that some considered controversial. 

Someone says or does something unpopular and said someone is then “cancelled.” That is the same “standard” that has existed since the first tribal banishment, shunning, excommunication, etc. Modern mass communication abilities and the rapidity with which this info can be disseminated is not relevant to the cause, which is nothing more than the same, age-old human emotion that seeks retribution against an individual or group that has said or done something we find offensive.

“Wokeness” and “cancel culture” are simply nothing new. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

There are people who due to religion, culture or simply personal views have different (less modern) opinions on race, women, sexuality etc. that are contrary to the mainstream/prevailing view on these topics. Often, these people do get excoriated and sometimes cancelled because of their minority beliefs. Although, I'm more likely to disagree with these less than enlightened/modern views, it has to be acknowledged that there is less tolerance for those holding those views. 

In addition, due to social media and the internet (modern communication) there is an intensity and swiftness of response that didn't exist a number of years ago to comments that are not aligned with the majority view. As an example: Dave Chapelle is a comedian whose views are usually very updated and liberal. He has made comments about gays and transgenders in his act that many found offensive. And because of it there were some who try to get him cancelled. He's a stubborn and strong-willed guy whose response was to double down on issues/responses that some considered controversial. 

In the past they were censored.  We’ve actually grown with “canceling “.  Everyone has a voice if they have the stomach for the reaction.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

In the past they were censored.  We’ve actually grown with “canceling “.  Everyone has a voice if they have the stomach for the reaction.

Cancelling can sometimes be even more insidious than being censored because a person can lose their career by having an opinion that goes against the mainstream. Sometimes saying something foolish or even ignorant shouldn't get to the point of losing one's ability to work. 

[Weave]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Cancelling can sometimes be even more insidious than being censored because a person can lose their career by having an opinion that goes against the mainstream. Sometimes saying something foolish or even ignorant shouldn't get to the point of losing one's ability to work. 

Its not a new thing as suggested upthread though.  Not even close.  It’s just a popular new buzzword in some circles to denigrate common human behavior perpetrated by all sides.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Weave

[Goldseatsaud]

Bobby and Dennis Hull along with Brett. Bobby scared a lot of goalies out there boy he had a wicked slap shot

[SwampD]

So, he actually said, "Hitler had some good ideas, he just went a little bit too far."

You just can't defend that.

 

Hey Bobby, what would have been just far enough, 4 million?… 2 million?… 6?

Ugh.

 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

Someone says or does something unpopular and said someone is then “cancelled.” That is the same “standard” that has existed since the first tribal banishment, shunning, excommunication, etc. Modern mass communication abilities and the rapidity with which this info can be disseminated is not relevant to the cause, which is nothing more than the same, age-old human emotion that seeks retribution against an individual or group that has said or done something we find offensive.

“Wokeness” and “cancel culture” are simply nothing new. 

What changes over time is the "something unpopular" part.  Some things that were acceptable and common decades ago might be considered abhorrent today. 

[Quint]

There are some real sickos out there dancing on Hull's grave not even a day after he passed on. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

What changes over time is the "something unpopular" part.  Some things that were acceptable and common decades ago might be considered abhorrent today. 

That’s a given as cultural and societal values and norms evolve. But the human emotion behind it all, the reason we ostracize others, never does. 

Your point about what was once acceptable and common is an interesting one. I have a hunch that what was once acceptable to some never was to others at the time. And it took many “woke” progressive movements to move forward societally. There are numerous examples throughout history. One could argue that our very creation as a nation was the result of a “woke” movement.

Nothing new under the sun as the saying goes.

[dudacek]

It’s the forum that’s changed -where you communicate, what and who hears it.

Lines have been blurred about what is and should be private and public.

The Hull Tweet above is a good example of this. A generation ago, people would have freely debated his merits as a hockey player and a human being in cafes, pubs and lunch rooms. Very few would done so in front of his grandson.

I suspect very few did so considering they were doing it in front of his grandson, and most who did were only doing so because there would never be any personal repercussion.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Weave said:

Its not a new thing as suggested upthread though.  Not even close.  It’s just a popular new buzzword in some circles to denigrate common human behavior perpetrated by all sides.

I agree with you that it is not a new thing. But is it more prevalent for these public scathing judgments? I think so. 

[Weave]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you that it is not a new thing. But is it more prevalent for these public scathing judgments? I think so. 

Meh.  Hull has been shunned for a long time.

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

Meh.  Hull has been shunned for a long time.

I was speaking in general. As you said Hull has been in the wilderness by himself for a long time. 

[Radar]

16 hours ago, Pimlach said:

What changes over time is the "something unpopular" part.  Some things that were acceptable and common decades ago might be considered abhorrent today. 

And vice versa.