2023-24 Sabres Early Thoughts

[steveoath]

Nothing to do with the Buffalo connection. Just looking at the UFA list and potential signings that could bring a edge to the game, and he fits the bill.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Except the VO move I could go with this... interesting thoughts.

With Tuch, Skinner, JJP, Quinn locked in as 4 of the top 6 wingers, if you bring in Meier one of Mitts or VO have to go.  I doubt KA/DG want either as a 4th line energy player.  So the question is who would KA/DG keep between Mitts and VO.  

How do they decide?  Some people here would say Mitts sucks trade him now for a bag of pucks.  I doubt KA will use that rationale.  They'll look at cost, market value, position versatility, skill set vs team needs, age, contract, and team control among other factors.  The debate may come down to age and skill set.  Playmaker vs goal scorer.  

I settled on VO because of age and what I perceive as a higher market value right now.  30 goal scorers are hard to come by and VO, who has one more year on his deal, might fetch a 1st rd pick at the deadline or in the off-season from a contending team looking for depth scoring.  This is contingent on getting a goal scorer like Meier in a separate deal.

From a Sabres standpoint, keeping a younger playmaker, who plays multiple positions and is under team control weighs toward keep Mitts on the Sabres for now.   

Possible top 3 lines if Meier is acquired

Skinner TnT Tuch

JJP Cozens Meier

Mitts Jost Quinn

Edited January 30, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Pimlach]

On 1/27/2023 at 11:18 AM, Night Train said:

Thanks for all the above posted figures going forward. 

 Cozens must stick. I don't pretend to know how certain Forwards are viewed by KA and Granato but Kyle O and his linemate ZG are probably done here. They need to add more youth and scoring somewhere.  Who is stepping up will be determined. Jost and Krebs can take their spots. 

 Andersons wife and kids are in Florida. He, being 42, will join them. UPL and Cromrie in Goal with hopefully Levi in Rochester.  

 Agree with some thoughts on D. That could be the spot KA is looking outside to improve. Don't pretend to know the names. They still need to play better in their zone and cut down on the giveaways. Yet the D core needs to improve moving people out in front of the net and clearing the puck. 

 Would be surprised to see any major trade happen in the next month. Seems to counter what they are doing. 

 

I would not be so sure that KO is done in Buffalo.  Adams likes him and wants him in the organization in some capacity.   Zemgus brings a game that no one else does.   Jost and Krebs are centers and are lightweights in comparison to KO and Z, they will not bring the same game to the lineup.  You are stripping away what little veteran grit we have.    Krebs can act like a pest with 21 and 28 on his wing, they will back him up.   When they leave who will do that?  

If there is one thing the team does not need is more youth.   Without Anderson they average about 23.7 years, by far the youngest team in the league. 

Take 28-19-21 line out of the rotation and we are missing a lot.   They are the only line that plays the body, and they all contribute on the PK.  They may be considered the 4th line but they sometimes get more minutes than the 2nd line, and sometimes more than the 3rd line.  

People underestimate their value when they look only at points scored.  

You also said they need more scoring?   They are 2nd in the league in scoring.  Next year you would expect that Quinn, Peterka, and Cozens will score more just by natural progression.  

There is much more opportunity to improve the defensive game of this team.  That will provide the most benefit.   Get the goals against down.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I would not be so sure that KO is done in Buffalo.  Adams likes him and wants him in the organization in some capacity.   Zemgus brings a game that no one else does.   Jost and Krebs are centers and are lightweights in comparison to KO and Z, they will not bring the same game to the lineup.  You are stripping away what little veteran grit we have.    Krebs can act like  pest with 21 and 28 on his wing, they will back him up.   When they leave who will do that?  

If there is one thing the team does not need is more youth.   Without Anderson they average about 23.7 years, by far the youngest team in the league. 

Take 28-19-21 line out of the rotation and we are missing a lot.   They are the only line that plays the body, and they all contribute on the PK.  They may be considered the 4th line but they routinely get more minutes than the 2nd line, and sometimes more than the 3rd line.  

People underestimate their value when they look only at points scored.  

You also said they need more scoring?   They are 2nd in the league in scoring.  Next year you would expect that Quinn, Peterka, and Cozens will score more just by natural progression.  

There is much more opportunity to improve the defensive game of this team.  That will provide the most benefit.   Get the goals against down.  

The thing about KO is how much for how long and whether he even wants to continue.  Z is going to get re-signed unless he wants to walk.  KA is fully aware this team needs more grit.  My guess is that was a factor in signing Bush last off-season and why the Meier rumors started.  That said, I think he can replace KO, with someone younger and probably cheaper with the same results.

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The thing about KO is how much for how long and whether he even wants to continue.  Z is going to get re-signed unless he wants to walk.  KA is fully aware this team needs more grit.  My guess is that was a factor in signing Bush last off-season and why the Meier rumors started.  That said, I think he can replace KO, with someone younger and probably cheaper with the same results.

Yes, there are questions surrounding both KO and Z.  Money is a factor, term is a factor.  If we lose both and replace then with rookies from within I think we are going to go through another big learning adjustment.  Maybe even a year of less growth in terms of W/L?     How young can we be up front is the key question?  

This year we have 3 rookies (Quinn, Peterka, Power) and 3 sophomores (Muel, Krebs, UPL) in the lineup.  Next year maybe 2 more rookies to go with the 3 sophomores?  That is 8 kids fed into the system in a couple of years.   And maybe we see Johnson at D for a trial next season too?  Without KO and Z and Andy the oldest vets are Skinner and VO.  

We will see how the team holds up in February.  They are IN the playoff race right now and they will see the best from their opponents.  Luckily, we have a core that loves to play hockey and wants to win!   

Exciting times are coming and what KA does between now and next October will be fascinating to see.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by Pimlach

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, there are questions surrounding both KO and Z.  Money is a factor, term is a factor.  If we lose both and replace then with rookies from within I think we are going to go through another big learning adjustment.  Maybe even a year of less growth in terms of W/L?     How young can we be up front is the key question?  

This year we have 3 rookies (Quinn, Peterka, Power) and 3 sophomores (Muel, Krebs, UPL) in the lineup.  Next year maybe 2 more rookies to go with the 3 sophomores?  That is 8 kids fed into the system in a couple of years.   And maybe we see Johnson at D for a trial next season too?  Without KO and Z and Andy the oldest vets are Skinner and VO.  

We will see how the team holds up in February.  They are IN the playoff race right now and they will see the best from their opponents.  Luckily, we have a core that loves to play hockey and wants to win!   

Exciting times are coming and what KA does between now and next October will be fascinating to see.  

The '86 Habs wanted to say 'hi.'  😉

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

The '86 Habs wanted to say 'hi.'  😉

Are you suggesting that Ukko Pekka-Luukkonen or Eric Comrie will become Patrick Roy?  😉

[DarthEbriate]

14 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Are you suggesting that Ukko Pekka-Luukkonen or Eric Comrie will become Patrick Roy?  😉

Nonsense. That's Devon Levi's role.

[RochesterExpat]

9 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

-I’d scrap this. Use VO in a package for a second pair guy (stay at home DMan) to play with Power. Joker moves to third pairing with Lybushkin. 

 

This is my thinking but I am struggling to come up with who you bring on. Who is really available that fits that billing? What team has a Top 4 stay-at-home defenseman that is available?

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

This is my thinking but I am struggling to come up with who you bring on. Who is really available that fits that billing? What team has a Top 4 stay-at-home defenseman that is available?

That’s the $ million question.  Who would part with a Samuelsson level D for Olofsson?  That’s why Joki is in that role and will likely stay there for the foreseeable future, unless we can get a Nick Jensen or someone like him to sign with us this off-season.   

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, RochesterExpat said:

This is my thinking but I am struggling to come up with who you bring on. Who is really available that fits that billing? What team has a Top 4 stay-at-home defenseman that is available?

 

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s the $ million question.  Who would part with a Samuelsson level D for Olofsson?  That’s why Joki is in that role and will likely stay there for the foreseeable future, unless we can get a Nick Jensen or someone like him to sign with us this off-season.   

Yeah I don’t know who you add to that deal from the Sabres. I know we have a ton of 🔥 power up front and I guess the reality is we’d have to give up VO + prospect and maybe a pick. 
 

VO + Peterka + Second Rounder?

[SABRES 0311]

^^^OK so everyone agrees^^^

[GASabresIUFAN]

Has Bryson played himself out of Buffalo for next year?  

How confident are we now the UPL is ever going to be part of the solution going forward?

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Has Bryson played himself out of Buffalo for next year?  

How confident are we now the UPL is ever going to be part of the solution going forward?

1st Q - Out of the conversation for top 6 with everybody healthy?  Absolutely.  Off the roster?  Comes down to whether the team trading the Sabres a legit 3rd pairing guy later this week needs a body coming back.

2nd Q - 50-50.  Which is about double the chance would've given him coming into the season.  His biggest issue is confidence and keeping a clear head after giving up a bad goal.  That is completely correctable.  (But as Lehner has shown, not necessarily for everybody.)  He's for the most part stopped giving up the goals over his shoulder and through the 5 hole, so he is improving.  Getting rebounds under control is the next big thing he needs to fix.  That is something else that should be correctable.  After that, be a little better at reading the play and he'd be a good starter if he can fix all of that.

Hes only 23 which is very young for an NHLer, so he has time on his side to get it figured out.  (WE would like him to figure it out today, but for being an NHLer he has time to figure it out.  And if Comrie can become what they'd hoped he'd be, then even the Sabres have time as Comrie could be the starter and UPL the backup while waiting for Levi.  Interestingly, or not, Comrie is very likely determining on whether UPL ends up in the full LT plans as their need to upgrade him might result in them needing to trade UPL to make the ST goaltending upgrades they need to take the next step next year.)

[GASabresIUFAN]

Both notable deadline trades are under contract for next season (Greenway the next two seasons).

Here is the status quo roster for next year

Skinner TNT Tuch

Mitts Cozens Quinn

JJP Krebs VO (no I don’t like this line either)

???? Jost Greenway  (UFA forwards KO, Z, and Vinnie)

Dahlin Mule

Power Jokiharju

Stillman Lyubushkin 

Bryson Clague

Comrie UPL

Cost: $63,115,237 for 19 players with Jost and Clague RFAs.

 

[Thorner]

Knew you’d have one of these up immediately @GASabresIUFAN

I see Greenway is listed as a LW wherever I look, does he actually play the right? Both sides? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Knew you’d have one of these up immediately @GASabresIUFAN

I see Greenway is listed as a LW wherever I look, does he actually play the right? Both sides? 

He is a left shot LW.  Not sure it matters to DG.  He seems to play guys where he thinks they are needed.  

[Crusader1969]

58 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He is a left shot LW.  Not sure it matters to DG.  He seems to play guys where he thinks they are needed.  

Stilll scares me that Bryson is the 7/8 Dman on the roster.    
Biggest need in the off-season is another Dman who can be a top 4 when required.  
someone like Chychrun perhaps 🤔 

[triumph_communes]

Team has no business signing Okposo again.  Oloffson really needs traded out too. 
 

Plenty of forwards to replace the ranks. Need defenseman and defenseman and defenseman. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by triumph_communes

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Stilll scares me that Bryson is the 7/8 Dman on the roster.    
Biggest need in the off-season is another Dman who can be a top 4 when required.  
someone like Chychrun perhaps 🤔 

Imho, ideally, KA makes over the D completely after the top 3, but that’s unlikely to happen.  If the only change is a better partner for Power, that will make everything better.

However it shouldn’t be the only change.

KA also needs to move on from either Comrie or UPL. To keep both would send the wrong message to the players and the fans. They simply aren’t good enough to backstop a team with serious playoff aspirations.

I can see KA trading VO for D help.

[Night Train]

They have room to add in Vet FA. Bigger, more rugged defensemen or 2. I expect any forwards to be promoted from within. 

What Goalies will be out there is the question. 

[Night Train]

BTW - IS Ryan Johnson finally signing ?  Is he an upgrade or another Bryson/Butcher type than is just holding a spot for someone ? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Night Train said:

BTW - IS Ryan Johnson finally signing ?  Is he an upgrade or another Bryson/Butcher type than is just holding a spot for someone ? 

It has been reported by some credible sources that he intends to sign with the Sabres when Minn's season ends.

Quote

 

Here is some good news guys and gals.  According to the Athletic’s Corey Pronman “I’ve heard Ryan Johnson will probably sign with Buffalo too.”

https://theathletic.com/4213022/2023/02/21/college-chl-european-hockey-free-agents/

This article focuses on College and Euro FAs.  

 

 

[Bob Malooga]

I love what Adams is doing (Greenway doesn't count)...he's doing things the right way finally.

It's the youngest team in the league, they're only going to get bigger, faster, stronger, better as they continue to grow and mature.

This is like what they did when guys like Vanek, Pominville, Roy, etc, were in Rochester...they're just doing it in Buffalo now.

It's going to work, we just need to be patient...or more patient.

[Believer]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:15 AM, Pimlach said:

I would not be so sure that KO is done in Buffalo.  Adams likes him and wants him in the organization in some capacity. 

Agree… KO has slowed this year, and with at least a couple forwards likely to move up, he will have real competition for a roster spot next year, my guess 

He is such a leader… Hope KA offers him an assistant coaching job, here in Buffalo, in  Rochester or in Cincinnati… Wonder if his young family would want to put down temporary roots, though… Think he was building a new home back in MN…