GDT: Sabres @ Blackhawks, 1/17/23, 8:30 pm, ESPN+ and MSG

[Goldseatsaud]

2 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Lost another 2 goal lead. Coaching disaster. 

Versus the lowly blackhawks

[Goldseatsaud]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

What a ridiculously bad hockey game. Terrible hockey on both sides. Them I get, but the Sabres? They quit on the season too? The worst low event boring hockey game I've seen this year. 

So sick of listening to Rob Ray apologizing for the Sabres. "A lot of good things in this game" name ONE. 

Dan gave me one chuckle though. "vintage Quinn" lol, like you can have "vintage" from a rookie. Too funny. 

This was Eichel era bad hockey. Complete waste of time. 

Rob ever say something negative 

[inkman]

Game sucked but I feel like many people forget what this teams expectations were for the season. Everyone knew coming in that they were several pieces short of being a good team.  Then they won some games in electrifying fashion and now most people are incredulous as to how the Sabres can lose these games.  
 

I got your answer. This team was never that good.  They are still missing several pieces they need to get over the hump.  The kids are still learning NHL hockey, zone coverage and defensively responsibilities.  This team is almost exactly where they were predicted to be.  On the fringe of the playoffs, most likely in the outside looking in.   

[Weave]

17 minutes ago, inkman said:

Game sucked but I feel like many people forget what this teams expectations were for the season. Everyone knew coming in that they were several pieces short of being a good team.  Then they won some games in electrifying fashion and now most people are incredulous as to how the Sabres can lose these games.  
 

I got your answer. This team was never that good.  They are still missing several pieces they need to get over the hump.  The kids are still learning NHL hockey, zone coverage and defensively responsibilities.  This team is almost exactly where they were predicted to be.  On the fringe of the playoffs, most likely in the outside looking in.   

Define fringe.

I thought about this a bit this morning.  Would all y’all be satisfied if the team finished about the same as how it finished the final 1/3 of last season?  And if so, why?  Why would we be OK with this team essentially not improving over the last 25 or so games from last year?

The concern I continue to have is, learning how to adapt your game to win is every bit as much a part of player development as the other stuff coach seems to be emphasizing.  I’m concerned that the team is doing a disservice to player development by not changing gameplans to react to the change in the game as the season progresses.

Someone somewhere mentioned we are the Leafs South.  Maybe a poor mans version, but yeah, that seems accurate right about now.

[dudacek]

Season isnt fading because good teams are buckling down and getting serious.

It’s fading because the Sabres have come up lame against bad teams.They played good enough to win against the 2 best teams in their recent stretch. Those games can and will go either way.

But Philly, Florida and now Chicago were there for the taking.

Blame it on the maturation process if you want, but it’s something they need to overcome.

[Pimlach]

40 minutes ago, inkman said:

Game sucked but I feel like many people forget what this teams expectations were for the season. Everyone knew coming in that they were several pieces short of being a good team.  Then they won some games in electrifying fashion and now most people are incredulous as to how the Sabres can lose these games.  
 

I got your answer. This team was never that good.  They are still missing several pieces they need to get over the hump.  The kids are still learning NHL hockey, zone coverage and defensively responsibilities.  This team is almost exactly where they were predicted to be.  On the fringe of the playoffs, most likely in the outside looking in.   

Did they ever publicly state their expectations and goals?  

The frustration is they will be off of the fringe of the playoffs and out of the race much sooner than we thought.  The games are already getting boring again. 

They play down to the competition when they play a lower level team (Ottawa, Philly, Chicago). They are not good at home either, which hurts any efforts to build their fan base. 

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Game sucked but I feel like many people forget what this teams expectations were for the season. Everyone knew coming in that they were several pieces short of being a good team.  Then they won some games in electrifying fashion and now most people are incredulous as to how the Sabres can lose these games.  
 

I got your answer. This team was never that good.  They are still missing several pieces they need to get over the hump.  The kids are still learning NHL hockey, zone coverage and defensively responsibilities.  This team is almost exactly where they were predicted to be.  On the fringe of the playoffs, most likely in the outside looking in.   

That's true but they've also exceeded those expectations and are in a true hunt for the playoffs. I can't just go back to the " They weren't even supposed to be here" when they gave me hope that they're a year early at least not for me.

[inkman]

8 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

That's true but they've also exceeded those expectations and are in a true hunt for the playoffs. I can't just go back to the " They weren't even supposed to be here" when they gave me hope that they're a year early at least not for me.

This is where my expectation that the Sabres will lose every game comes in handy.  Can’t get let down if losing is expected. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by inkman

[WhenWillItEnd66]

What a crap effort. Losing 5 of 6??? They play their minds out in Nashville and lay serious eggs in the rest. I do not want to hear about what their expectations were supposed to be... They are on the cusp, so better than expectations. This is on coach and players. Coaches need to adjust their play to free up Tage again. The GM should be active to look for the piece that this teams needs. The players need to get off their ass and show that they give a *****, cause they really look horrible and not attached to the game. They are slow, sloppy, non energetic. The excuse that a playoff battle was not in their expectations is total BS. The excuse that they are playing above their heads is also BS! 

[LGR4GM]

26 minutes ago, NJhopelessSabresfan66 said:

What a crap effort. Losing 5 of 6??? They play their minds out in Nashville and lay serious eggs in the rest. I do not want to hear about what their expectations were supposed to be... They are on the cusp, so better than expectations. This is on coach and players. Coaches need to adjust their play to free up Tage again. The GM should be active to look for the piece that this teams needs. The players need to get off their ass and show that they give a *****, cause they really look horrible and not attached to the game. They are slow, sloppy, non energetic. The excuse that a playoff battle was not in their expectations is total BS. The excuse that they are playing above their heads is also BS! 

What's also bs is this. You are suggesting the GM is not being active in trying to add the pieces we need. That isn't how being the GM works. 

1 hour ago, inkman said:

I got your answer. This team was never that good.  They are still missing several pieces they need to get over the hump.  The kids are still learning NHL hockey, zone coverage and defensively responsibilities.  This team is almost exactly where they were predicted to be.  On the fringe of the playoffs, most likely in the outside looking in.   

Basically yeah. 

I am bemused by the ppl who are now posting in here how this was last straw and their season tickets won't be renewed. If the last 10 years of this team being total trash wasn't what did it, idk how a team with holes that is still rebuilding is the straw that breaks you. 

[Contempt]

Is it just me or has this down turn coincided with Jokiharu's return? Not that he could even possibly be fully at fault but the defense has not been good of late.

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, Contempt said:

Is it just me or has this down turn coincided with Jokiharu's return? Not that he could even possibly be fully at fault but the defense has not been good of late.

Defence has probably been a little better than it was when we were winning. Chances seem down.

What's changed is the offence isn't scoring 4 any more.

Edited January 18, 2023 by dudacek

[Marvin]

IMHO, the team's biggest weakness all season has been defencive zone coverage.  People are not coming down the slot wide open anymore, but players are still finding themselves wide open near the goal, ready for a pass.

IMHO, this is Granato deciding that players play without fear and be more aggressive getting up ice.  Defence is taught, but clearly it is not emphasised as much in practice.  It points to a development year with a lot of exciting play, but with the ups and downs that come with that approach.  The question becomes when does the coaching staff think that players have developed enough that it then becomes time to work on defencive play more extensively.

I also imagine the current lack of practice matters too.

[Taro T]

12 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

not even debatable as no team has ever gone this far into the abyss

Check out the Seals/Barons.  You may want to revise that statement.

Their high watermark was 69 points in 76 games in their 2nd season.  They only lasted 11 years, but in the year they merged w/ the No Stars they still couldn't top that 69.  4 seasons under 50 points w/ the low point being 36.

Yes, they made the playoffs twice, but only because 4 of the 6 expansion Western Conference teams got into the playoffs.  If only 1/2 the league made the playoffs (like now & when the Aisles entered the league) using the late 70's playoff seedings (top 12 of 18 regardless of conference) their best squad would've missed the playoffs by 8 points.

 

And not quite the same, but definitely similar, the Wings had 15 losing seasons out of 17 & only made the playoffs twice in that span.  They had 4 more years of losing records after that, but due to lucking into the Norris actually got into the playoffs 3 of those years.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Taro T

[LTS]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

Game sucked but I feel like many people forget what this teams expectations were for the season. Everyone knew coming in that they were several pieces short of being a good team.  Then they won some games in electrifying fashion and now most people are incredulous as to how the Sabres can lose these games.  
 

I got your answer. This team was never that good.  They are still missing several pieces they need to get over the hump.  The kids are still learning NHL hockey, zone coverage and defensively responsibilities.  This team is almost exactly where they were predicted to be.  On the fringe of the playoffs, most likely in the outside looking in.   

My expectations of the team were low, until they showed that they had the ability to play at a higher level.  Once they did that they reset my expectations. They are several short of being a better team. 

What irritates me to no end is watching players who can perform better not perform better. Watching players make the same mistakes, or learning new ones. For example, it would be nice if this team stopped looking to pass Thompson the puck every chance they can.  Deference to star players is not needed, in fact, if you demonstrate that you are going to first look to get the puck to that person other teams will game plan against it.. and that's what we are seeing.

A star player is a decoy if the opponent is committed to taking them away. You force teams to change their game plan by NOT passing to them and using that player to open up space and make others available.  I have seen more stupid passes to try and get Thompson the puck in the past 10 games than I have all season. The abysmal power play is a great example of it.

This team also needs to learn how to defend. It's that simple.  This isn't because they are not able to be good at it. They are actively being coached to NOT be good at it.

The game tying goal last night was scored because, once again, the forward is standing on top of the goalie. Where's the D?  In front or off to the side.  That is a very broken defensive scheme.

The first goal scored was because all 5 Sabres players were covering 1/4 of the offensive zone.  Not a single player looking at where Connor Murphy was or where he could go to get a high percentage shot on goal.

The Sabres defensive scheme is absolutely broken.

Finally.. the team continues to play soft.  When Jost and Krebs are tied at the top with "2" hits along with Thompson and Samuelsson. The players who should be playing a more physical game, Alex Tuch (0), Lyubushkin (0).  Krebs and Jost did not have HUGE hits, but they did establish a meaningful forecheck that saw their lines establish a lot of offensive zone presence.

I'm not seeing the effort from the players that they've already shown they can give. It's not growing pains, it's a mindset. And I don't blame Granato for all of it.  A player has to be committed to playing at the level they can, every night. Pre-game speeches last about 5 minutes into the game. The rest is on the player.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LTS said:

My expectations of the team were low, until they showed that they had the ability to play at a higher level.  Once they did that they reset my expectations. They are several short of being a better team. 

What irritates me to no end is watching players who can perform better not perform better. Watching players make the same mistakes, or learning new ones. For example, it would be nice if this team stopped looking to pass Thompson the puck every chance they can.  Deference to star players is not needed, in fact, if you demonstrate that you are going to first look to get the puck to that person other teams will game plan against it.. and that's what we are seeing.

A star player is a decoy if the opponent is committed to taking them away. You force teams to change their game plan by NOT passing to them and using that player to open up space and make others available.  I have seen more stupid passes to try and get Thompson the puck in the past 10 games than I have all season. The abysmal power play is a great example of it.

This team also needs to learn how to defend. It's that simple.  This isn't because they are not able to be good at it. They are actively being coached to NOT be good at it.

The game tying goal last night was scored because, once again, the forward is standing on top of the goalie. Where's the D?  In front or off to the side.  That is a very broken defensive scheme.

The first goal scored was because all 5 Sabres players were covering 1/4 of the offensive zone.  Not a single player looking at where Connor Murphy was or where he could go to get a high percentage shot on goal.

The Sabres defensive scheme is absolutely broken.

Finally.. the team continues to play soft.  When Jost and Krebs are tied at the top with "2" hits along with Thompson and Samuelsson. The players who should be playing a more physical game, Alex Tuch (0), Lyubushkin (0).  Krebs and Jost did not have HUGE hits, but they did establish a meaningful forecheck that saw their lines establish a lot of offensive zone presence.

I'm not seeing the effort from the players that they've already shown they can give. It's not growing pains, it's a mindset. And I don't blame Granato for all of it.  A player has to be committed to playing at the level they can, every night. Pre-game speeches last about 5 minutes into the game. The rest is on the player.

Have been desperately hoping fir at least the last 3 games to see Dahlin, Cozens, & the rest on the PP fake the pass to Thompson & follow through w/ a shot that Tuch knows is coming so he can crash for a rebound if the 1st shot doesn't go.

As bad as other parts of the game are at present, if the PP even nets 1 per game they've got at least 3 more points in the standings & likely more like 5 from this last rough patch.

[msw2112]

What would the mood be on this board, if, on the Sabres last 2 on 1 in OT, the pass was made instead of the shot taken, and the puck went into the net?

[Taro T]

51 minutes ago, Contempt said:

Is it just me or has this down turn coincided with Jokiharu's return? Not that he could even possibly be fully at fault but the defense has not been good of late.

His 1st game back was Seattle.  That was also when Peterka & Quinn were benched and the 3 headed goalie monster was born.  Expect that has more to do w/ the issues than Jokiharju being back.

And the really bad game was the night before vs Filly.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I still believe the expectations of this team changed when they showed a higher ability to play against the better teams. Unfortunately same problems this team has had for years also still exists. We are forechecked and we fold. Play aggressive with us and we fall apart. Play down to other teams. The team/coaches cannot adapt when other teams adapted against us and shut our best scorer down. This team needs to adjust and they need to figure it out soon, or they will be right back in the place they were last year.... just another team to fill a slot after the top 16 go play additional hockey. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Contempt said:

Is it just me or has this down turn coincided with Jokiharu's return? Not that he could even possibly be fully at fault but the defense has not been good of late.

 Jokiharu is not the problem, we are better with him than with Clagge/Fitz/Pilut

[inkman]

40 minutes ago, NJhopelessSabresfan66 said:

I still believe the expectations of this team changed when they showed a higher ability to play against the better teams. Unfortunately same problems this team has had for years also still exists. We are forechecked and we fold. Play aggressive with us and we fall apart. Play down to other teams. The team/coaches cannot adapt when other teams adapted against us and shut our best scorer down. This team needs to adjust and they need to figure it out soon, or they will be right back in the place they were last year.... just another team to fill a slot after the top 16 go play additional hockey. 

I mean with a handle like @NJhopelessSabresfan66 posts like this should be expected. You aren’t a glass half empty guy, you are a glass exploded because I smashed it I’m so angry at the Sabres guy.  

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, msw2112 said:

What would the mood be on this board, if, on the Sabres last 2 on 1 in OT, the pass was made instead of the shot taken, and the puck went into the net?

Good question.   For me it would be relief to get two points, I would be trying to use the "tired team on a back to back" story to try to reconcile the poor performance.  Which is an excuse because that game should have been put away by a 4-1 or 5-1 score.  

The reality is they should have destroyed that team last night.  They played a very slow, bad team with a minor league goalie and they showed very little.  

I feel like ranting!

What my mood really is?  Disgust that there was no fire in their play once again last night.  Disgust that some basic systems are not in place to protect a 2 goal lead and get the W in the road.   Disgust that we do not have a center that can be relied on to win a faceoff in our zone.  Disgust that the First line was massively bad playing the 6 on 5.  Disgust that we goofed around with the puck in OT, had the majority of the puck possession time, but did not really test their goalie. We played a ***** goalie and made him look good.  

Something is wrong when you have a 2 goal lead after 2 periods, and you are playing Chicago, and you give up 3 straight goals to lose in OT?  The game tying goal in the third says a lot.   6 on 5, we fail at faceoffs in our end, we never get full control of the puck, when we do touch the puck we take low percentage 200 foot shots at the empty net rather than work it out into the neutral zone to take off some pressure and for a higher percentage shot.   Worse, our first line was literally standing there watching, no pressure on the puck at all.  Seth Jones has the puck on the point and has all the time in the world to skate to the center of the blue line, wait for a screen and put a low hard shot on the net.  No pressure on him from a forward, no forwards with any effort to take a shooting lane away.  No one clearing the slot so that our Goalie can see the puck.  THEY DID NOTHING.   That was Tage, Tuch, and Skinner out there DOING NOTHING.  Maybe they were waiting for another 200 foot shot at an EN?  

Systems are not in place, practiced and learned, to protect a lead.  Granato says attack, play fast, play fearless, make them play our game. When it works it is fun and we score.  Even when we score we give up too many odd man rushes on our goalie.  Does Granato have all the bases covered to win on game day, and to adjust to the oponent, and to adjust to the level his team is putting out?  That will be a big question going forward for him.  

For that last 2 minutes with 6 attackers on the ice we have to find 6 forwards on this roster that we can trust to win a draw, pressure the puck, and bust ass to get the puck over our blue - Defend responsibly first, then we can worry about EN goals.   Who do I trust right now to play this way?  Not Skinner, not Tage, not Mitts, not VO, not Quinn, and not Peterka.  That 6 on 5 was aweful.   Tired or not, it was pitiful.  Then they played the OT with arrogance - lots of skating around but no jam.  

 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Pimlach

[Claude Balls]

5 hours ago, inkman said:

Game sucked but I feel like many people forget what this teams expectations were for the season. Everyone knew coming in that they were several pieces short of being a good team.  Then they won some games in electrifying fashion and now most people are incredulous as to how the Sabres can lose these games.  
 

I got your answer. This team was never that good.  They are still missing several pieces they need to get over the hump.  The kids are still learning NHL hockey, zone coverage and defensively responsibilities.  This team is almost exactly where they were predicted to be.  On the fringe of the playoffs, most likely in the outside looking in.   

I said early in the season, this was maybe a bubble team. They are nowhere near a playoff team. Way too inconsistent on a daily basis (coaching) and still have below average goaltending. Still have a long way to go until GMKA realizes goaltending is pretty important. If he (KA) doesn't realize what talent he has up front, he will ruin this team. And I won't be surprised. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Contempt said:

Is it just me or has this down turn coincided with Jokiharu's return? Not that he could even possibly be fully at fault but the defense has not been good of late.

It's just you. 

[K-9]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What's also bs is this. You are suggesting the GM is not being active in trying to add the pieces we need. That isn't how being the GM works. 

Basically yeah. 

I am bemused by the ppl who are now posting in here how this was last straw and their season tickets won't be renewed. If the last 10 years of this team being total trash wasn't what did it, idk how a team with holes that is still rebuilding is the straw that breaks you. 

It isn’t one god damned straw; it’s fifty years of straws. That’s a lot of straws and tens of thousands of dollars. There is nothing sudden about this so I’m bemused by your bemusement as well. 

Here’s what it looks like to me: this is a team full of players content with just playing hockey. No desperation, no realization that they are in a playoff race and little concern if they make it or not. They are using “development” as a crutch. And that includes Granato. So pardon me if that’s worn thin at this point. The least they can do is care as much as I do.