Eichel thrown under the bus by Vegas HC Bruce Cassidy

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, pastajoe said:

The league wanted to punish Buffalo for purposely making roster moves to tank, and Edmonton just had a new arena built and needed to ensure they had an attraction to fill it.

So what are we thinking here: the most likely culprit was a grand, dastardly conspiracy by the league to screw the Sabres, they cheated them in the lottery, risking the fact that if that was exposed, the league would be in shambles? 

Or the fact there was a 75% chance the balls weren’t going to bounce our way 

This isn’t even Occam’s razor, it’s like...occam’s Rob Ray

[Doohicksie]

4 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

McDavid.  First 3 seasons:  1.22 PPG, last 3:  1.72ppg

McKinnon.  First 3:  0.70PPG, last 3:  1.39ppg

Matthews. First 3:  0.97ppg, last 3:  1.32ppg

Eichel. First 3:  0.85ppg, last 3:  0.88ppg

Tuch.  First 3:  0.32 ppg, last 3:  0.80 ppg

I bring this up because I was thinking of the impact injuries have had on Eichel's game.  Tuch has a significant injury history too and it hasn't kept him from developing and improving.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Quint said:

I know it's just a technical point but they didn't burn everything to the ground to get Eichel but to get McDavid. They lost the gamble and got the wrong guy and the franchise depended on it. Murray's face at the draft said it all.

I can't agree with this.  Everyone knew (except Thorny, evidently) that they had 1 chance in 5 to get McD.  TP would never have signed off on those odds.  The plan had to be Eichel, and if it ended up being McD, that would be a bonus.

 

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We A) already know that there’s no wisdom in betting everything on one guy, we don’t need to wait to see any data on that, to answer @nfreeman 
 

and B) if the aim of the tank was specifically McDavid, and achieving him was the only form of success, that was a poor mathematical bet from the start and therefore an even more awful strategy, from conception. The only logic that ever even arguably existed in the idea of “tanking” was the concept of “McEichel”, which was guaranteed by finishing last. This is what many fans bought in for. 

But as mentioned, torpedoing the franchise to get ANY one guy I think has proven to be folly considering you drastically up the degree of difficultly in surrounding said player with a complementary team. 

Our tank was dumb for at least 1 significant reason, and for as many as 3 reasons, the inclusion of which makes it exponentially stupider when combined. 

1) torching the ground and salting the earth for ANY player is bad. We know they inarguably did this. They also may have:

2) if they ventured into that thinking ONLY McDavid would be that guy, and they not only torched everything, but did it for A 25% shot, its a laughably bad strategy at the point 

3) if they did it for McDavid (or even either) and did so under the prism of thinking ONE PLAYER makes the team, not just that they needed to burn it all down to get him, but that they consciously undersold the work they thought they had to do after, around said player (which I’d argue is exactly the case), it pushes the whole thing over to *chef’s kiss* all-time bad. 

Which, was sort of par for the course for at least a decade 

I agree with just about all of this, with the critical exception that it was a 20% chance, not 25% (although that makes your underlying argument stronger anyway).  The NHL changed the odds the year before the Eichel tank, which made it an even stupider plan.

[Norcal]

43 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Fixed it for ya

Yeah I always felt that way. Something never felt quite right there.

McDavid knew it too. 

[Thorner]

Just now, nfreeman said:

I can't agree with this.  Everyone knew (except Thorny, evidently) that they had 1 chance in 5 to get McD.  TP would never have signed off on those odds.  The plan had to be Eichel, and if it ended up being McD, that would be a bonus.

 

I agree with just about all of this, with the critical exception that it was a 20% chance, not 25% (although that makes your underlying argument stronger anyway).  The NHL changed the odds the year before the Eichel tank, which made it an even stupider plan.

Ya I couldn’t remember which it was and couldn’t be bothered to look it up. the “better“ odds still made my argument anyways so went with that and if wrong, like you said, my point is even stronger 

thanks for the correction 

Just now, Norcal said:

Yeah I always felt that way. Something never felt quite right there.

McDavid knew it too. 

If I start a poll about whether there really was a conspiracy to “get” the Sabres... I’m going to be really disappointed in the results, aren’t I 

[Norcal]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya I couldn’t remember which it was and couldn’t be bothered to look it up. the “better“ odds still made my argument anyways so went with that and if wrong, like you said, my point is even stronger 

thanks for the correction 

If I start a poll about whether there really was a conspiracy to “get” the Sabres... I’m going to be really disappointed in the results, aren’t I 

Probably

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Norcal said:

Probably

Alright. No problem, I’ll just work that into my argument, then: 

I take back what I said about the tank being dumb for potentially 3 significant reasons: it’s actually 4. It’s the first 3 combined with the fact that, should even everything go to plan with such a terrible strategy, and the balls bounce your way, which they did, they still must have been aware of the fact that Bettman could, on a whim, step in and say, “HELL no! Not on my watch!” Before laughing maniacally and retreating to his fortress of evil. Making the whole strategy even more dicey. 

[Norcal]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Alright. No problem, I’ll just work that into my argument, then: 

I take back what I said about the tank being dumb for potentially 3 significant reasons: it’s actually 4. It’s the first 3 combined with the fact that, should even everything go to plan with such a terrible strategy, and the balls bounce your way, which they did, they still must have been aware of the fact that Bettman could, on a whim, step in and say, “HELL no! Not on my watch!” Before laughing maniacally and retreating to his fortress of evil. Making the whole strategy even more dicey. 

The whole team was built to receive McDavid, failing that, the plan fell to pieces. 

Terry still holds a grudge against Bettman for it, blames him for the teams recent run of futility. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Norcal said:

The whole team was built to receive McDavid, failing that, the plan fell to pieces. 

Terry still holds a grudge against Bettman for it, blames him for the teams recent run of futility. 

Source?!

This would be objectively hilarious and look awfully poorly on Terry 

Probably would be one of the most damning things I’ve ever heard about him or any owner re: aptitude running a team 

[Norcal]

35 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Source?!

This would be objectively hilarious and look awfully poorly on Terry 

Probably would be one of the most damning things I’ve ever heard about him or any owner re: aptitude running a team 

I'm kidding. I thought we were riffing 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I'm kidding. I thought we were riffing 

I got lost somewhere along the way apparently 😆

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I once thought that Eichel was going to be the next McKinnon.  Over the early part of his career Eichel was outscoring McKinnon.  Instead he has turned into Taylor Hall 2.0.  

 

My first reaction but this might be the best comparison. 

[matter2003]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

So what are we thinking here: the most likely culprit was a grand, dastardly conspiracy by the league to screw the Sabres, they cheated them in the lottery, risking the fact that if that was exposed, the league would be in shambles? 

Or the fact there was a 75% chance the balls weren’t going to bounce our way 

This isn’t even Occam’s razor, it’s like...occam’s Rob Ray

Lmao...the lengths some people will go to come up with crazy conspiracy theories is unreal...

Maybe he was the one who came up with QAnon too

[Broken Ankles]

Always up for a good conspiracy theory, however don’t derail my Friday dose of schadenfreude.  The work week is winding down, Bill Maher is back tonight, oh and this wonderful nugget…..

 

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, Quint said:

Murray's face at the draft said it all.

So did McDavid's at the lottery.

[SABRES 0311]

13 hours ago, matter2003 said:

 

 

Eichel getting trashed by his own coach and I'm here for it!!

[klos1963]

He's got 5 points in 6 games after missing almost a month with injury. Coach needs to lay off.

[pastajoe]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

So what are we thinking here: the most likely culprit was a grand, dastardly conspiracy by the league to screw the Sabres, they cheated them in the lottery, risking the fact that if that was exposed, the league would be in shambles? 

Or the fact there was a 75% chance the balls weren’t going to bounce our way 

This isn’t even Occam’s razor, it’s like...occam’s Rob Ray

The Oilers had even less of a chance. Where there’s a will there’s a way, especially when the selections are made behind closed doors. The NBA found a way to get Patrick Ewing to the Knicks. 

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Here is something interesting about Eichel...has he worked to get BETTER over the course of his career?

Look at the other players drafted at the top of the draft that at the time, were considered generational or near generational. 4 guys came to mind when I thought about guys taken within a year or two of him:  Eichel, McDavid, Matthews, and McKinnon.

Now, on one hand what I am going to say may be influenced by his injuries...but again, even if you take out the first month or two afte he came back from his injury the numbers wouldn't change much.  So, these "close to generational players", how has their production changed from the first 3 seasons they played until the last 3 seasons?

McDavid.  First 3 seasons:  1.22 PPG, last 3:  1.72ppg

McKinnon.  First 3:  0.70PPG, last 3:  1.39ppg

Matthews. First 3:  0.97ppg, last 3:  1.32ppg

Eichel. First 3:  0.85ppg, last 3:  0.88ppg

There may be some factors, the injury that impact those numbers, sure. But the one thing it shows is that of those 'big 4', Eichel is the only one that hasn't taken major steps up in production from his first few years to the 'prime' production years.

Long term injuries causing wear-and-tear? Or just lack of pushing himself like elite players to get better? I'm guessing its a bit of both.

Ok, interesting numbers.  Eichel has always been known for intense workouts in the gym so some of the work he puts in there might be better spent on ice.  Or he really is one notch below the others.  Almost two behind McDavid.   That matches my eye test.  

[Andrew Amerk]

2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

He's got 5 points in 6 games after missing almost a month with injury. Coach needs to lay off.

Sounds like the quote from the coach means it’s about more than just putting up points. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Sounds like the quote from the coach means it’s about more than just putting up points. 

But come on, we've never seen Jack coast on a shift, simply wandering aimlessly around until he can cherry pick an offensive opportunity. Never seen that... never. 

[Buffalonill]

 

[Stoner]

Not for nothing, Owen Krepps is a great name.

[Scottysabres]

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

Do you really think the league would have preferred McDavid in *Edmonton* over Buffalo?

Those of is in *Winnipeg* refer to Edmonton as the middle of freaking nowhere. Think about this. 

I was referring to the "draft lottery" itself. The NHL draft worked fine without it. The NFL still does.

17 hours ago, Norcal said:

Yeah I always felt that way. Something never felt quite right there.

McDavid knew it too. 

I'll never forget McDavids reaction when they announced Edmonton.....priceless, just priceless 🤣 

[MDFan]

11 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Sounds like the quote from the coach means it’s about more than just putting up points. 

It certainly is, and if he is expecting more than that consistently out of Eichel, he will be disappointed.