Sabres Trade Deadline 2023 Discussion

[Brawndo]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Doesn't matter. Adams thinks this defense is good enough. It's ridiculous.

He doesn’t 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

He doesn’t 

To quote Chester Nimitz, "the world wonders"

[CTJoe]

we need an above average, or even and average goalie

[Scottysabres]

30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

To quote Chester Nimitz, "the world wonders"

Actually, Nimitz never uttered those words, it was msg crypto padding, but unfortunately, the radioman on the New Jersey, Halsey's flag ship at the time, added the padding to the msg, which in turn caused Halsey to lose his mind when he read it lol

The irony of the entire Battle of Leyte Gulf / Battle of Samar affair was that the msgs meaning, while unintentionally decrypted incorrectly, was spot on. Halsey made what could have been, and should have been, a fatal error to the invasion of the Philippines. Thanks be to God for 1 Cmdr Evans of the USS Johnston and the other Taffy 3 escorts. A lot of lives were saved that day in spite of Halsey's errors.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Everyone keeps telling me that Adams has a plan.  Just be patient.  

So what’s the D plan?  We have a D core, three excellent young players who were are currently playing into the ground because behind them is one decent player, Joki, and 4 piles of steaming horse manure.  

The pipeline has one player, Johnson, who is at least one more season away assuming he signs a contract.  Who knows if he’ll actually be an upgrade.  The rest are a years away.  

His big (size wise) UFA signing is positionally awful and he just acquired a younger worse similar player with term.  His two “puck movers” are so bad the coach fears playing them and for good reason.

With crazy deadline deals going on throughout the NHL it’s doubtful that KA will find real help at a price we can afford.  However without help now or in the off-season in both defense and in goal, this team is never going to be competitive with the elite teams.  

All 8 of our D are either signed or under team control.  Given KA current approach this sadly could again be our D group next year.  Feel better about the future? If the plan for next year is the status quo, KA has failed the players, the organization and the fans.

Aren’t you tired of the team having to score 6 goals to win? Aren’t you tired of the missed assignments on D, the bad clearing passes and the goalies missing shots they see? 

I know I’ve beaten this horse for months, but when there is no improvement year over year isn’t time to change course and try a different approach?

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Pimlach]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Everyone keeps telling me that Adams has a plan.  Just be patient.  

So what’s the D plan?  We have a D core, three excellent young players who were are currently playing into the ground because behind them is one decent player, Joki, and 4 piles of steaming horse manure.  

The pipeline has one player, Johnson, who is at least one more season away assuming he signs a contract.  Who knows if he’ll actually be an upgrade.  The rest are a years away.  

His big (size wise) UFA signing is positionally awful and he just acquired a younger worse similar player with term.  His two “puck movers” are so bad the coach fears playing them and for good reason.

With crazy deadline deals going on throughout the NHL it’s doubtful that KA will find real help at a price we can afford.  However without help now or in the off-season in both defense and in goal, this team is never going to be competitive with the elite teams.  

All 8 of our D are either signed or under team control.  Given KA current approach this sadly could again be our D group next year.  Feel better about the future? If the plan for next year is the status quo, KA has failed the players, the organization and the fans.

Aren’t you tired of the team having to score 6 goals to win? Aren’t you tired of the missed assignments on D, the bad clearing passes and the goalies missing shots they see? 

I know I’ve beaten this horse for months, but when there is no improvement year over year isn’t time to change course and try a different approach?

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Actually, Nimitz never uttered those words, it was msg crypto padding, but unfortunately, the radioman on the New Jersey, Halsey's flag ship at the time, added the padding to the msg, which in turn caused Halsey to lose his mind when he read it lol

The irony of the entire Battle of Leyte Gulf / Battle of Samar affair was that the msgs meaning, while unintentionally decrypted incorrectly, was spot on. Halsey made what could have been, and should have been, a fatal error to the invasion of the Philippines. Thanks be to God for 1 Cmdr Evans of the USS Johnston and the other Taffy 3 escorts. A lot of lives were saved that day in spite of Halsey's errors.

Yes I know. Oddly enough the reason I know is interesting. In the Hunt for Red October, Captain Ramius says Halsey acted stupidly and chastises Ryan for coming to wrong conclusions about him. When I was younger and first saw the movie I didn't understand because of from a standard US history perspective, Halsey gets lots of credit from WWII. Anyways that got me over the years to study the Battle off Samar and Taffy 3. It is insane that Hasley spent the entire morning hearing report after report of a major Japanese attack and refused to release any of his ships even though at the time, his fleet was so massively superior to the Japanese fleet he faced (which he knew) that his carriers alone could have handled it. Halsey had 5 fleet carriers and 5 escort carrier plus all of their escorts. Why he needed all 6 battleships and the 8 cruisers is unknown. Also also Halsey had dispatched about 50% of his force a few days before the battle to refit and rearm even though he had intelligence reports of the Japanese preparing to attack. Dude really did act stupidly. 

But back to the original point. Yes, you are 100% correct Nimitz did not actually utter the words even though they are attributed to him. 

[ExWNYer]

 

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes I know. Oddly enough the reason I know is interesting. In the Hunt for Red October, Captain Ramius says Halsey acted stupidly and chastises Ryan for coming to wrong conclusions about him. When I was younger and first saw the movie I didn't understand because of from a standard US history perspective, Halsey gets lots of credit from WWII. Anyways that got me over the years to study the Battle off Samar and Taffy 3. It is insane that Hasley spent the entire morning hearing report after report of a major Japanese attack and refused to release any of his ships even though at the time, his fleet was so massively superior to the Japanese fleet he faced (which he knew) that his carriers alone could have handled it. Halsey had 5 fleet carriers and 5 escort carrier plus all of their escorts. Why he needed all 6 battleships and the 8 cruisers is unknown. Also also Halsey had dispatched about 50% of his force a few days before the battle to refit and rearm even though he had intelligence reports of the Japanese preparing to attack. Dude really did act stupidly. 

But back to the original point. Yes, you are 100% correct Nimitz did not actually utter the words even though they are attributed to him. 

The Battle of Leyte Gulf was my command classes MCF scenario. We spent 2 months studying every detail for the MCF training event. There were many aspects of the actual historical event that were poor decisions by Halsey at the tactical level. There were equally large errors at the JCS strategy level, staring with but not limited to a split Naval command structure. That contributed greatly to the near disaster.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

The Battle of Leyte Gulf was my command classes MCF scenario. We spent 2 months studying every detail for the MCF training event. There were many aspects of the actual historical event that were poor decisions by Halsey at the tactical level. There were equally large errors at the JCS strategy level, staring with but not limited to a split Naval command structure. That contributed greatly to the near disaster.

We need a movie covering Taffy 3. We have multiple Pearl Harbor movies and an okay Midway movie (considering we have actual footage from Midway is crazy) but as far as I know, no movie for Taffy 3. 

The thing I have learned from WWII and both the Tunisia Campaign and the Battle of the Pacific is that logistics tend to win wars. Battle of Britain is another example where by the time it ends in October, the British are producing more planes then they are losing by significant margins. 

[Scottysabres]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We need a movie covering Taffy 3. We have multiple Pearl Harbor movies and an okay Midway movie (considering we have actual footage from Midway is crazy) but as far as I know, no movie for Taffy 3. 

The thing I have learned from WWII and both the Tunisia Campaign and the Battle of the Pacific is that logistics tend to win wars. Battle of Britain is another example where by the time it ends in October, the British are producing more planes then they are losing by significant margins. 

Agreed completely. It was a time of learning to be sure. Not a conversation to be drawn out in this thread, but it does my soul good to see other citizens such as yourself LG who recognize and take the time to analyze the history, the lessons taught in those moments, if learned, are valued assets to the future.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Scottysabres

[GASabresIUFAN]

...and now back to the regularly scheduled topic.

Greenway is still out there and we could certainly use his size and physical game.  I'd rather have him in the lineup over Vinnie.  He's also locked up for two more years, was coached by DG in the USNTDP, and should fit well with our group.  

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tradecentre/tsn-hockey-s-trade-bait-list-1.203546

Here is TSN's updated list of available players.  Also, CBJ maybe trying to move Quick to a playoff contender.  I'm going to throw a D name out there we haven't discussed, but might make a good 3rd pair complement to Bush and is an RFA at the season's end.  What about Dante Fabbro from Nashville?  Any interest?  I don't know enough about his advanced stats, but when I've seen him play I think he's a decent player with good puck skills.

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

...and now back to the regularly scheduled topic.

Greenway is still out there and we could certainly use his fix and physical game.  I'd rather have him in the lineup over Vinnie.  He's also locked up for two more years, was coached by DG in the USNTDP, and should fit well with our group.  

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tradecentre/tsn-hockey-s-trade-bait-list-1.203546

Here is TSN's updated list of available players.  Also, CBJ maybe trying to move Quick to a playoff contender.  I'm going to throw a D name out there we haven't discussed, but might make a good 3rd pair complement to Bush and is an RFA at the season's end.  What about Dante Fabbro from Nashville?  Any interest?  I don't know enough about his advanced stats, but when I've seen him play I think he's a decent player with good puck skills.

 

I’ve mentioned Fabbro before.

It doesn’t look like he has progressed in Nashville. He was an offense first Dman in the NCAA and Junior A. He’s been behind Josi, Ekholm, Ellis forever and now Carrier has seemed to pass him.

A change of scenery might help, not sure if he is top 4, but you never know.

[John Tucker]

Kinda upsetting that Toronto only gave up a 3rd rounder for Schenn... Had we had a 3rd round pick this year, that would've been a no brainer.  Could've maybe given up next year's pick or something that included one of our 2nd rounders and have them throw in a late round pick.   Dunno...  with all the other crazy deals, a 3rd rounder for Schenn seems a big win for the Leafs.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, French Collection said:

I’ve mentioned Fabbro before.

It doesn’t look like he has progressed in Nashville. He was an offense first Dman in the NCAA and Junior A. He’s been behind Josi, Ekholm, Ellis forever and now Carrier has seemed to pass him.

A change of scenery might help, not sure if he is top 4, but you never know.

Don't need him in the top 4.  We need him or someone like him to be an upgrade over Bryson, Clague, and Stillman

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Either way (including all the dmen posts) we need 2 defensive defenseman that can clear the crease and be responsible. If stillman can do that, awesome, we still need another. Even if we had Dahlin, he would not have helped much all the open Cbus players right in front of the goalie!!! The bottom 2 dman right now are terrible defensively! They need to go.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Either way (including all the dmen posts) we need 2 defensive defenseman that can clear the crease and be responsible. If stillman can do that, awesome, we still need another. Even if we had Dahlin, he would not have helped much all the open Cbus players right in front of the goalie!!! The bottom 2 dman right now are terrible defensively! They need to go.

I mean, that's just not true. Dahlin is very physical in front of his own net and in the corners. He might be more physical than Samuelsson actually. 

14 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Either way (including all the dmen posts) we need 2 defensive defenseman that can clear the crease and be responsible. If stillman can do that, awesome, we still need another. Even if we had Dahlin, he would not have helped much all the open Cbus players right in front of the goalie!!! The bottom 2 dman right now are terrible defensively! They need to go.

This is 100% true and we need to seriously be looking to move on from Clague and Bryson if we want to be serious about playoffs. 

[French Collection]

22 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Either way (including all the dmen posts) we need 2 defensive defenseman that can clear the crease and be responsible. If stillman can do that, awesome, we still need another. Even if we had Dahlin, he would not have helped much all the open Cbus players right in front of the goalie!!! The bottom 2 dman right now are terrible defensively! They need to go.

Dahlin would’ve helped because he would have the puck and they would be chasing him or backchecking.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

Dahlin would’ve helped because he would have the puck and they would be chasing him or backchecking.

Dahlin would not have helped.... any forechecking team shuts us down. Dahlin included. Would he have helped offensively? Absolutely. We have sucked against heavy forechecking teams for years if not the last decade. This team is no different. They just cannot seem to figure it out. Instead of skating harder and faster they get it in their head and slow down and allow themselves to get bogged down. 

But either way, we can agree to disagree. I would have loved Dahlin back though

[French Collection]

3 minutes ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Dahlin would not have helped.... any forechecking team shuts us down. Dahlin included. Would he have helped offensively? Absolutely. We have sucked against heavy forechecking teams for years if not the last decade. This team is no different. They just cannot seem to figure it out. Instead of skating harder and faster they get it in their head and slow down and allow themselves to get bogged down. 

But either way, we can agree to disagree. I would have loved Dahlin back though

I disagree with a Norris level Dman not being able to help. He is fast enough to get there first, slippery enough to outmaneuver the forecheck, big enough to stand up to forecheckers and dangerous enough to make them think twice about what will happen.

He also takes minutes away from all of those who can’t do it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Anyone have the players on Chad's list from ExpectedBuffalo?

[Hank]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

...and now back to the regularly scheduled topic.

Greenway is still out there and we could certainly use his size and physical game.  I'd rather have him in the lineup over Vinnie.  He's also locked up for two more years, was coached by DG in the USNTDP, and should fit well with our group.  

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/tradecentre/tsn-hockey-s-trade-bait-list-1.203546

Here is TSN's updated list of available players.  Also, CBJ maybe trying to move Quick to a playoff contender.  I'm going to throw a D name out there we haven't discussed, but might make a good 3rd pair complement to Bush and is an RFA at the season's end.  What about Dante Fabbro from Nashville?  Any interest?  I don't know enough about his advanced stats, but when I've seen him play I think he's a decent player with good puck skills.

 

No. Absolutely not. No interest at all. 

[Contempt]

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He doesn’t 

I need to see some proof of that other than Stillman.

[Pimlach]

Ok Gents, I am going out now to play 18 holes.  After that a few beers and a burger.  I'll be back in 6 hours to read about the great trade Adams made to help the team right now, while not hurting the future.  Can't wait.  

 

 

 

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Ok Gents, I am going out now to play 18 holes.  After that a few beers and a burger.  I'll be back in 6 hours to read about the great trade Adams made to help the team right now, while not hurting the future.  Can't wait.  

 

 

 

Enjoy your round, keep it in the short grass.

I am at least 6 weeks from hitting the links.