2023-24 Sabres Early Thoughts

[Marvin]

Whatever we do, I want part of training camp and practice next year to include clutching, grabbing, late hits, sucker punches, and diving so that we get used to fighting through that garbage.

[Pimlach]

I know I will be looking forward to next year a lot.  Love that we are in it and that the team is getting a positive experience this season.  

[Crusader1969]

On 3/16/2023 at 10:13 PM, Pimlach said:

I know I will be looking forward to next year a lot.  Love that we are in it and that the team is getting a positive experience this season.  

Hopefully there are lessons being learnt from games like last nights dud

 

[Crusader1969]

It’s amazing how the trade for Samson has the potential to be a HUGE win for the Sabres 

who would have thought? ….  A 7th round goalie and the 32nd overall pick! 

[GASabresIUFAN]

@Crusader1969 and @LGR4GM in the Sabres missing the playoffs spread discussed roster changes this off-season.  They pondered up to 5-8 roster changes for 2023-24.  Crusader thinking 3 max and LGR saying there was 0 chance we'd have 5-8.

I answered with the following but thought my answer was more appropriate here.

It's an interesting question.  How many current players return? There are only 6 FAs, including 4 UFAs ( KO, Z, Anderson and Vinnie) and 2 RFAs (Clague and Jost).  Only 1 player on the current roster is certainly not returning and that is Craig Anderson.  The rest who knows.  In theory, if none of the FAs return that is 6 open roster spots and there is reason to believe that 3-4 may not return (Vinnie, Anderson, KO/Z, and or Clague)

F - Cozens, Tuch, Krebs, Tnt, Skinner, Greenway, and Quinn will be back.  Mitts and JJP are also almost certain to return unless KA is willing to trade one to help another area.  VO is out of favor in general and should be traded.  Greenway is getting either KO or Z's job and they'll probably re-sign Jost. Vinnie is likely going to try his luck elsewhere. (2-3 changes?)

D - Dahlin, Mule, Bush and Power will certainly be back.  Stillman was acquired with term.  He'll also return.  Joki is well-liked and I assume he'll be back unless needed to upgrade Power's partner.  I'd move on from both Clague and Bryson.  (1-2 changes)

G - UPL and Comrie both stink and both should go.  (1-2 changes)

Like it or not 4-5 rookies may vie for roster spots next year in Johnson, Levi, Savoie, Kulich, and Rousek.

There easily is potential for 5-8 roster changes.  Dump Bryson, Clague, Vinnie, Anderson, Comrie, and one of Z or KO and you're there.  Trade VO and your at 7 current players sent packing. 

We actually have had 5 roster changes during the season.  In - UPL, Clague, Stillman, Greenway, and Jost.  Out - Bjork, Asplund, Fitzgerald, and Sheahan.  Comrie is on IR. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Crusader1969]

GA is right, for the entire roster 5-6 changes is possible 

I was thinking more along the lines of starting roster , the reserves could all change over 

[GASabresIUFAN]

25 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

GA is right, for the entire roster 5-6 changes is possible 

I was thinking more along the lines of starting roster , the reserves could all change over 

I think there will be a minimum of 3 starters being changed.  I’m hopeful for a 4th line center upgrade as well.  Depending on how the kids do in camp, they could force someone else out as well.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think there will be a minimum of 3 starters being changed.  I’m hopeful for a 4th line center upgrade as well.  Depending on how the kids do in camp, they could force someone else out as well.

How are you defining starters?  Because there is 1 "starter" that will be replaced and that is Anderson.  Can't see the starting F's being replaced and would be very surprised if Samuelsson got bumped to the 2nd pairing.

Would be shocked if UPL isn't the backup next year.  Am hoping a real #1 is brought in.  And if Levi or UPL outplay him, awesome.

We know Adams realizes the D needs another top 4 piece because he actually made legit effort to bring in Chychrun.  Expect we will definitely see that piece brought in.  Am hoping there is 1 more D-man brought in, (legit top 6 that is, am sure there'll be 2-4 tweeners brought in for Ra-cha-cha) but have no idea whether that'll happen or not.  They might consider Stillman to be that 2nd addition to the top 6 (legit top 6 guy in the 7 slot) that they need.  Hope that's not the case, but it very well could be.

Can't see Hinostroza coming back unless there is simply no interest in him and he decides that if he's going to be an AHLer he'd rather that happen here than elsewhere.  Personally expect somebody to sign him.  He's versatile and has nearly elite speed.  And did we mention he comes cheap too?  Somebody will want that for their 4th line at a minimum.

Still expect Okposo to head back to St. Paul.  And  could very well see Olofsson part of the package to either get a goalie or a 4D should they go the trade route to find that guy.  Which leaves them at 11 or 12 F's from this roster coming back.  Expect another 4C style player brought in as a cheap UFA.  Leaving them either set with their top 13 or leaving 1 job open for Savoie to show up and get his 9 games.

And do believe that will be enough to make them a solid playoff team provided those 1st 2 guys that need to get brought in actually get brought in.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Starter, as in the opening night lineup barring injuries.  Basic the top 12 F, 6D, and 2G

I think you are in general agreement with me

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Mitts Krebs ?????

Greenway ????? KO (or Z if KO walks)

Jost

Dahlin Mule

Power ?????

Jokiharju Lyubushkin

Stillman

??????  UPL

This means trading VO, Comrie, and Bryson (or waiving and then assigning them to Rochester if not claimed).  Not re-sign Vinnie, Girgenson (or KO), and Clague.  Anderson retires.

 

 

[Taro T]

16 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Starter, as in the opening night lineup barring injuries.  Basic the top 12 F, 6D, and 2G

I think you are in general agreement with me

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Mitts Krebs ?????

Greenway ????? KO (or Z if KO walks)

Jost

Dahlin Mule

Power ?????

Jokiharju Lyubushkin

Stillman

??????  UPL

This means trading VO, Comrie, and Bryson (or waiving and then assigning them to Rochester if not claimed).  Not re-sign Vinnie, Girgenson (or KO), and Clague.  Anderson retires.

 

 

Yes, we are close to being on the exact same page. The differences are really can't see them forcing Girgensons out and expect he will be back.  (Yes, he's a UFA, but by "forcing him out" mean can't believe they won't make him a legit offer and also can't see him wanting to play anywhere else.  And after having gone so many years on teams that never sniffed the playoffs can't see him bailing on them now.)

Also can't see them walking away from Clague nor Bryson.  Expect both will be back and will be starting the year in Ra-cha-cha.

Can see them keeping Comrie but waiving him to Ra-cha-cha.  After the nightmare his season turned into can't see anybody but possibly Winnipeg claiming him.  The only way he gets traded is if there is a trade for a starter (Saros please) and the other team wants a backup coming back.

Which even these other items, it's merely nuance in the differences in our positions.

As for Okposo, really see him going back to his roots in Minny.  Whether it be as a player or a coach.

[Gatorman0519]

KA will have to hit some home runs this off-season to consider us a possible playoff team. Lots of holes yet. Im thinking maybe 2025 season we get back. As far as becoming an actual contender it’s not even a discussion right now. We Have a few pieces but not remotely close at least in the next two or three years. 

[Night Train]

 If the team doesn't learn how to play D, nothing will change.  Can Granato teach that ?

Asst. coaches more specialized with the special teams play. Both the PK and PP struggle. Faceoffs need to be won in key moments. 

Let's just dump it all on Levi saving us. That's fair....sigh...

LOTS of work to do. Quit fooling yourself. 

[Flashsabre]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-takeaways-bubble-demko-form-continues-as-goalie-shows-brilliance-vs-kings/

I don’t see why Canucks would want to move him but Demko but he would be my target if available this summer.

I would like to see Peca added to the staff next season. 

More defensive structure has to come from Granato himself.

[Randall Flagg]

We probably should have traded for demko when he was still playing badly. 

[JohnC]

18 hours ago, Taro T said:

Yes, we are close to being on the exact same page. The differences are really can't see them forcing Girgensons out and expect he will be back.  (Yes, he's a UFA, but by "forcing him out" mean can't believe they won't make him a legit offer and also can't see him wanting to play anywhere else.  And after having gone so many years on teams that never sniffed the playoffs can't see him bailing on them now.)

Also can't see them walking away from Clague nor Bryson.  Expect both will be back and will be starting the year in Ra-cha-cha.

Can see them keeping Comrie but waiving him to Ra-cha-cha.  After the nightmare his season turned into can't see anybody but possibly Winnipeg claiming him.  The only way he gets traded is if there is a trade for a starter (Saros please) and the other team wants a backup coming back.

Which even these other items, it's merely nuance in the differences in our positions.

As for Okposo, really see him going back to his roots in Minny.  Whether it be as a player or a coach.

If one reviews your roster and @GASabresIUFANprojections what is apparent is that the bulk of the roster is set. The need to address the blueline and goalie positions are clearly evident. The GM's Chycrun pursuit indicated that recognition. I'm not sure if the GM is willing to expend serious assets to acquire the caliber of goalie that would be a difference maker (such as Saros) for this team? Will there even be that type of goalie/s on the market to deal for? That's an open question for me. But where there will be opportunities on the market this offseason is 4-6 caliber of blueliners that should upgrade that unit. 

Granato and KA have often have repeatedly stated that improvement is going to be centered around the development of the young players that are on the team and in the system. Given that realization, at the minimum buttressing the defensive unit should be doable via trades or free agency, and it shouldn't require shedding an inordinate amount of assets. The goalie issue from an acquisition standpoint is much more of a challenge. I still believe that the GM is going to stay with the players he already has, now including Levi, for the most critical position in the sport. If he does take the more conservative route in addressing that position that will be a potential self-sabotaging gamble. 

[TRIP65]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:53 PM, Thorny said:

So much more value found in severely aiding the team on ice in the next 2 seasons while TT Skinner Tuch and Dahlin are all going off than sitting on an asset we already have an abundance of that likely won’t provide much value in those 2 seasons. I do not care at all that Saros expires in 2 years, the arm-chair GMing has jumped the shark. It’s *really, really ok* to concentrate on the next 2 critical years, I promise you. How many years on this planet does everyone think they get? People just toss out time like it’s *nothing* when it’s the most important asset, sports or otherwise.

Be good in the next 2 years. Have fun. Sign Saros along the way, or move on to Levi after in stride.

Or horde prospects and posts links to prospect pool rankings detailing a future that as of yet hasn’t ever arrived 

It’s a prospect. In the hypothetical it’s a prospect for a no-bones-about-it starter among the league’s best when it’s BY FAR our biggest need and people be like “nope” 

Think Savoie and Kulich makes team in 2023. Trade Peterka or Krebs First. Already know what they can do.

If you can get Saros without trading Top Line, Cozens, Quinn, Dahlin, Power, Levi, Kulich and Savoie then do it.

[TRIP65]

On 3/10/2023 at 11:27 PM, French Collection said:

I would much prefer Saros but Demko could be a fallback idea. He would come cheaper after a down year. Canucks are weird, may take less than his value if the package intrigues them.

Give up Peterka and UPL

[North Buffalo]

7 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

Give up Peterka and UPL

Doont want what you guys are smokin.  Not gonna happen.

[TRIP65]

On 3/11/2023 at 12:45 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Fixing the defense is the top priority.  All 3 goaltenders need to go, but no goalie can succeed here (except Ullmark), without fixing the D and the forwards commitment to back checking.  

 KA has needed to add veteran leadership to the D for two years and the need is even greater now.  If the vet doesn’t partner with Power, than getting a partner for Power is the top priority after that.   

We have needed Defense Veteran Leadership for awhile, two Veteran Leaders for line 2 + 3 and a Goalie. Okoposo and Girg have been here long enough and Culture hasn't changed enough. Like Tuch, Tage, Dahlin as possible Captains and/or Combination.

These needs were there the beginning of the year, now they are a Must or your breeding a LOSING CULTURE again!

Saros could help develop Levi, similar size and play. Play them both and get rid of the 3 we have now.

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

Think Savoie and Kulich makes team in 2023. Trade Peterka or Krebs First. Already know what they can do.

If you can get Saros without trading Top Line, Cozens, Quinn, Dahlin, Power, Levi, Kulich and Savoie then do it.

You have no idea what JJPeterka can do. He's ***** 20yr old rookie

[TRIP65]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:41 PM, Thorny said:

Like others have said, I think it’s by choice. We are scoring among the very top of the league’s teams - we aren’t among the league’s best teams. Other teams don’t have to sacrifice so much D to put up the offence they do. Coaching has seemed to actively prioritize enhancing our goal scoring even to the detriment of play the other way. I have no idea why, others can field answers, but I do think it’s happening 

this is why I kept pointing to the goal differential, which is closer to mid pack, when others kept saying our F group was set: some of the raw offence is in effect a mirage in the sense we need to play an unsustainable system to achieve it. The differential is a better overall indicator: we are much improved, but still ~ middle, roster wise. Internal growth, as well as outside additions, will be what we need to climb further up the ranks 

Problem we have know is the style needs 3 lines producing goals. Our first line has been bad for 10 games or so collectively. Not enough goals through that time produced, hence the record. This group needed to learn Defense. Would have helped the Goaltending. Instead we may have hurt Peterka development and maybe Krebs. Quinn seems to be fine but growth has been slow. This is on Granto!

[Goldseatsaud]

You don’t trade JJ wtf

[TRIP65]

On 3/11/2023 at 3:56 PM, Thorny said:

Yes. They are. You don’t just isolate one stat and call it a day - this is exactly the point of my post. 

the exact same people who are coming up with the stat that tells you Comrie is facing more high danger shots than others, break down the same numbers to tell you Comrie is saving WELL below expected *on those chances*. And on the chances that aren’t high danger. You don’t get to cherry pick one stat. 

it’s both. It’s definitively both. No, a good goalie won’t make them instant contenders on his own. No one is saying this, though - maybe we can bury that particular straw man 

Sabres need both when Dahlin and Power lean so heavy with offense. Who really is your LOCK DOWN defensiveman?

[TRIP65]

On 3/11/2023 at 4:33 PM, Pimlach said:

Ehhh, not really.   Don't get one as old and as broken down as Gorges was.   Think Lydman, think Teppo.   

Key attributes:  good size, strong, mobile, accurate first pass, heady, smart, and calm - a player that can help Power and Dahlin with his know-how and can lead by example.   A player that can let them create and not get burned.  

No more Bryson and Clague getting banged up and throwing the puck around.  We should not have to watch that much longer, we have assets and cap room. 

 

We need great One Dimensional defensiveman that can go with Dahlin and Power. Put Sam and Jok together than, be a good third pair. Stillman and Lyb your backups.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, TRIP65 said:

Sabres need both when Dahlin and Power lean so heavy with offense. Who really is your LOCK DOWN defensiveman?

Power is actually very good defensively. He's only going to get better too. 

Just now, TRIP65 said:

We need great One Dimensional defensiveman that can go with Dahlin and Power. Put Sam and Jok together than, be a good third pair. Stillman and Lyb your backups.

That player doesn't exist. Closest thing is someone like Weeger.