Kids In The Line Up This Year vs Next Year

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I could be wrong, but isn't this the last year for Savoie in junior? 

He was born a few hours too late to be AHL eligible next year.  Which is why he likely gets 9 games to start the year presuming there's an opening.  Whether he gets a 10th game is on him.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

He was born a few hours too late to be AHL eligible next year.  Which is why he likely gets 9 games to start the year presuming there's an opening.  Whether he gets a 10th game is on him.

I wondering if he becomes the extra forward. The chl arrangement is trash for 1st round picks and Savoie will learn more practicing in Buffalo than he will playing as a 20yr old in the WHL.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I wondering if he becomes the extra forward. The chl arrangement is trash for 1st round picks and Savoie will learn more practicing in Buffalo than he will playing as a 20yr old in the WHL.

Hmm. Quinn, JJP and Krebs learned more practicing with the big club. Savioe next year. I feel a trend developing.

[steveoath]

If Savoie plays enough in Buffalo to "count" as 1 of the ELC years, but the management then decide he is struggling and needs to play elsewhere, does that also mean CHL? Or is he then classed as an NHL player and can move to Roc?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, steveoath said:

If Savoie plays enough in Buffalo to "count" as 1 of the ELC years, but the management then decide he is struggling and needs to play elsewhere, does that also mean CHL? Or is he then classed as an NHL player and can move to Roc?

I don't know. I am fairly certain he would have to go back to the CHL but maybe there is a loophole. 

[JoeSchmoe]

I don't want Savoie until he shows he can dominate in the WHL. From the looks of the stat sheet, he appears to be pretty far behind expectation.

[dudacek]

I think they should explore Savoie getting loaned to a Euro men’s league: play in the SEL or the Swiss league against men. He’s definitely looking like he gains nothing in the Dub, and I don’t think he’s ready to contribute much in the NHL given the guys in front of him.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

Hmm. Quinn, JJP and Krebs learned more practicing with the big club. Savioe next year. I feel a trend developing.

The difference is that Quinn, JJ and to a lesser extent got playing time in Rochester. Although Krebs's stint in Rochester was short it served him well. It just seems that Savoie got caught up in the birthday abyss. I would rather see him getting extensive playing time in the WHL and get the extra year to physically mature. 

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think they should explore Savoie getting loaned to a Euro men’s league: play in the SEL or the Swiss league against men. He’s definitely looking like he gains nothing in the Dub, and I don’t think he’s ready to contribute much in the NHL given the guys in front of him.

Does that happen much?

[dudacek]

32 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I don't want Savoie until he shows he can dominate in the WHL. From the looks of the stat sheet, he appears to be pretty far behind expectation.

These are the D1 numbers of our top recent WHLers:

• Reinhart 65 points, 47 games
• Cozens 85 points, 51 games
• Krebs 60 points, 38 games
• Savoie 51 points 38 games

What were your expectations?

It’s interesting that he’s pretty much on pace with Reinhart, who put up 40 points in the NHL the following year, but also behind Krebs, who was still 2 years away from the NHL.

Cozens was more productive than any of them, but was just borderline NHL in his D2 year.

Krebs went back to junior in his D2 year and put up 43 in just 24 games.

A big difference between Krebs and Savoie is that Krebs was on a terrible team and Savoie a stacked one.

Edited January 31, 2023 by dudacek

[French Collection]

34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't know. I am fairly certain he would have to go back to the CHL but maybe there is a loophole. 

The only loophole I know of is a 5 game conditioning stint in the AHL, like the Kraken did with Shane Wright this year.

Savoie could be loaned to the Canadian World Junior team for December.

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The difference is that Quinn, JJ and to a lesser extent got playing time in Rochester. Although Krebs's stint in Rochester was short it served him well. It just seems that Savoie got caught up in the birthday abyss. I would rather see him getting extensive playing time in the WHL and get the extra year to physically mature. 

Does that happen much?

Nope.

Austin Matthews did it in his draft year. Don’t remember another North American teenager doing it. Lots of Euros do it.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

Hmm. Quinn, JJP and Krebs learned more practicing with the big club. Savioe next year. I feel a trend developing.

I think unless they think Savoie is going to be at least as effective in the NHL next year as JJP and Quinn are this year, they will not want to use a roster slot and burn a year of his ELC.

NB that this is Quinn's and JJP's D+3 season, while next year will be Savoie's D+2 season.

 

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think they should explore Savoie getting loaned to a Euro men’s league: play in the SEL or the Swiss league against men. He’s definitely looking like he gains nothing in the Dub, and I don’t think he’s ready to contribute much in the NHL given the guys in front of him.

This is interesting.  I wonder what the effect on his ELC would be?  I'd guess it would burn a year, as it would be a pro league, but maybe not.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

I think unless they think Savoie is going to be at least as effective in the NHL next year as JJP and Quinn are this year, they will not want to use a roster slot and burn a year of his ELC.

NB that this is Quinn's and JJP's D+3 season, while next year will be Savoie's D+2 season.

 

This is interesting.  I wonder what the effect on his ELC would be?  I'd guess it would burn a year, as it would be a po league, but maybe not.

They aren’t burning a year with Östlund and Kulich playing in pro leagues this year, so I doubt it.

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Nope.

Austin Matthews did it in his draft year. Don’t remember another North American teenager doing it. Lots of Euros do it.

I can’t think of anyone either. Brad Lambert has Finnish/Canadian roots and chose to play in Finland and moved to the AHL in D+1. He has since been assigned to the WHL.

Puuljujarvi went back to Finland after an NHL stint to try and regain his confidence. He was from there though.

It would be interesting if Savoie took this course of action. He would make some money instead of riding CHL buses.

[French Collection]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

These are the D1 numbers of our top recent WHLers:

• Reinhart 65 points, 47 games
• Cozens 85 points, 51 games
• Krebs 60 points, 38 games
• Savoie 51 points 38 games

What were your expectations?

It’s interesting that he’s pretty much on pace with Reinhart, who put up 40 points in the NHL the following year, but also behind Krebs, who was still 2 years away from the NHL.

Cozens was more productive than any of them, but was borderline NHL in his D2 year.

Krebs went back to junior in his D2 year and put up 43 in just 24 games.

A big difference between Krebs and Savoie is that Krebs was on a terrible team and Savoie a stacked one.

Interesting numbers and all 1st rounders.

Savoie plays like Cozens but is built like Krebs. Unless he really bulks up this summer he will have a hard time in the NHL.

I think he gets his 9 games and there will be some tough decisions to make.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, steveoath said:

If Savoie plays enough in Buffalo to "count" as 1 of the ELC years, but the management then decide he is struggling and needs to play elsewhere, does that also mean CHL? Or is he then classed as an NHL player and can move to Roc?

Doesn't matter how many games he plays or sits for in Buffalo in '23-'24, if he's playing in NA he's either in the NHL or the CHL.  Those are the 2 options.

Snd, to @dudacek's thoughts on him going to Europe.  Have never seen the CHL-NHL agreement, so not 100% positive that a player can't be loaned to a European club if he has signed a contract there, but pretty sure that's not possible until the CHL player is 20.  Under the CBA, an NHL club is required to offer 18 & 19 yo players to their CHL club before loaning them anywhere else.  So, really doubt that Europe is an option either.

Matthews went to Europe on his own prior to being drafted.  He wasn't under contract to the Loafs.

[LGR4GM]

I want to toss out that some around here are talking about moving Quinn to the 3rd line or even trading him. Quinn is going to be an absolute nightmare for teams within the next 2 years. Granato was talking this morning about how Quinn is slight and needs to add that muscle to be able to do what he did against Minnesota consistently. He is one of the most skilled players on this team and every year he has progressed from juniors to the ahl to hopefully the nhl, he has seen a high upwards trajectory. Just wanted to throw that out there. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I wondering if he becomes the extra forward. The chl arrangement is trash for 1st round picks and Savoie will learn more practicing in Buffalo than he will playing as a 20yr old in the WHL.

Expect it would come down to how well he plays in that 9 game tryout, should he get it.  

Each of the 3 waiver exempt rookie/2nd year players that the Sabres have sat on occasion either had a fair amount of NHL games played previously or blew the AHL out of the water.  They gain nothing by being in the AHL.  While Savoie likely won't gain anything by playing as a 20 yo in junior, if he isn't ready for the NHL but would be an ideal fit for the AHL not sure that they'd have him ride in the pressbox for nearly an entire year.  If they think playing 30-30 games would benefit him, then sure they might make him next year's Krebs.  But if they expect him to be Mitts in D+2 or Thompson his 1st year in Buffalo at best, could see him going back.  As both players seemed to regress from where they'd been and both would've been better served in the AHL and both improved their play in the AHL.

The other thing to consider is, his ELC can slide 1 more year.  With all the big contracts anticipated to be getting earned in the next 2-3 seasons, having what should be a solid contributor on a 3 year ELC starting in '24-'25 wouldn't be a bad thing.  And IMHO that was part of the reason they didn't give Frick & Frack a 2nd look down the stretch last year.  It kept them each from burning an ELC year.

All that said, especially if Okposo decides to move on, expect him to get his 9 game try out & unless he looks like Reinhart did in his tryout that he'll stay up w/ the Sabres & Kulich will be the 1st injury call up.  If Savoie falters in his tryout, then Kulich grabs his spot.  (Can't see Asplund happy w/ this season's turn of events as he needs some guys getting hurt to get into the lineup now & there are at least 4 kids that could be better than him next year pushing for a job.)

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I want to toss out that some around here are talking about moving Quinn to the 3rd line or even trading him. Quinn is going to be an absolute nightmare for teams within the next 2 years. Granato was talking this morning about how Quinn is slight and needs to add that muscle to be able to do what he did against Minnesota consistently. He is one of the most skilled players on this team and every year he has progressed from juniors to the ahl to hopefully the nhl, he has seen a high upwards trajectory. Just wanted to throw that out there. 

You might be interested in knowing that at last night's B&G Insights, both he & Frack (or is he Frack & the German one is Frick?) mentioned that their cardio training is almost entirely practices & games and their off-ice training is nearly exclusively strength training under the supervision of the training staff.  Everybody knows the biggest thing holding these 2 back is not being man strong yet.  (Though Peterka seems closer to it at this time than Quinn IMHO.) 

[French Collection]

57 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I want to toss out that some around here are talking about moving Quinn to the 3rd line or even trading him. Quinn is going to be an absolute nightmare for teams within the next 2 years. Granato was talking this morning about how Quinn is slight and needs to add that muscle to be able to do what he did against Minnesota consistently. He is one of the most skilled players on this team and every year he has progressed from juniors to the ahl to hopefully the nhl, he has seen a high upwards trajectory. Just wanted to throw that out there. 

When I watched Quinn in the OHL he was a shooter first and foremost. He has added some great layers to his skill set. He can shoot like VO, but stick handles almost as well as TNT. He works defensively, reminding me of Mark Stone. His passing is good too.

This kid just needs more strength.

I think his numbers will get much better to where they have another point a game player on this roster.

[JoeSchmoe]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

These are the D1 numbers of our top recent WHLers:

• Reinhart 65 points, 47 games
• Cozens 85 points, 51 games
• Krebs 60 points, 38 games
• Savoie 51 points 38 games

What were your expectations?

It’s interesting that he’s pretty much on pace with Reinhart, who put up 40 points in the NHL the following year, but also behind Krebs, who was still 2 years away from the NHL.

Cozens was more productive than any of them, but was just borderline NHL in his D2 year.

Krebs went back to junior in his D2 year and put up 43 in just 24 games.

A big difference between Krebs and Savoie is that Krebs was on a terrible team and Savoie a stacked one.

You can't compare point production from Reinhart's era to now. 

You're better off looking at ppg ranking. Savoie is 22nd. Reinhart was 9th.

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

These are the D1 numbers of our top recent WHLers:

• Reinhart 65 points, 47 games
• Cozens 85 points, 51 games
• Krebs 60 points, 38 games
• Savoie 51 points 38 games

What were your expectations?

It’s interesting that he’s pretty much on pace with Reinhart, who put up 40 points in the NHL the following year, but also behind Krebs, who was still 2 years away from the NHL.

Cozens was more productive than any of them, but was just borderline NHL in his D2 year.

Krebs went back to junior in his D2 year and put up 43 in just 24 games.

A big difference between Krebs and Savoie is that Krebs was on a terrible team and Savoie a stacked one.

Interesting that 3 of the 4 played for the Kootenay/Winnipeg Ice. Only Krebs and Savoie have played for James Patrick.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Is Savoie being hampered somewhat by playing on a stacked team? 

[steveoath]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think they should explore Savoie getting loaned to a Euro men’s league: play in the SEL or the Swiss league against men. He’s definitely looking like he gains nothing in the Dub, and I don’t think he’s ready to contribute much in the NHL given the guys in front of him.

Would be kinda cool to have him in the same team as Östlund.

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, tom webster said:

Hmm. Quinn, JJP and Krebs learned more practicing with the big club. Savioe next year. I feel a trend developing.

All 3 of those guys did AHL time first though. It's an important step imo.