How bad is Casey Mittelstadt?

[Weave]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

FYI:  Who is who?

Player 1

Age 20 - 81gm 26pts .32p/gp -16

Age 21 - 82gm 26pts .32p/gp -18

Age 22 - 71gm 27pts .38p/gp -6

Age 23 - 51gm 12pts .23p/gp -1

Age 24 - 48gm 27pts .56p/gp -2

Player 2

Age 20 - 77gm 25 pts . 32p/gp -19

Age 21 - 31gm 9pts .29p/gp -5

Age 22 - 41gm 22pts .54p/gp -10

Age 23 - 40gm 19pts .48p/gp - 14

Age 24 - 41gm 25tps .61p/gp -12 

Instead of playing a stupid game, make your point.

[Taro T]

36 minutes ago, Weave said:

Instead of playing a stupid game, make your point.

The 2nd is Mitts.  No data on the 1st guy.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

You jolly joker you @GASabresIUFAN.

They both could be CM37 or neither could be CM37.

 

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Instead of playing a stupid game, make your point.

Grumpy much?

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The 2nd is Mitts.  No data on the 1st guy.  

Player No. 1 is former 4th overall pick Sam Bennett.  

The point is Casey has been better to this point in his career than Bennett and we saw today what Bennett is capable of.  

Some of the questions I asked earlier is does Casey still have upside and what will he be in the future here or elsewhere and I think Bennett is a great proxy.

During today’s broadcast Ray talked about how Casey is improved along the boards and I think that fact is what is helping to fuel that lines better play and as I watched Bennett today I realized he went through a similar maturation process. Like Bennett Casey may have to move to another franchise to unlock his full potential.

Edited January 16, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Broken Ankles]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

FYI:  Who is who?

Player 1

Age 20 - 81gm 26pts .32p/gp -16

Age 21 - 82gm 26pts .32p/gp -18

Age 22 - 71gm 27pts .38p/gp -6

Age 23 - 51gm 12pts .23p/gp -1

Age 24 - 48gm 27pts .56p/gp -2

Player 2

Age 20 - 77gm 25 pts . 32p/gp -19

Age 21 - 31gm 9pts .29p/gp -5

Age 22 - 41gm 22pts .54p/gp -10

Age 23 - 40gm 19pts .48p/gp - 14

Age 24 - 41gm 25tps .61p/gp -12 

Casey has to be player 2 based on games played. 
Question is who is player 1? 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Broken Ankles

[Taro T]

42 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Grumpy much?

Player No. 1 is former 4th overall pick Sam Bennett.  

The point is Casey has been better to this point in his career than Bennett and we saw today what Bennett is capable of.  

Some of the questions I asked earlier is does Casey still have upside and what will he be in the future here or elsewhere and I think Bennett is a great proxy.

During today’s broadcast Ray talked about how Casey is improved along the boards and I think that fact is what is helping to fuel that lines better play and as I watched Bennett today I realized he went through a similar maturation process. Like Bennett Casey may have to move to another franchise to unlock his full potential.

He IS better along the boards in the last 10 or so games, but would argue it's his play AWAY from the boards that's fueling his improved play.  When he & Olofsson were 2/3's of the 2nd line even though he was playing C, he nearly ALWAYS brought the puck to the boards & then tried to skate it up the boards or he'd win a battle along the boards & then lose it back either via strip or poor pass.

It took a few games as the C & then LW on the 3rd line to start to change that & really those 2 games on the 1st line got him to play away from & not just at the boards.  He's played positionally sound in his own end, but other than that he was ALWAYS at the boards.  He started going to the net after that & ALSO started actually weaving & cycling when put back w/ Jost & VO.

IMHO, his not telegraphing the advance up the boards has opened up some space for himself & accordingly his linemates.  (Playing as the 3rd line also helps, but the 1st 6 or so games there as the 3rd scoring line actually saw his play suffer when it should've improved.)  Other teams just needed to collapse on him because he had nowhere to go & the puck stayed to the perimeter.

 And also IMHO, it's his improved play & he & Jost starting to get the feel for what the other is doing that has been a portion of Olofsson's improved play.  W/ Casey not just going up the boards allows him to do his thing better whichnis find a soft spot to be fed for a 1 timer.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yeah @Weave don't be so crumpy you old man you.

It's better to joke around about it.  Like I did.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Grumpy much?

Player No. 1 is former 4th overall pick Sam Bennett.  

The point is Casey has been better to this point in his career than Bennett and we saw today what Bennett is capable of.  

Some of the questions I asked earlier is does Casey still have upside and what will he be in the future here or elsewhere and I think Bennett is a great proxy.

During today’s broadcast Ray talked about how Casey is improved along the boards and I think that fact is what is helping to fuel that lines better play and as I watched Bennett today I realized he went through a similar maturation process. Like Bennett Casey may have to move to another franchise to unlock his full potential.

 

2 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Casey has to be player 2 based on games played. 
Question is who is player 1? 

See above.

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Grumpy much?

Player No. 1 is former 4th overall pick Sam Bennett.  

The point is Casey has been better to this point in his career than Bennett and we saw today what Bennett is capable of.  

Some of the questions I asked earlier is does Casey still have upside and what will he be in the future here or elsewhere and I think Bennett is a great proxy.

During today’s broadcast Ray talked about how Casey is improved along the boards and I think that fact is what is helping to fuel that lines better play and as I watched Bennett today I realized he went through a similar maturation process. Like Bennett Casey may have to move to another franchise to unlock his full potential.

If you break it down to Even Strength points, Bennett has a 17% edge in PPG (.299/game vs .254/game) over the same period measured (year 20-24).  And more Goals per game ES.  His Corsi and other advanced metrics are better, as are blocked shots, hits and take aways.  His plus /minus is also better.  (Can we still use that stat?? 👀 ).   He brings a different element to a third line that Casey does not.  To look at a singular overall PPG metric and declare victory is short sighted.  I think almost all GM's if given the opportunity take Bennett 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday.  

  That said, as one of those who clearly would not be considered for the Mitts fan club, I would be remiss if I did not recognize the progress he's shown in the last 7-9 games.  Developing a synergy with Jost and seemingly skating faster, losing the puck less - especially along the boards.   Prior to today he was even in +/- during January and I think on the ice for the most goals (ES) of any skater except Dahlin, which says a lot.  But the progress needs to continue.  As I noted earlier in the thread, I'm firmly in the camp he will be traded, but it doesn't have to be this year, as he still has another year at a very reasonable number to prove himself.    

[GASabresIUFAN]

32 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

If you break it down to Even Strength points, Bennett has a 17% edge in PPG (.299/game vs .254/game) over the same period measured (year 20-24).  And more Goals per game ES.  His Corsi and other advanced metrics are better, as are blocked shots, hits and take aways.  His plus /minus is also better.  (Can we still use that stat?? 👀 ).   He brings a different element to a third line that Casey does not.  To look at a singular overall PPG metric and declare victory is short sighted.  I think almost all GM's if given the opportunity take Bennett 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday.  

  That said, as one of those who clearly would not be considered for the Mitts fan club, I would be remiss if I did not recognize the progress he's shown in the last 7-9 games.  Developing a synergy with Jost and seemingly skating faster, losing the puck less - especially along the boards.   Prior to today he was even in +/- during January and I think on the ice for the most goals (ES) of any skater except Dahlin, which says a lot.  But the progress needs to continue.  As I noted earlier in the thread, I'm firmly in the camp he will be traded, but it doesn't have to be this year, as he still has another year at a very reasonable number to prove himself.    

I'm not in the camp the EV points matter over PP points.  I think that is an overused notion that a player who gets all his points at EV is somehow a better player.  To me it points out that the player isn't good enough on his team to play on the PP.  Girgensons gets all his points at even strength.  Tage only has 16 EV goals of his 31.  Does that diminish Tage's production?  Last I looked the name of the game is scoring.  

Bennett wasn't good enough to be a major part of Calgary's PP.  However he is part of Florida's 2nd PP and not surprisingly his PP points have increased.  Also his +/- dramatically improved when he went to a Cup contender in Fla.  This year, with FL not nearly as strong defensively, he is back to -7.

I will agree the Bennett is a better goal scorer and a much more physical player, but I think Casey is actually the better passer.  Casey and Bennett are about the same size.  I'd like to see Casey be more physical.  I think it would help his game.

All that said, no two players are the same, but I think Sam and Casey's development path is similar and Sam's growth as a two way player gives me hope for Casey.

Edited January 17, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Eleven]

He's not good.

Whether Sam Bennett is good has nothing to do with it.

[Doohicksie]

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

He started going to the net after that & ALSO started actually weaving & cycling when put back w/ Jost & VO.

One thing I've noticed of late is that he would lead a rush right into the heart of the defense and then turn the puck over.  He still rushes into the defense but before it's too late he's moving it to a linemate.  HUGE improvement from "where offense goes to die" to "penetrates the opponent's zone and retains possession".

Edited January 17, 2023 by Doohickie

[Eleven]

Chicago's first goal was on Mittlestadt and I still don't care about Sam Bennett.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Eleven

[COSabreFan]

57 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Chicago's first goal was on Mittlestadt and I still don't care about Sam Bennett.

Didn’t get any better. Yikes

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Chicago's first goal was on Mittlestadt and I still don't care about Sam Bennett.

I think Casey actually scored their game winner as well. I bet if he left that alone, Dahlin sweeps it out of the crease.

[bob_sauve28]

 

[inkman]

Casey has been a serviceable player for the last month.  He still makes glaring mistakes but they seem to be less egregious than previously.  

[LGR4GM]

Moving Mitts to wing and putting him with Jost has almost singlehandedly changed how that line plays. 

[Flashsabre]

The third line has picked up the slack for JJ and Quinn.

There are few teams that have 3rd lines with the production the Sabres have from theirs. As others have pointed out, since Jost was added to that line they have consistently been clicking.

With Jost on the 3rd line and Krebs on the 4th it seems like the forward lines have finally settled in.

[Doohicksie]

17 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

With Jost on the 3rd line and Krebs on the 4th it seems like the forward lines have finally settled in.

But it doesn't preclude Donny from tinkering with lines or strategically shortening his bench.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Moving Mitts to wing and putting him with Jost has almost singlehandedly changed how that line plays. 

Getting Jost to play with Mitts just as putting Krebs on a line with Okposo/Girgs made the individual players and line better. The coaching put the struggling players in a position to succeed. It worked wonderfully. Coaching matters!

[Eleven]

Hey, if they can turn him into something useful, I'm all for it!

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Not very bad atoll.

Maybe kind of good in the proper role for him, which he seems to be in.

[matter2003]

He is turning into a really good player in his role. There are games his line is the best one for the Sabres, which creates a lot of pressure on other teams with 3 lines to defend.

It's pretty awesome to see honestly.

Edited January 25, 2023 by matter2003

[IKnowPhysics]

Over the past ten games, the stats indicate that Mittelstadt, et al, is producing offense (CF/60, GF/60, etc) at a 2nd line-like rate, which is fantastic.  But what's even better is that they're crushing the opponent in xGA/60.  This has resulted in Mittelstadt, Jost, and Olofsson leading the forwards in xGF% around 60%, which is not just strikingly good for this team...

It's critical in order for Granato's line tactics to work.  Player usage charts show that we don't line match skill-vs-skill or shutdown-vs-skill.  We play some zone starts  (ie, putting out Skinner-Thompson-Tuch in the offensive zone), but we're not line-matching.  Granato rolls four lines.  Mittelstadt-Jost-Olofsson a month ago was considered to be a dreadful result of all of the other lines working well.

Granato's good coaching and the players' hard work have improved a once-upon-a-time all-is-lost 4th line into a transformative line 2A.  Additionally, quality hockey from the "bottom six" like this helps take pressure off the kids.

[K-9]

I watched the Tage Thompson “Mic’d Up” feature on the Sabres website and bad player or not, it’s obvious that Mitts is one of those glue guys on the team which is not an unimportant role. I think it helps explain DG’s loyalty and patience with him as well.