Faceoff Guru & a Couple Stay at Home Defensemen

[Marvin]

I thought Lyubushkin would be better, but the injuries have hurt his meshing with the system and are leading to penalties.  On the other hand, I think Kale Clague has been his highest quality consistent partner has not helped one bit either.

In any event, I would prefer Clague being pushed down the chart with an upgrade.  However, since I imagine part of the function of this year was to get an idea of what we have in Bryson, Fitzgerald, Pilut, and Clague, I am not holding my breath.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

I thought Lyubushkin would be better, but the injuries have hurt his meshing with the system and are leading to penalties.  On the other hand, I think Kale Clague has been his highest quality consistent partner has not helped one bit either.

In any event, I would prefer Clague being pushed down the chart with an upgrade.  However, since I imagine part of the function of this year was to get an idea of what we have in Bryson, Fitzgerald, Pilut, and Clague, I am not holding my breath.

I think Buffalo should realize what they have in those 4. 7/8 defenders that you dont want taking a regular shift. We really need another 2 defenders to round out the roster and help us going forward. If Adams can acquire one before the trade deadline that would be tremendous but we need a 2nd this offseason. 

[Second Line Center]

I’m not so sure it’s a “stay at home D man” we need as much as we need need another affective offensive puck moving D man.  

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Bush was a good signing that has yet to pan out; there's no assured "good play" clause in any contract. Just look at Philly who dealt for Ellis only for him to get a career ending injury within a week of starting last year. 

I wouldn't call it "good". It was a bottom end over pay to marginally fill a gaping wide hole. So it wasn't a BAD idea, but it wasn't anything spectacular either. Much the same as Comrie as goalie. All the weak spots from before the season are still the weak spots. 

[John Tucker]

Assuming that Ryan Johnson signs this spring, where would he fit in?  I don't know enough about his game.  I personally think he will test the waters, along with Portillo.  And if KA has any inclination that either or both of them won't sign, hopefully he tries to get at least a bag of pucks for them via the trade route.  If Levi continues to struggle, there's a better chance that he will actually sign with us.  

Edited January 11, 2023 by John Tucker

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Buffalo should realize what they have in those 4. 7/8 defenders that you dont want taking a regular shift. We really need another 2 defenders to round out the roster and help us going forward. If Adams can acquire one before the trade deadline that would be tremendous but we need a 2nd this offseason. 

Yep.  I'd add Bush to that list as well.  I'm wondering if the best plan maybe is to get Power a legit partner, demote Joki to the 3rd pair with Bush or Clague and then see how things play out.  

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Buffalo should realize what they have in those 4. 7/8 defenders that you dont want taking a regular shift. We really need another 2 defenders to round out the roster and help us going forward. If Adams can acquire one before the trade deadline that would be tremendous but we need a 2nd this offseason. 

 

8 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

I’m not so sure it’s a “stay at home D man” we need as much as we need need another affective offensive puck moving D man.  

 

8 hours ago, John Tucker said:

Assuming that Ryan Johnson signs this spring, where would he fit in?  I don't know enough about his game.  I personally think he will test the waters, along with Portillo.  And if KA has any inclination that either or both of them won't sign, hopefully he tries to get at least a bag of pucks for them via the trade route.  If Levi continues to struggle, there's a better chance that he will actually sign with us.  

 

Ryan Johnson is a defensively sound puckmoving defenceman with average size and elite feet who projects as a good 4/5.

He would be far more foolish than Erik Portillo to go to free agency.

Sure there's burning off a year of ELC advantage. And there's also plenty of evidence that the Sabres are the type of team that not only gives young players a fair chance, they actually do a good job of developing them. They've treated him well and they play a style that suits his game.

But unlike Portillo — who would be battling with 2 other "goalies of the future", at best would start next season in a 50/50 battle for the crease in Rochester, and could just as easily be in the ECHL — Johnson would have a 50/50 chance of walking right into the #5 spot on the Sabres blueline this spring and may never have to play a period in the AHL.

Think about it. There's a pretty good chance he's as good or better than Bryson and Clague right now.

Maybe he has other "life"priorities, but from a "hockey" perspective, I'm not sure a better situation exists for him in terms of a path to NHL success.

Edited January 12, 2023 by dudacek

[Porous Five Hole]

47 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

 

 

Ryan Johnson is a defensively sound puckmoving defenceman with average size and elite feet who projects as a good 4/5.

He would be far more foolish than Erik Portillo to go to free agency.

Sure there's burning off a year of ELC advantage. And there's also plenty of evidence that the Sabres are the type of team that not only gives young players a fair chance, they actually do a good job of developing them. They've treated him well and they play a style that suits his game.

But unlike Portillo — who would be battling with 2 other "goalies of the future", at best would start next season in a 50/50 battle for the crease in Rochester, and could just as easily be in the ECHL — Johnson would have a 50/50 chance of walking right into the #5 spot on the Sabres blueline this spring and may never have to play a period in the AHL.

Think about it. There's a pretty good chance he's as good or better than Bryson and Clague right now.

Maybe he has other "life"priorities, but from a "hockey" perspective, I'm not sure a better situation exists for him in terms of a path to NHL success.

I’m just confused by this whole relationship. The Sabres are clearly on the rise, they can burn a year of the ELC if they want, and Ryan was born into a hockey family that has no reason to defect from the Sabres. And, Buffalo has the option of a compensatory pick in their back pocket. So maybe a college degree is a motivating factor for his decision to remain in school, but I can see a happy marriage forthcoming. Am I missing something? 

[Pimlach]

On 1/10/2023 at 7:15 PM, sweetlou said:

You want cheap rentals from St. Louis you ask for Acciari for center who can win face-offs and play a physical game. On d get Mikkola who would begreaton 3rd pair LD. 

Yes. This is level we are at.  Any big money goes to re-signing our own.  

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, John Tucker said:

Assuming that Ryan Johnson signs this spring, where would he fit in?  I don't know enough about his game.  I personally think he will test the waters, along with Portillo.  And if KA has any inclination that either or both of them won't sign, hopefully he tries to get at least a bag of pucks for them via the trade route.  If Levi continues to struggle, there's a better chance that he will actually sign with us.  

He fits in Rochester.  He may good enough to beat out Bryson and Clague, but for his own good time  in Rochester would serve him well.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

22 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No he wasn't.  It's like saying Ville Leino was a good signing.  We could have received similar results for 2/3 less because all we are getting is veteran minimum play.  He simply is a low hockey IQ player.   That's what he was in Toronto and AZ and that is what he is here.  He's like Risto with Zero offense (or Risto this year).

We need two players who are positionally sound and get the puck up to the forwards and out of the zone.  

 

Bushkin is a third pairing defenseman who adds an element of physicality to the unit. He has been plagued by injuries that has further crimped his already recognized limitations associated with his speed. The organization got the type of player that they were seeking, a bottom half defenseman who was physical. It's unfair to criticize this player for his liabilities when the Sabres got exactly what they expected to get. The reality is that the Sabres would have been better off if they added another Bushkin type player to the unit. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Bushkin is a third pairing defenseman who adds an element of physicality to the unit. He has been plagued by injuries that has further crimped his already recognized limitations associated with his speed. The organization got the type of player that they were seeking, a bottom half defenseman who was physical. It's unfair to criticize this player for his liabilities when the Sabres got exactly what they expected to get. The reality is that the Sabres would have been better off if they added another Bushkin type player to the unit. 

So you’re saying that KA wanted a slow positionally unsound player just because he was physical?  Seriously and you want to add a second one just like him?  Why would they bring in a slow D for a fast paced counter punching style?  That makes no sense.  I

If this is really what KA wanted when he signed Bush then we have to question KAs judgement.  

We knew before the season that according to advanced stats, Joki made everyone who played with him worse.  What KA needed to do if he was only adding one top 6 was to find a partner for Power who would be positionally sound and help maximize Power’s game much like Mule does for Dahlin.  That would have dropped Joki to Bryson’s pair potentially giving us a decent third pair.  He then need to bring in someone as insurance if someone didn’t work out or injuries hit.  Bush might have been fine for that role, maybe.  

Instead he brought in Bush and prayed Joki would be ok with Power.  It hasn’t worked.  Bush is Cody Franson 2.0 and is a deficit ever time he takes ice.  
 

We still need a top 4 D partner for Power and better depth than Clague, Bush and Bryson

Edited January 12, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[FrenchConnection44]

On 1/10/2023 at 4:45 PM, Refuting said:

Horvat and Schenn 

Both would add physicality to the team.
 

But I would not give up much for them. Given they are loans. But I do have interest in Horvat in free agency. As long as we still get Dahlin and Cousins under long term deals. 
 

Horvat adds something the Sabres don’t have. Physicality in a two way forward. 
 

Schenn would also add that. And both are positive in the plus minus. I wonder about Schenn’s resurgence - is it the system? Or what? 
 

 

 

[Pimlach]

On 1/11/2023 at 1:57 AM, PerreaultForever said:

and before you say he doesn't have a no trade clause, do you really think the Blues would do that to the guy who won them a cup? 

Yes.  I do.    Many of his teammates that he clicked with are gone too. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you’re saying that KA wanted a slow positionally unsound player just because he was physical?  Seriously and you want to add a second one just like him?  Why would they bring in a slow D for a fast paced counter punching style?  That makes no sense.  I

If this is really what KA wanted when he signed Bush then we have to question KAs judgement.  

We knew before the season that according to advanced stats, Joki made everyone who played with him worse.  What KA needed to do if he was only adding one top 6 was to find a partner for Power who would be positionally sound and help maximize Power’s game much like Mule does for Dahlin.  That would have dropped Joki to Bryson’s pair potentially giving us a decent third pair.  He then need to bring in someone as insurance if someone didn’t work out or injuries hit.  Bush might have been fine for that role, maybe.  

Instead he brought in Bush and prayed Joki would be ok with Power.  It hasn’t worked.  Bush is Cody Franson 2.0 and is a deficit ever time he takes ice.  
 

We still need a top 4 D partner for Power and better depth than Clague, Bush and Bryson

As I said in the prior post, Bushkin was a third pairing caliber of defenseman. He's certainly not fast but without question his injury, that kept him out for an extensive period of time, has not helped him with his skating. Would I want to add a Bushkin caliber blue liner to the lower pairing mix? Yes. 

I'm aware that I'm in the minority here but I do believe that Joki is a second pairing caliber of player. I still believe that he has upside. However, I'm not a stubborn absolutist. If a better player is brought in that would drop him to a lower pairing, then I would be all for it. 

You could talk about advanced stats all you want. When you listen to Granato talk about Joki he seems to be enamored with him and his upside. And that isn't hollow public relations talk because he does extensively play him. 

[Marvin]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you’re saying that KA wanted a slow positionally unsound player just because he was physical?  Seriously and you want to add a second one just like him?  Why would they bring in a slow D for a fast paced counter punching style?  That makes no sense.  I

If this is really what KA wanted when he signed Bush then we have to question KAs judgement.  

We knew before the season that according to advanced stats, Joki made everyone who played with him worse.  What KA needed to do if he was only adding one top 6 was to find a partner for Power who would be positionally sound and help maximize Power’s game much like Mule does for Dahlin.  That would have dropped Joki to Bryson’s pair potentially giving us a decent third pair.  He then need to bring in someone as insurance if someone didn’t work out or injuries hit.  Bush might have been fine for that role, maybe.  

Instead he brought in Bush and prayed Joki would be ok with Power.  It hasn’t worked.  Bush is Cody Franson 2.0 and is a deficit ever time he takes ice.  
 

We still need a top 4 D partner for Power and better depth than Clague, Bush and Bryson

Lyubushkin was not positionally unsound in Toronto, but he had a consistent partner; thus, his defence tandem read plays together and made correct ensemble plays.

Because he has been injured and has not had a consistent partner except for the earliest part of the season, he and his partners are often not on the same page.  He needs to stay healthy ("the #1 ability is availability") and needs to settle in with Clague or whomever until they function well as a pair.

[Taro T]

6 hours ago, Marvin said:

Lyubushkin was not positionally unsound in Toronto, but he had a consistent partner; thus, his defence tandem read plays together and made correct ensemble plays.

Because he has been injured and has not had a consistent partner except for the earliest part of the season, he and his partners are often not on the same page.  He needs to stay healthy ("the #1 ability is availability") and needs to settle in with Clague or whomever until they function well as a pair.

Much to Clague's (& probably Lyubuskin's) chagrin, because he's been playing with him a lot, the guy Buusch has some chemistry w/ is Bryson.

Wouldn't be surprised if Bryson gets more games than Clague now that Jokiharju is back.  (And yes, in a vacuum, it would seem Clague is better than Bryson.)

[Pimlach]

Nice Josty

[Pimlach]

Dahlin is amazing 

[Pimlach]

Oh my.  

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Dahlin is amazing 

He is.

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Oh my.  

Would've been nice to have UPL bail him out there.  He's normally studly on breakaways.  But Conner is having a really good year.

They need to keep working.  They can get it back.