GDT: Ducks @ Sabres, 1/21/2023, 12:30pm, MSG 📺 WGR📻

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, the idea of trading VO is officially nuts.  He's going to get at least 35 this year and next year if he stays healthy.

When @GASabresIUFANappears in his court case, his wise counsel is going to recommend that he argues that it was temporary insanity that made him such a zealot in arguing to trade this Swede. We all know that lawyers are challenging clients to work with. 🤡

Edited January 22, 2023 by JohnC

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, Eleven said:

They don't have the cap room for Okposo next year unless he takes league minimum, and maybe not even then.  They also need to turn over the C to someone younger.

Arguably, Okposo has been the best captain in this franchise's history. He has been a stabilizing presence (even when not the captain) when this was a dysfunctional organization. He has been a factor in this franchise's transition from a bottom feeding team to a competitive team.  He's also a recognized leader on and off the ice by his teammates and organization. He's the type of player and person that you can't measure his value by the numbers. 

[bg17]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Arguably, Okposo has been the best captain in this franchise's history. He has been a stabilizing presence (even when not the captain) when this was a dysfunctional organization. He has been a factor in this franchise's transition from a bottom feeding team to a competitive team.  He's also a recognized leader on and off the ice by his teammates and organization. He's the type of player and person that you can't measure his value by the numbers. 

KO is clearly an asset at this point merely based on intangibles. I don’t think that will be sufficient to keep him in the lineup next year. His job as a mentor has been completed successfully. Next year leadership should be handed over to Dahlin and Cozens and KO’s place taken by someone younger, cheaper and faster. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

19 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When @GASabresIUFANappears in his court case, his wise counsel is going to recommend that he argues that it was temporary insanity that made him such a zealot in arguing to trade this Swede. We all know that lawyers are challenging clients to work with. 🤡

I was joking about trading VO.  That's why there was a little smiley face next to comment.  People on this board have been trying to bum rush Mitts and VO out of town all season.  I was again pointing out how silly it was as I have been defending both all season. 

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, bg17 said:

KO is clearly an asset at this point merely based on intangibles. I don’t think that will be sufficient to keep him in the lineup next year. His job as a mentor has been completed successfully. Next year leadership should be handed over to Dahlin and Cozens and KO’s place taken by someone younger, cheaper and faster. 

Kyle does the little things that don’t get noticed.  Like yesterday’s back check in our defensive zone, he pins his man to the boards so another player can take the puck and breakout.   He is one of the few that plays the body correctly and at the right times.  Zemgus is the other.  We have a lot of players that barely touch the opponent in the course of a game.  When they are gone they will be missed.  

[nfreeman]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

He's such a gentle giant. Guy just doesn't want to use his size. Uses his reach, but not his size. Don't know if this will ever change. 

I'd say TT uses his size as an integral part of his game in protecting the puck while making plays and in waging puck battles along the boards, both of which he is very good at, but not in playing a hitting, physical game, which is I think what you are alluding to. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I was joking about trading VO.  That's why there was a little smiley face next to comment.  People on this board have been trying to bum rush Mitts and VO out of town all season.  I was again pointing out how silly it was as I have been defending both all season. 

I'm aware that you were joking about VO in your recent post. And I'm aware that you have been a stalwart defender of Mitts (along with me). But come on now you have often advocated for him to be dealt. There is nothing wrong with having that opinion. I have been more wrong than right with many of my opinions. That's why we post here. 

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, bg17 said:

KO is clearly an asset at this point merely based on intangibles. I don’t think that will be sufficient to keep him in the lineup next year. His job as a mentor has been completed successfully. Next year leadership should be handed over to Dahlin and Cozens and KO’s place taken by someone younger, cheaper and faster. 

Okposo has been our most consistent (not best)  player on this team. His level of play rarely wavers. If you doubt his value, then ask Krebs and the coaches how important he is to this team.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm aware that you were joking about VO in your recent post. And I'm aware that you have been a stalwart defender of Mitts (along with me). But come on now you have often advocated for him to be dealt. There is nothing wrong with having that opinion. I have been more wrong than right with many of my opinions. That's why we post here. 

Most of the scenarios I have with VO getting traded is based on his age and someone coming up from the system like a Kulich or Savoie to replace that skill set.  That doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.  Therefore trading VO is off the table unless someone makes KA an offer he can't refuse like TB trade for Hagel.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Most of the scenarios I have with VO getting traded is based on his age and someone coming up from the system like a Kulich or Savoie to replace that skill set.  That doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.  Therefore trading VO is off the table unless someone makes KA an offer he can't refuse like TB trade for Hagel.

As you noted, the prospects you mentioned are at least a couple of years away from the NHL. Would other teams value a sniper such as Olof? Certainly. But he also has value on this team. One of the deficiencies that the GM/KA recognized when he took over was that the scoring was not adequately distributed. It was too one star based (Jack). The GM made it a priority not to become too dependent on a player, or even a line. Olof is a sniper who also raises the value of Mitts because he is more of a passer. My point is that VO offers a lot of production and value to the current team he plays with. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As you noted, the prospects you mentioned are at least a couple of years away from the NHL. Would other teams value a sniper such as Olof? Certainly. But he also has value on this team. One of the deficiencies that the GM/KA recognized when he took over was that the scoring was not adequately distributed. It was too one star based (Jack). The GM made it a priority not to become too dependent on a player, or even a line. Olof is a sniper who also raises the value of Mitts because he is more of a passer. My point is that VO offers a lot of production and value to the current team he plays with. 

I agree and I doubt he is being moved at the deadline, but if we fall out of contention and someone like the Devils offers up 2 1st rd picks wouldn't KA have to listen?  Tampa gave Chicago 2 1sts, Taylor Raddysh and Boris Katchouk for Hagel.  Hagel had a cheap contract when acquired similar to Tnt's.

Sadly I do think that next season will be both Casey and VO's last season with the Sabres.  With Krebs, Jost, Cozens, Power, UPL and Dahlin needing to be re-signed over the next 2 offseasons, Mitts and VO's 7.5 mill will need to be reallocated elsewhere.  

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree and I doubt he is being moved at the deadline, but if we fall out of contention and someone like the Devils offers up 2 1st rd picks wouldn't KA have to listen?  Tampa gave Chicago 2 1sts, Taylor Raddysh and Boris Katchouk for Hagel.  Hagel had a cheap contract when acquired similar to Tnt's.

Sadly I do think that next season will be both Casey and VO's last season with the Sabres.  With Krebs, Jost, Cozens, Power, UPL and Dahlin needing to be re-signed over the next 2 offseasons, Mitts and VO's 7.5 mill will need to be reallocated elsewhere.  

I agree with your general proposition that as this team gets better and its young players' contract timeline needs to be faced, it is going to be a challenge to deal with the cap puzzle. I'm not bothered by this challenge because it is a sign that this team has accumulated enough talent to warrant contending with the cap ceiling. That's a good situation to be in. Already, you can see what our core will be: (Dahlin, Power, Tage, Quinn, Cozens). 

Our GM will listen to all offers, reasonable or not. That's his job. I just think that right now the strategy of the GM for dealing with his roster is primarily to stay within the system, and only make secondary type deals like the Jost and Lyubush deals where he gave up no assets to acquire these two contributing players. You have to agree that KA has been candid about what his approach is going to be in the rebuild he took on i.e mostly internal development. 

Regarding the Devils offering two 1st round picks for a player such as Oloff or whomever, I just don't see it happening. Sometimes general trade discussions that happen at an early period can eventually materialize way down the road.  

[...]

6 hours ago, tom webster said:

They have plenty of cap room to sign Okposo although I believe he will move back home to Minnesota and play for well below market rate. Cap space “might” become an issue two years down the road but next year they will be well under cap unless they make huge splash.

Okposo's kids are "growing up" here, WNY is their home, and the team has been exceptionally supportive of the guy through some tough times. My feeling is that it's 50/50 whether he stays or leaves even when he retires. If the organization has room for him somewhere and offer him a gig, his kids will be very unhappy if he turns that down. I know a lot of people opt to "go home" when they are done with their thing but kids complicate the decision.

[tom webster]

25 minutes ago, ... said:

Okposo's kids are "growing up" here, WNY is their home, and the team has been exceptionally supportive of the guy through some tough times. My feeling is that it's 50/50 whether he stays or leaves even when he retires. If the organization has room for him somewhere and offer him a gig, his kids will be very unhappy if he turns that down. I know a lot of people opt to "go home" when they are done with their thing but kids complicate the decision.

His kids are 6 and 8. He has built his home or is in process of building his home in Minnesota and has talked about the importance of giving his children stability once they start going to school and making friends.

[Pimlach]

12 minutes ago, tom webster said:

His kids are 6 and 8. He has built his home or is in process of building his home in Minnesota and has talked about the importance of giving his children stability once they start going to school and making friends.

It will be an interesting decision for him to make, because I have heard  the Sabres would like to retain him in some capacity after he retires from playing.   If it is a scouting type of job he could live anywhere.  If it is something else then maybe not.  He gets a huge amount of respect not just in the locker room but all the way up the chain in Sabres organization.  
 

 

[tom webster]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It will be an interesting decision for him to make, because I have heard  the Sabres would like to retain him in some capacity after he retires from playing.   If it is a scouting type of job he could live anywhere.  If it is something else then maybe not.  He gets a huge amount of respect not just in the locker room but all the way up the chain in Sabres organization.  
 

 

I believe him, Miller and maybe a few others will have some role in the organization moving forward.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, bg17 said:

KO is clearly an asset at this point merely based on intangibles. I don’t think that will be sufficient to keep him in the lineup next year. His job as a mentor has been completed successfully. Next year leadership should be handed over to Dahlin and Cozens and KO’s place taken by someone younger, cheaper and faster. 

I wholeheartedly disagree with your take that his contributions are more associated with his intangibles than it is with his actual performance. KO's goal scoring is not going to be very impressive. But his on ice play is a factor in this team's success. He's the most consistent player on this team whose hard and grinding style of play contributes to wins. At the end of close games he is going to be on the ice. He is not going to be one of the players that the coach leaves on the bench because he is a responsible and reliable player. 

Winning teams are composed of a variety of parts and roles. You are making a mistake if you undervalue the contributions that players such as Okposo and Girgs add to this team.   

[bg17]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I wholeheartedly disagree with your take that his contributions are more associated with his intangibles than it is with his actual performance. KO's goal scoring is not going to be very impressive. But his on ice play is a factor in this team's success. He's the most consistent player on this team whose hard and grinding style of play contributes to wins. At the end of close games he is going to be on the ice. He is not going to be one of the players that the coach leaves on the bench because he is a responsible and reliable player. 

Winning teams are composed of a variety of parts and roles. You are making a mistake if you undervalue the contributions that players such as Okposo and Girgs add to this team.   

I think grinders can be replaced as needed (not at will, but as targeted) and that his contributions on the ice will be less next year than they are this year. Would rather next year have a grinder that is younger/faster/cheaper. 

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, bg17 said:

I think grinders can be replaced as needed (not at will, but as targeted) and that his contributions on the ice will be less next year than they are this year. Would rather next year have a grinder that is younger/faster/cheaper. 

But Okposo isn't a grinder. He's a middle 6 power forward, the team leader, and one of the few players with Dad-strength. When the team came out flat against (I forget the opponent) HCDG dropped Tuch off the top line and inserted Okposo. That was the spark for a comeback. He's the replacement for Tuch on the top line. Last season, Okposo was on PP2 and in the top 6 and netted 20 goals. He could do that again this season if asked to. He doesn't have the speed to run-and-gun with JJP-Cozens-Quinn, but that line would arguably be better all around with OK on it (Quinn-Cozens-Okposo), just with more of a possession style. Instead, he's asked to be a defensive stalwart and build Krebs up into a player. The Sabres don't have a winger in the pipeline ready to be anything close to Okposo (maybe Nadeau or Bloom but they're years away). Look for him to sign something $3-3.75 for next season, and maybe 2-3.5 if they offer 2 years.

 

[bg17]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

But Okposo isn't a grinder. He's a middle 6 power forward, the team leader, and one of the few players with Dad-strength. When the team came out flat against (I forget the opponent) HCDG dropped Tuch off the top line and inserted Okposo. That was the spark for a comeback. He's the replacement for Tuch on the top line. Last season, Okposo was on PP2 and in the top 6 and netted 20 goals. He could do that again this season if asked to. He doesn't have the speed to run-and-gun with JJP-Cozens-Quinn, but that line would arguably be better all around with OK on it (Quinn-Cozens-Okposo), just with more of a possession style. Instead, he's asked to be a defensive stalwart and build Krebs up into a player. The Sabres don't have a winger in the pipeline ready to be anything close to Okposo (maybe Nadeau or Bloom but they're years away). Look for him to sign something $3-3.75 for next season, and maybe 2-3.5 if they offer 2 years.

 

I acknowledge the hat trick he had and then see 4 goals in his other 37 games. Even with his intangibles that’s not enough for a middle six power forward and by this time next year I expect to see him bringing less on the ice. 
 

Love KO. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by bg17

[Eleven]

8 hours ago, JohnC said:

Arguably, Okposo has been the best captain in this franchise's history. He has been a stabilizing presence (even when not the captain) when this was a dysfunctional organization. He has been a factor in this franchise's transition from a bottom feeding team to a competitive team.  He's also a recognized leader on and off the ice by his teammates and organization. He's the type of player and person that you can't measure his value by the numbers. 

He still won't be here in two years, and, in my mind, after this coming summer.  They have a LOT of salaries to pay.

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, Eleven said:

He still won't be here in two years, and, in my mind, after this coming summer.  They have a LOT of salaries to pay.

In two years,he probably will decide to retire. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

He still won't be here in two years, and, in my mind, after this coming summer.  They have a LOT of salaries to pay.

Not next year they don’t

They will have about $30-34 million to re-sign or replace Cozens, Jost, Girgensons, Okposo, Asplund and Clague. 

It’s the following summer where it gets interesting with Power, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Jokiharju, Krebs and UPL as RFAs and Olofsson, Lyubushkin and Comrie UFAs.

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not next year they don’t

They will have about $30-34 million to re-sign or replace Cozens, Jost, Girgensons, Okposo, Asplund and Clague. 

It’s the following summer where it gets interesting with Power, Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Jokiharju, Krebs and UPL as RFAs and Olofsson, Lyubushkin and Comrie UFAs.

They'll definitely get Dahlin inked this summer, so they'll know what they're up against.  Hoping they can get Power inked this summer too, but expecting he'll follow Cozens path and wait until the offseason where he'd become an RFA to ink a deal.

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I'd say TT uses his size as an integral part of his game in protecting the puck while making plays and in waging puck battles along the boards, both of which he is very good at, but not in playing a hitting, physical game, which is I think what you are alluding to. 

Only in part. I'm not talking about Tage starting to run people into the boards (although he could do that once in a while for sure), what I mean more is just going right at defenders and muscling your way to the goal front, screening the goalie as an immovable object, adding some of Tuch's game if you like. Or if you want to go back in time a little more Dave Andreychuk.