Rasmus Ristolainen, the myth has finally been broken

[LGR4GM]

For YEARS there was a lot of talk on this very board about how even though most advanced metrics said he was awful, Ristolainen still was pretty decent and his tough and assist driven play actually benefitted this team. I think by the time of his trade most if not all were over him, so to speak, but never the less the myth that Ristolainen was good/useful as a defender seemed to persist. It boggled my mind for years that I had to have raging debates over Sam Reinhart where Risto was just "good" and a lot of it came back to his ability to hit things now and again. 

After the trade Philly, who I think felt invested, signed him to a 5year, 5.1mil per year extension. He is in the first year of that deal. Since a lot of ppl like to crap on the analytics lets not even use them here. I said the myth of Risto has been broken, that he was a useful top 4 defender who produced points despite his defensive short comings. Well, right now after 728minutes of TOI he has 0 points. That's right Craig Anderson has produced more offense than Risto to this point so I think the myth that he is good can finally be put to rest. He was mediocre while here and now I think he's below replacement level. 

So what has Adams done? He managed to trade Ristolainen and got a 1st round pick for him. Also, if torts is so good as a coach, why is Risto even worse than before? 

 

[thewookie1]

I love the part about Craig Anderson, doesn’t Comrie have a point as well?

[French Collection]

The gift that keeps on giving, the Sabres got a 2023 second rounder from the Flyers as well as the Isaak Rosen pick.

The Sabres got 6 months of Robert Hagg who was moved for a 6th round pick (Gustav Karlsson).

[Marvin]

His tale is an object lesson in the usefulness of analytics over bromides like "but he gets points" and "but he hits people."  Points and hits are not useless, but the can be overwhelmed by other factors in evaluating a player.

I have always wondered how much Ristolainen, Zadorov, and Girgensons were hurt by The Tank.  They were better than guys on the Sabres at the time, so Nolan felt he needed them on the big club, but they really belonged in Rochester.

[matter2003]

Going back to last year and the year before that as a Sabre, he has a grand total of 6G-28A-34P in 141 games and 2,988 minutes of ice time, meaning he is averaging almost over 21 minutes of ice time a game.  That is mind bogglingly terrible production for a guy who wasn't all that bad in terms of point production with the Sabres for the most part having 4 straight 40+ point seasons here.

Dahlin has 37 points in 31 games just this year 😂

Edited December 21, 2022 by matter2003

[Pimlach]

So looking like an angry Viking on the ice doesn’t really matter?  
 

I never understood why he didn’t get any better with experience, but he didn’t.  

[Zamboni]

Two big myths …

Tort IS a great coach 

Risto IS a good Dman

Oh sorry, one more … in 2022, teams NEED a pugilist in the lineup.

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Two big myths …

Tort IS a great coach 

Risto IS a good Dman

Oh sorry, one more … in 2022, teams NEED a pugilist in the lineup.

Risto would kick Reaves’s ass.

[Pimlach]

28 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Risto would kick Reaves’s ass.

No he would not.  Risto is big and strong and nasty with his stick but he never knew how to fight, to actually use fists and trade punches.  
 

Reaves would win on and off the ice.  Reaves actually knows how to fight with fists,  Risto was expected to play defense, and he could hit hard, but he did not fight with his fists.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

Do we really care at this point?  I hope Rasmus enjoys his $ and lives a long and happy life.  That he makes Philly worse, all the better.

 

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do we really care at this point?  I hope Rasmus enjoys his $ and lives a long and happy life.  That he makes Philly worse, all the better.

 

The cherry on top is that the Flyers management signed him to that contract just this past off-season in spite of all the evidence because their management team is obsessed with big, physical guys; whether or not they can play the game well was immaterial.

[TheAud]

Maybe 6 years ago my Mom won a Risto jersey in a charity auction. Not game worn, just a nice replica, white with classic logo.  Was a perfect fit for me and I'm her Sabres-loving son...so I got it. 

2023: Wear this in public, or not?

My thinking is it needs to hibernate until Risto is retired a few years, the Sabres have won a Cup or two, and we can look back at those awful days and laugh. 

[inkman]

35 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do we really care at this point?  I hope Rasmus enjoys his $ and lives a long and happy life.  That he makes Philly worse, all the better.

 

Well I understand Liger’s point.  A certain segment of Sabres fans, on this forum included, were adamant about Risto being good, valuable, serviceable, etc.  They wouldn’t shut up about it.  All they could do is point to hits or points, disregarding what was staring everyone right in the face. He’s not good at hockey. He’s a himbo.  No idea what he’s doing out there.  See Casey Mittlestadt.  

[Doohicksie]

Oh but wait:  THAT STICK TWIRL.

 

Kind of sad that that's the only thing I remember about him at this point.  Not even the goal that led to it, just the twirl.

[Eleven]

They spent some time talking about this on WGR this morning.

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

His tale is an object lesson in the usefulness of analytics over bromides like "but he gets points" and "but he hits people."  Points and hits are not useless, but the can be overwhelmed by other factors in evaluating a player.

I have always wondered how much Ristolainen, Zadorov, and Girgensons were hurt by The Tank.  They were better than guys on the Sabres at the time, so Nolan felt he needed them on the big club, but they really belonged in Rochester.

All of them suffered by being on the Sabres too early. 
the Sabres failed them as much as they failed the Sabres 

 

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

No he would not.  Risto is big and strong and nasty with his stick but he never knew how to fight, to actually use fists and trade punches.  
 

Reaves would win on and off the ice.  Reaves actually knows how to fight with fists,  Risto was expected to play defense, and he could hit hard, but he did not fight with his fists.  

It’s called sarcasm.

[pi2000]

I've been a critic of his since day one.   

He's bad, always has been.

I, for one, feel vindicated. 

[Porous Five Hole]

Being just a -5 while averaging 18 min a night on that dog crap team is a little surprising. 
 

Maybe Torts told him he’s not allowed to skate past his own blue line?

[pi2000]

1 minute ago, pi2000 said:

I've been a critic of his since day one.   

He's bad, always has been.

I, for one, feel vindicated. 

That said another former Sabrespace darling, Samson Reinhart, continues to be a minus player, even on a stacked Florida squad.   

Making $6.5m he ranks 367th in cost per point... 24 points in 33 games, barely a 60pt pace.   

Is that worth $6.5m?  

 

[Doohicksie]

12 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I, for one, feel vindicated. 

Yes.

We know.

[Marvin]

10 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

That said another former Sabrespace darling, Samson Reinhart, continues to be a minus player, even on a stacked Florida squad.   

Making $6.5m he ranks 367th in cost per point... 24 points in 33 games, barely a 60pt pace.   

Is that worth $6.5m?  

 

Reinhart has not been good, but a lot of Panthers are playing worse than last year.  Florida's real problem is that ownership and/or their GM over-reacted to the playoffs loss last year.  I am not convinced that they have the right coach either.

[matter2003]

14 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Reinhart has not been good, but a lot of Panthers are playing worse than last year.  Florida's real problem is that ownership and/or their GM over-reacted to the playoffs loss last year.  I am not convinced that they have the right coach either.

I said last year that big trade they made with Huberdeau would not work out well for the Panthers and I was right.

Edited December 21, 2022 by matter2003

[Doohicksie]

The Panthers' problems are bigger than Reino.

[inkman]

36 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

That said another former Sabrespace darling, Samson Reinhart, continues to be a minus player, even on a stacked Florida squad.   

Making $6.5m he ranks 367th in cost per point... 24 points in 33 games, barely a 60pt pace.   

Is that worth $6.5m?  

 

Probably