mjd1001 Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 16 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: 8 x $8. That's as high as I would go. The Tage deal would buy only 2 UFA years. I think. I would want him signed for that extra year. I agree that is the max I want to see. The key to this team going forward is to have players signed to market-value-or-below deals. When you are near the cap and one of the top 10 teams, over-paying a player is poisen to your chances. However, with that said, if you offer 8x$8m and won't go higher....and he says no to that....then what do you do?
JohnC Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Because he is not a greedy bugger and he understands that some players are better than him and will command more money. I just think he is a team first guy. Like Tage. The issue isn't being greedy or not. It's about what is your market value? There will be contracts for players in his echelon of production. He will be getting the going rate. Most people agree in hindsight that Tage signed a contract that was less than his value on ice. Cozens's agent will not be adequately doing his job in representing his client if he accepts less than value contract like it was given to Tage. 1 2 1
DarthEbriate Posted January 22, 2023 Author Report Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, SabresBillsFan said: He should get no more then Tuch’s deal Under double Tuch's deal by cap hit, sure. If GM Sheevyn offers Cozens a 7x$4.75M, then Cozens' agent should immediately counter with a 2-year bridge and a trade demand to a team willing sign an extension 8x $8.5M+. GMs would line up for it. And if the Sabres play hardball, then look to sign an RFA offer sheet ASAP. 1
Archie Lee Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 Hughes went 1st overall in 2019 and he is in year one of an 8x8. Boldy went 12th that year and starts a 7x7 next year. Splitting the difference at 7.5 x 7 or 8 years seems reasonable. 2
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 29 minutes ago, mjd1001 said: I agree that is the max I want to see. The key to this team going forward is to have players signed to market-value-or-below deals. When you are near the cap and one of the top 10 teams, over-paying a player is poisen to your chances. However, with that said, if you offer 8x$8m and won't go higher....and he says no to that....then what do you do? He is RFA so the team has more leverage. He is a good kid and won't sit out. I do not want to bridge. That lead to trouble with Samson. If he refuses the 8 x $8 (which I do not think he or his agent would do) if I am KA I hold my nose and offer a 3 year bridge at Dahlin $ ... 3 x $6. He is still a RFA at the end of that contract, but by then we'll likely be talking 8 x $10+ for him. I really think that Cozens is not a *me first* kind of guy and will be reasonable in this.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said: Under double Tuch's deal by cap hit, sure. If GM Sheevyn offers Cozens a 7x$4.75M, then Cozens' agent should immediately counter with a 2-year bridge and a trade demand to a team willing sign an extension 8x $8.5M+. GMs would line up for it. And if the Sabres play hardball, then look to sign an RFA offer sheet ASAP. @SabresBillsFan must have been a jolly joker when he suggested the Tuch contract. There is no possible way that happens and the Sabres would be foolish to start there. The starting point for the Sabres should be the Tage deal + a bit for an 8th year. 1
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 31 minutes ago, JohnC said: The issue isn't being greedy or not. It's about what is your market value? There will be contracts for players in his echelon of production. He will be getting the going rate. Most people agree in hindsight that Tage signed a contract that was less than his value on ice. Cozens's agent will not be adequately doing his job in representing his client if he accepts less than value contract like it was given to Tage. My market value as a CPA is $150+ / hour. My standard rates now are $139 / hour. Many clients do not pay my standard rate and never mind my market rate. The point is when is enough enough ?? Cozens will not be stupid about this nor will his agent. He understands the big picture. He will not want to squeeze every last nickle out of the Sabres. He will be paid extremely well. He will be in line for a big payday again in 7 or 8 years when he will still not yet be 30 years old. Tage will not be hurting. Mule will not be hurting. They get it. Dylan will too, IMO. 3
DarthEbriate Posted January 22, 2023 Author Report Posted January 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: @SabresBillsFan must have been a jolly joker when he suggested the Tuch contract. There is no possible way that happens and the Sabres would be foolish to start there. The starting point for the Sabres should be the Tage deal + a bit for an 8th year. I think you're right for joking, or that maybe meant Tage and not Tuch, but don't want to assume. Instead, needed to call out that you don't insult Cozens. He's exactly who you want to build around for the next 10 years. Agreed: Tage is the base. Tage is the Malkin, Cozens is the (not as good offensively, but all situations player) Crosby in a top 2 center setup. But anyone who thinks that Cozens isn't going to get paid is deluding themselves. He can be as good as kid as can be and he can even take a discount and he's going to get paid. 1
Thorner Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 7 hours ago, Carmel Corn said: IMHO - the Matt Boldy contract is the best comparable for a young NHL player like Cozens. 7 years at $49MM is where I hope they end up. Cozens has 33% more points this season, and plays centre with a better 2 way game. And signing a contract slightly later. Boldy would be the absolute floor 1 1
Thorner Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 7 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Because he is not a greedy bugger and he understands that some players are better than him and will command more money. I just think he is a team first guy. Like Tage. Players are not greedy for asking for their true worth. This is so bogus: is the team paying Thompson what he’s worth? I’m sure they are happy with him being way underpaid and won’t be looking to back pay him on his next deal just because. The team operates as a business. They paid Tage early because they wanted to pay him as little as possible. And we expect the *employees* to willingly take a cut to protect the business? This isn’t just incorrect I’d argue it’s wrong and a poor precedent to set for what we deem a “team first” player is 2 1
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Players are not greedy for asking for their true worth. This is so bogus: is the team paying Thompson what he’s worth? I’m sure they are happy with him being way underpaid and won’t be looking to back pay him on his next deal just because. The team operates as a business. They paid Tage early because they wanted to pay him as little as possible. And we expect the *employees* to willingly take a cut to protect the business? This isn’t just incorrect I’d argue it’s wrong and a poor precedent to set for what we deem a “team first” player is Welcome to the *red X club*, my friend. 1
matter2003 Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 It's going to be a lot. By that point he likely will be a regular point a game player and potentially our Captain.
Thorner Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Welcome to the *red X club*, my friend. Frankly if I didn’t get one here from you I’d be perturbed - there’s no logic in your stance: because it’s not inherently balanced. You can’t argue the players should be paid not on their worth, but what’s “fair” for both sides, when we already have players like Thompson offsetting that balance. It can’t be, “fair deals only, according to me...unless it’s a break for the team then well done KA”. It’s absurd
matter2003 Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 6 hours ago, French Collection said: What is Cozens’ ceiling? He may become more valuable than Tage in a few years. He won’t score as many goals but he may become the Sabres 2 way physical force, key faceoff guy and inspirational leader while providing more than a point per game. This could be a great 1A 1B scenario. 25-30 goals 85-95 points?
Thorner Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, matter2003 said: 25-30 goals 85-95 points? If scoring keeps on this trend league wide, why not 100? He won’t be an annual 100 point player, but as an outlier “ceiling” season, I can see it Pacing for 77 points at 21, 100 in a few years could be possible as ceiling Edited January 22, 2023 by Thorny
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Frankly if I didn’t get one here from you I’d be perturbed - there’s no logic in your stance: because it’s not inherently balanced. You can’t argue the players should be paid not on their worth, but what’s “fair” for both sides, when we already have players like Thompson offsetting that balance. It can’t be, “fair deals only, according to me...unless it’s a break for the team then well done KA”. It’s absurd All I am saying is that both sides know what Dylan or any other player is worth based on market value and that both will come to reasonable agreement that is fair for both. Dylan will be paid a lot of money. The Sabres will gladly pay it. My feeling is that Dylan will agree to a pay scale that is at the lower end of the market range. 8 x $8 for blazes sake !!
Thorner Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: All I am saying is that both sides know what Dylan or any other player is worth based on market value and that both will come to reasonable agreement that is fair for both. Dylan will be paid a lot of money. The Sabres will gladly pay it. My feeling is that Dylan will agree to a pay scale that is at the lower end of the market range. 8 x $8 for blazes sake !! Fair based on market value? Sure I can buy that. Not saying Dylan is going to tighten the thumbscrews on KA just that he’s not going to give a freaking team discount at *21*. The Crosbys and the Tom Bradys are the guys that take discounts. Old farts who’ve already made bank who are legacy chasing. Not young pups establishing their nest egg. Does Tage take a mulligan given the choice? I think we all know the answer to that.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Thorny said: Fair based on market value? Sure I can buy that. Not saying Dylan is going to tighten the thumbscrews on KA just that he’s not going to give a freaking team discount at *21*. The Crosbys and the Tom Bradys are the guys that take discounts. Old farts who’ve already made bank who are legacy chasing. Not young pups establishing their nest egg. Does Tage take a mulligan given the choice? I think we all know the answer to that. Crosby has always given a home team discount. He was getting paid handsomely, but understood what ot took to win cups. He was not interested at all in cusps. Am I right @PASabreFan ?? 2
LGR4GM Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Crosby has always given a home team discount. He was getting paid handsomely, but understood what ot took to win cups. He was not interested at all in cusps. Am I right @PASabreFan ?? 8.7 mill was the highest salary in the league at one point. 1
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: 8.7 mill was the highest salary in the league at one point. Yes, but it wasn't when he signed his second contract at the AAV and he didn't have to sign for 12 years.
LGR4GM Posted January 22, 2023 Report Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Yes, but it wasn't when he signed his second contract at the AAV and he didn't have to sign for 12 years. So you're disproving your own point. 1
JohnC Posted January 23, 2023 Report Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: My market value as a CPA is $150+ / hour. My standard rates now are $139 / hour. Many clients do not pay my standard rate and never mind my market rate. The point is when is enough enough ?? Cozens will not be stupid about this nor will his agent. He understands the big picture. He will not want to squeeze every last nickle out of the Sabres. He will be paid extremely well. He will be in line for a big payday again in 7 or 8 years when he will still not yet be 30 years old. Tage will not be hurting. Mule will not be hurting. They get it. Dylan will too, IMO. It won't be an issue of squeezing the organization for every penny that he can get. His agent will negotiate a contract that is a fair-market contract. It's not necessarily a precise figure but it will fall within a price and length range that other players have gotten with similar production and age range. As revenues go up for franchises, so do salaries. It's a business for players as it is for owners. Just because Tage may have gotten (in hindsight) a lesser value contract doesn't mean that Cozens and his agent will be satisfied with a below market contract. And make no mistake about it that the contract that Tage signed is more favorable to the organization than it is to the player. I'm not criticizing Tage for signing the contract that he negotiated. If he was satisfied with the offer, then good for him. However, that doesn't mean that Cozens or Dahlin have to sign below market contracts when their turn comes up to negotiate a deal. 1
Doohicksie Posted January 23, 2023 Report Posted January 23, 2023 11 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: Because he is not a greedy bugger and he understands that some players are better than him and will command more money. I just think he is a team first guy. Like Tage. ...to a point. There's also a player like Dahlin not getting too greedy.
Doohicksie Posted January 23, 2023 Report Posted January 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: I really think that Cozens is not a *me first* kind of guy and will be reasonable in this. I'm not worried about Dylan. I'm worried about his agent. 2
Taro T Posted January 23, 2023 Report Posted January 23, 2023 3 hours ago, LGR4GM said: 8.7 mill was the highest salary in the league at one point. True. But he was one of a VERY few that could realistically have gotten a "max" deal & he didn't come particularly close to that. He was the best player in the league & by a fairly wide margin. He left money on the table. 1
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