Sabres Trade Deadline 2023 Discussion

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4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It would also be a signal to the fans... that the organization back to competing for championships even if more development is needed.

This is it right here. He'd be doing something linear and traditional, something a certain segment of the fanbase can understand.

All the things that have been done to this roster thus far have put the team ahead of schedule, thereby inviting the aforementioned certain segment of the fanbase to discharge their demons.

 

 

[Buffalonill]

36 minutes ago, bunomatic said:

I sometimes pass the bargain bin in Walmart and man are there deals to be had there.

 Nothing wrong with saving 50 cents on donuts

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is this a surprise? Over last two years look who he has brought in; Anderson, Subban, Dell, Comrie, Lyubushkin, Sheahan, Hayden, Pilut, Clague, Vinnie, Pysyk, Jankowski, Wolanin, Caggiula, Jost and Butcher.  Not exactly a list of all-stars.  Most were vet minimum signings (or nearly so) waiver claims or a vet someone paid us to take (Butcher).  

If he makes a trade for guys like Jensen or Greenway, it will be his biggest moves since he cleared the old core out.

It would also be a signal to the fans, coaches and players that the organization back to competing for championships even if more development is needed.

Beware of Pyrrhic victories. 

[Buffalonill]

52 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

 

 

[triumph_communes]

Stay out if these prices stay high. 
 

Arizona really put themselves in a pickle scratching Chych if nobody is biting on their astronomical ask. Puts more pressure on them to deal him on the deadline.  If he goes it feels like it’ll be a last minute deal. 
 

I hope we have a reasonable offer for Chych and a backup defenseman deal lined up for the final hour if Arizona doesn’t budge. 

[Contempt]

7 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Stay out if these prices stay high. 
 

Arizona really put themselves in a pickle scratching Chych if nobody is biting on their astronomical ask. Puts more pressure on them to deal him on the deadline.  If he goes it feels like it’ll be a last minute deal. 
 

I hope we have a reasonable offer for Chych and a backup defenseman deal lined up for the final hour if Arizona doesn’t budge. 

You make the deal for your other defenseman now so you have him in hand when you are dealing with AZ. Strengthens your bargaining position 

[triumph_communes]

1 minute ago, Contempt said:

You make the deal for your other defenseman now so you have him in hand when you are dealing with AZ. Strengthens your bargaining position 

Do you spend a second on Jensen if you get Chych?  I dont think we should be sending any roster defenseman back to Az in a trade. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by triumph_communes

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Beware of Pyrrhic victories. 

I don’t think spending a 2nd on Schenn/Jensen and a 4th on Greenway would devastate our development plan in the slightest, especially since Greenway is under contract, and the assets could be recouped by utilizing the cap space to help Western teams get their players.

Also last I looked setting a winner standard is part of the development curve as well.

and no, I didn’t have to look that up.  

Spending what TB has recently on marginal players is a different matter.  

Edited February 27, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Radar]

2 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Do you spend a second on Jensen if you get Chych?  I dont think we should be sending any roster defenseman back to Az in a trade. 

Not one of our top four but after that???

[kas23]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

One thing that doesn't get a ton of play around here is that the 3.4 GAA is as much by design as it is roster construction.

Don Granato's Sabres are built to win games 5-4, not 2-1.

I'm not absolving the team of its need to improve, just pointing out that any cracks on the blueline are magnified by mediocre goaltending, inexperience throughout the roster and a coaching staff that is always urging the players to attack.

One of the cures will hopefully be experience, but that will take time. I'm not sure if you can "fix" the goals against short-term without a corresponding drop in scoring, shy of making a significant upgrade in goal.

When I see Bryson at a +/- of -18, I say there’s a weak link that can be improved. We replace him with a sound defensive vet, I don’t see how that could possibly disrupt the number of goals we score. After all, there are many more goals scored by the opponent than us while Bryson is on the ice. Getting Bryson off would help our forward immensely. 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I don’t think spending a 2nd on Schenn/Jensen and a 4th on Greenway would devastate our development plan in the slightest, especially since Greenway is under contract, and the assets could be recouped by utilizing the cap space to help Western teams get their players.

Also last I looked setting a winner standard is part of the development curve as well.

and no, I didn’t have to look that up.  

Spending what TB has recently on marginal players is a different matter.  

You assume these are the prices though. 

[kas23]

9 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Do you spend a second on Jensen if you get Chych?  I dont think we should be sending any roster defenseman back to Az in a trade. 

Bryson please

[Contempt]

11 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Do you spend a second on Jensen if you get Chych?  I dont think we should be sending any roster defenseman back to Az in a trade. 

Yes, I think we need 2 defensemen anyway.

I'll send them Bryson, Clague, or Lyubushkin if they really need a body. I'd prefer to send them the rights to Johnson though.

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You assume these are the prices though. 

No way Schenn fetches a two. If he would he'd have been dealt already. He's a 4th at best.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You assume these are the prices though. 

I was reading some articles in Minn and given the year he is having, his contract and their cap situation, the authors expect something like a middle level pick or prospect in return. The comparison was the Jost for Sturm trade.

I think both Van and Wash are asking more than a second right now for both players, but obviously they aren’t getting it.  I except prices to start to fall.  The Western race is about over and I expect Wash and Ott to throw in the towel soon.  If Niederreiter is only worth a 2nd in 2024 how much are 30+ D worth?

[Contempt]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I was reading some articles in Minn and given the year he is having, his contract and their cap situation, the authors expect something like a middle level pick or prospect in return. The comparison was the Jost for Sturm trade.

I think both Van and Wash are asking more than a second right now for both players, but obviously they aren’t getting it.  I except prices to start to fall.  The Western race is about over and I expect Wash and Ott to throw in the towel soon.  If Niederreiter is only worth a 2nd in 2024 how much are 30+ D worth?

It would be hilarious if we picked up Jost and Greenway for basically nothing and made them both into useful players. Maybe we can get them to send us Foligno too.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Contempt

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, kas23 said:

When I see Bryson at a +/- of -18, I say there’s a weak link that can be improved. We replace him with a sound defensive vet, I don’t see how that could possibly disrupt the number of goals we score. After all, there are many more goals scored by the opponent than us while Bryson is on the ice. Getting Bryson off would help our forward immensely. 

While I agree with your point, it has to be pointed out that 12 of those minuses were put up in those few weeks when Mule and Joki were out. 

That number shows he’s a terrible top 4 defenceman. As a 6/7 he’s certainly upgradable. But bringing in a better 6/7 isn’t going to make a huge difference in our goals against.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Scottysabres said:

Ya, what's Pysyk doing these days? Maybe they can swing him in for a 5/6 spot on D, and bring in John Scott for player interview photo-bombs to up the entertainment venue. By Georgia, I think your on to something here GA.

Pysyk is signed with the Red Wings but had a season-ending injury in training camp. Maybe an Achilles? I'd have to look it up.

[Brawndo]

 

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

I can't read an Ohio printed newspaper, for fear of getting toxic waste on me, and that's just from the words printed, there's also concern of being physically contaminated by the paper from Ohio.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Scottysabres

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, French Collection said:

The desire to make a move increases as other teams make them. 

I keep reminding myself only one team wins the Cup while a dozen of them make moves and add that ‘missing’ piece. The deal that pops into my mind is Giroux last year. They added a veteran star to a Presidents Cup team and fizzled. There are many examples of these types of deals every year.

I get where you're going with any rentals being failures if the only success criteria is a Cup win. Sometimes the criteria is making the playoffs or solidifying a lineup. I believe Giroux was an excellent add for them in the "solidify the lineup" sense.

The Panthers fizzled in the playoffs against God Mode Vasilevskiy, but then, every Eastern team to face Tampa has met that same end in the last 3 years. But Giroux was an excellent pickup for them. 16-4 record with him in the lineup to close the year -- their points per game percentage went up with him in the lineup. 23 points in 18 regular season games. Another 8 points in the playoffs. Again, up until Tampa. It wasn't just Giroux that disappeared.

[French Collection]

8 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I get where you're going with any rentals being failures if the only success criteria is a Cup win. Sometimes the criteria is making the playoffs or solidifying a lineup. I believe Giroux was an excellent add for them in the "solidify the lineup" sense.

The Panthers fizzled in the playoffs against God Mode Vasilevskiy, but then, every Eastern team to face Tampa has met that same end in the last 3 years. But Giroux was an excellent pickup for them. 16-4 record with him in the lineup to close the year -- their points per game percentage went up with him in the lineup. 23 points in 18 regular season games. Another 8 points in the playoffs. Again, up until Tampa. It wasn't just Giroux that disappeared.

It was a good add but they only got 23 regular season and 10 playoff games out of him for Tippett and a 1st.

Tampa is a tough opponent but they got swept and it looks like they may not recover.

I may want Buffalo to get a rental at some point but not now. I find they fizzle out more than put teams over the top.

[Weave]

I’m not too worried about keeping up with the teams that have added so far.  But as soon as teams we are fighting with for a playoff spot start adding…..

[DarthEbriate]

8 minutes ago, French Collection said:

It was a good add but they only got 23 regular season and 10 playoff games out of him for Tippett and a 1st.

Tampa is a tough opponent but they got swept and it looks like they may not recover.

I may want Buffalo to get a rental at some point but not now. I find they fizzle out more than put teams over the top.

I think with this season it's a matter of what is over the top for Buffalo. I'm happy to rent a defender if over the top means making the playoffs. But I'm not parting with a 1st or 2nd because I don't think there's a legitimate shot at the semis or ECF. So... no BUF 3rd. What am I able to get for a 4th? That's a 3rd pairing person you expect 12-16 minutes out of. Instead of the Jensens and Schenns and Gavrikovs whose GMs are dead-set on hiking up the price for, it's more Justin Braun or... eeek... Nathan Beaulieu level. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I wrote up thread that this is exactly the excuse KA would say when he didn’t do anything.   

 Except the status quo isn’t working on 2/3 of the team.  When you allow 3.4 goals a game and haven’t improved year over year despite adding Power, a full season of Samuelsson, adding Lyubushkin , and adding Comrie something has to change.  

Despite KO’s comments to the contrary,the players understand when changes are made for injury or ineffective play and they welcome additions at the deadline to bolster their playoff chances.  Remember they play to win.  

KA will be selective in who he brings in.  A forward like Greenway who has played for Donnie in the USNTDP should work in the locker room just fine.  Adding solid Cup winning veteran D like Schenn or Jensen would command instant respect in the locker room.  Both moved would be welcome with open arms.

 

I'm sure you are aware that I have been arguing for a long time, as you have, that the blueline needs additions. On that issue you and I are in accord. I'm not against adding another forward. But based on the numerous times KA has commented about the team and his philosophy about putting together a roster, he has made it abundantly clear that he prefers to work within the organization than rely on outside help. The elevation of Hinostroza from the AHL is an illustration of that.  I'm expressing my view on what I believe he will do because of his often expressed feelings on building a team. It's evident that based on everything he has done so far that he is determined to adhere to the script he set when he took over. As the trade deadline approaches a number of teams have made moves. As of yet, the Sabres are not one of them. We shall see. 

@dudacek has made a persuasive point about the Sabre roster construction and coaching philosophy as to why there is an imbalance between the defensive metrics relative to the offensive metrics. It's by design. 

[DarthEbriate]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

I’m not too worried about keeping up with the teams that have added so far.  But as soon as teams we are fighting with for a playoff spot start adding…..

Ideally, a team like WSH sells now and bottoms out, so you eliminate competition or pick them over for a Jensen if so inclined.