GDT - Sabres @ Vegas - December 19, 2022 - 10:00 PM (EST) - MSG and WGR

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The hockey equivalent of football “prevent you from winning defense” when the defense sits in a two deep zone and allows the offense to easily hit 15 yard passes down the middle in an vain effort to run out of the clock.  Sometimes it works and sometimes it does.  

It drives me nuts when NFL teams do it and it’s just as bad when NHL teams do it.  The teams in the NHL and NFL got their leads by playing aggressively.  For the Sabres that means counterpunching. However at the end of games, the Sabres are sitting back trying to protect their leads, but end up giving puck control in zone to opponents against our injury riddled defense.  

Some of it isn’t by choice.  In the NFL teams go “hurry-up” to prevent defenses from substituting.  In the NHL it’s pulling the goaltender, but teams often really do seem to sit back allowing the other teams to attack.

In hockey, and football, as you noted, the reality is that the team that is behind loosens their defensive responsibilities in order to go full throttle on offense. So it shouldn't be surprising that the team that is dealing with the onslaught has to have a more defensive posture. They have no choice. They are adjusting to the situation. If, in this case, the Sabres took a more offensive response, they risk giving up quick goals in a short duration. I have no problem with taking the safer approach to prevent a score as opposed taking a risk to score additional goals. The coach and the team played it right. We got a win against a good team on the road. 

[Doohicksie]

8 hours ago, Believer said:

UPL got cheated out of the #1 Star the other night… He better get it tonight.

[Morgan Freeman voice]:  "And indeed he was the first star that night."

[Sabres Fan in NS]

A 28 page GDT in late December.

Ladies and gentlemen ... the Sabres are good again !!

Fantastic win.

I expected this kind of 3rd period with Vegas down 3 - 0.

UPL was lights out, but the whole team gutted it out.  This was a very big win.  They all did what they had to do to closeout a close game against a very good team.  This was the biggest win in probably 10 years.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Sabres Fan in NS

[Sidc3000]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Again it is a score effect thing. Most teams that are leading tend to get outshot as a game progresses, that's why 3 goal leads disappear in hockey. 

I'd argue they did handle the onslaught because they won, although I have only seen parts of the 3rd this morning as I am still catching up on the game. 

All I am saying is this type of thing where a team goes up by 2 or 3 goals and then gets caved in on shots is not a Sabres issue but a league wide phenomena. 

I totally understand that it does seem to happen throughout the league and I just don’t understand why. I just think that this teams’ lack of defensive structure can’t handle an onslaught like they are taking. They were lucky UPL stood on his head, especially in the 3rd period. He took a total of 84 SOG in two games. 

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, Sidc3000 said:

I totally understand that it does seem to happen throughout the league and I just don’t understand why. I just think that this teams’ lack of defensive structure can’t handle an onslaught like they are taking. They were lucky UPL stood on his head, especially in the 3rd period. He took a total of 84 SOG in two games. 

But it was explained why. after the explanation you are still asking why.

 

why? 😂

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

there is no way this team survives the first round if they got into the playoffs. 

Let's get into the playoffs and not worry so much about advancing.  The Sabres are excellent these days against lesser teams and is learning how to play better teams.  A win is a win, especially when half your D corps is hurt.  Last time the Sabres had this many players injured they were in the middle of an 8 game losing skid.

1 hour ago, Sidc3000 said:

I’m sure the Sabres didn’t purposely sit back. They couldn’t handle the onslaught 

Right.  That's pretty much how the league works these days.

[Sidc3000]

Just now, Zamboni said:

But it was explained why. after the explanation you are still asking why.

 

why? 😂

Easy partner… I was literally just reading what was posted after someone replied to what I said. 
 

[SwampD]

8 hours ago, SDS said:

That would take another immediate five game win streak.

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

They're going to have another losing streak at some point.  Just means they'll need a 2nd winning streak.  Pretty sure they have that in them too.

In the end though, all that matters is what the teams in front of us do.

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just a quick point.  DG played Dahlin and Samuelsson for the final 3 minutes tonight.  That is not a winning strategy long-term.  

Why not? When the Ducks won their cup. Neidermayer and Pronger regularly played well over half the game.

2 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Good win but this “kind of goaltending” would be impossible to sustain in the playoffs. UPL was absolute riddled with pucks in the third period. 21 SOG in one period is absolutely unsustainable for a goalie, especially if they’re playing every other day. UPL fended off 17 SOG in the 3rd period of the Aves game. In the last two games he started, he faced 84 SOG. 
 

there is no way this team survives the first round if they got into the playoffs. 
 

UPL did play outstanding and hopefully he is turning the corner. Time will tell 🤞

We’ll be seeing starting goalies by February. I don’t think we’ll have to worry about what will happen in the playoffs.😂

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, K-9 said:

I understand all that. Intuitive or not, let me enjoy the possibilities of the trend line continuing. 

I just enjoy seeing better hockey, then the points will come.  The key is to stop losing in streaks like last year, and that is where the goalie comes in.  Last night should have been an L, UPL was out of his head.  I don't think he knew he made a few of those saves.  We played a real good 2nd period, then had nothing left so it was a matter a closing them out and preserving the W.  

Edited December 20, 2022 by Pimlach

[Porous Five Hole]

45 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Many bonus internet points for the McKelvin quote attempt, but it was “…point blank period”. 

Fixed!

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well I actually found that win more impressive than some of the flashier earlier ones because they went up against a team that is playing a form of shut down hockey (Bylsma-like maybe) where they don't let you do what you want to do and you have to find ways to plug along and overcome it. And they did. Almost blew it, and they needed good goaltending to hold on, but they did, and that's a huge accomplishment. I think the kids learned a lot in this one even if the youngsters had to sit a fair bit when the going got tougher. 

There was sweat coming down some of their faces at the end. That's a huge positive in my book. Huge. 

 

Since you like to emphasize the rough stuff, note that the Sabres were not afraid of their big guys like Kolesar and Carrier.   You like to talk about the rough stuff.  One of the few teams that is actually bigger on average than Buffalo (and everyone else) is Vegas.  Kolesar blasted one of our tougher guys, who in turn blasted a few of their players.  We were never pushed around and in the 2nd period we showed them a younger and faster team that is on the rise.  In the 3rd we hung on and had to rely on great goaltending but given the circumstances (end of road trip, depleted roster on D, win streak intact) it was a good game for us.  

Splitting with Vegas is good.  They were missing players but so were we.  

Edited December 20, 2022 by Pimlach

[LTS]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just a quick point.  DG played Dahlin and Samuelsson for the final 3 minutes tonight.  That is not a winning strategy long-term.  

The other night Jack Hughes was on the ice for 6+ minute shift at the end of the game.  Sometimes it just happens and sometimes you ride your players in big situations.  Certainly not a long term strategy, but I don't think it's a strategy the Sabres would want.  Just like I don't think they want a whole line sitting a period.

UPL was fantastic in that game. I'll stop with the Sabres analysis right there.

The Knights are a team built to play in the playoffs. They play a heavy game and muck up the ice pretty good. As noted by many, the Sabres will not last in a playoff game. I would agree with that. The Sabres still rely far too much on poke-checks to get the puck. They rely on their speed and skill to "slow" the other team down. But a team that can play a heavy game will have success against them. By all rights, the Knights should have won that game. UPL was the man of the hour.

I'm not sure how in the hell Kolesar was not gone for 5 minutes on that hit. That was absolutely laughable.

I guess I will analyze the Sabres a bit. The Sabres do not need more scoring skill. They need to add players who can contribute an average amount for a 3rd liner and players who absolutely slow down the top players of the other team.  We're all on board with the dump VO and Mitts train... they clearly don't belong on this team any longer.

One hopes some movement comes soon... but there seems to remain a league that is not interested in too many trades yet.

[DarthEbriate]

16 minutes ago, SwampD said:

We’ll be seeing starting goalies by February. I don’t think we’ll have to worry about what will happen in the playoffs.😂

It is a little odd that other teams aren't using their starter against the highest-scoring team in the league. I think the other starting goalies are just scared.

[Dreams Burn Down]

2 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

there is no way this team survives the first round if they got into the playoffs.

IMHO, if we make the playoffs this season, that would pass even my wildest expectations; and I have often drawn from the hopium hookah far more than I should.

[Zamboni]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Since you like to emphasis the rough stuff, note that the Sabres were not afraid of their big guys like Kolesar and Carrier.   You like to talk about the rough stuff.  One of the few teams that is actually bigger on average than Buffalo (and everyone else) is Vegas.  Kolesar blasted one of our tougher guys, who in turn blasted a few of their players.  We were never pushed around and in the 2nd period we showed them a younger and faster team that is on the rise.  In the 3rd we hung on and had to rely on great goaltending but given the circumstances (end of road trip, depleted roster on D, win streak intact) it was a good game for us.  

Splitting with Vegas is good.  They were missing players but so were we.  

Well if we had Reeves that check on Loosh would have never ever happened. Reeves instills fear to even check an opponent hard. True story.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

IMHO, if we make the playoffs this season, that would pass even my wildest expectations; and I have often drawn from the hopium hookah far more than I should.

I love Istanbul.  You can eat a wonderful meal and then smoke the hookah without leaving your seat.  Then go pray in the awesomely beautiful Blue Mosque.

[Mustache of God]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just a quick point.  DG played Dahlin and Samuelsson for the final 3 minutes tonight.  That is not a winning strategy long-term.  

Eh, by my count there were a jillion icings in the last 3 minutes, so they were catching their breath. And since the only time the puck left the Sabres zone he didn't have the opportunity to get them off the ice.

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just a quick point.  DG played Dahlin and Samuelsson for the final 3 minutes tonight.  That is not a winning strategy long-term.  

Sure, but the rules do not allow a change after icing and we iced the puck over and over again.  The strategy of shooting for the net immediately may be statistically correct, but there are times you just need to get the puck out and change players.  We had problems gaining control in our end and getting into the neutral zone with possession.   Losing almost every face off in the defensive zone does not help either. 

Here is a strategy - Win a face-off cleanly, have a defenseman hit a crisp breakout pass to a forward and head man the puck at least to center ice, then you can change a few players and maybe get a better look at the net.    

For tonight, who do you play with Power and Joker out?  A tired 23 and 26 is still better than a rested 46, 38, 45, and 20.  

Edited December 20, 2022 by Pimlach

[tom webster]

Over the course of an 82 game season, playoff teams are going to win games they are not supposed to. You’ll need your goalie to steal a game or two or three.

It seems like some of the same people clamoring for an upgrade in net are dismissing a win because the Sabres finally had their goaltender win them a game.

They won. No apologies or explanations necessary.

[Pimlach]

7 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

What I observed being at the game. Samuelson is the Sabres best defenseman. The overall team defense needs a lot of work. Dahlin needs a lot of work on his defensive game. Now I see all the criticism from the Sabres fans on Mitts. He’s a lazy player. Jost was a solid pickup as he plays hard. UPL was their best player tonight but if people are criticizing him then you really need to look at Buffalo’s team defense. It needs a lot of work. 

 

Great game for you to see!   

Samuelsson is the best defensive defenseman.  He is s solid stay at home guy, very steady and smart.  Dahlin is their best overall defenseman, and maybe best in the league this season.  He is in the running for the Norris Trophy.  He plays insane minutes every night and he just does more.  He had a few shaky moments last night but considering the recent workload it is understandable.  

Mitts is the whipping boy of the roster right now.  His hockey instincts fail him a lot.  Even when he works hard it is not always on the correct things. 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Good win but this “kind of goaltending” would be impossible to sustain in the playoffs. UPL was absolute riddled with pucks in the third period. 21 SOG in one period is absolutely unsustainable for a goalie, especially if they’re playing every other day. UPL fended off 17 SOG in the 3rd period of the Aves game. In the last two games he started, he faced 84 SOG. 
 

there is no way this team survives the first round if they got into the playoffs. 
 

UPL did play outstanding and hopefully he is turning the corner. Time will tell 🤞

You just had to throw in the playoffs?   There is a long hill to climb.  If they climb it and do make the playoffs, they will be better by just having been through that journey.  The playoffs are another level, and they have to get to it.  They will learn a lot about what they need on this team, and from themselves, just to advance.  

The expectation of a bottom seed winning one round is low for just about any team.  It happens on occasion (Montreal beat the Leaves a few years ago).  

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

In the end though, all that matters is what the teams in front of us do.

The Sabres can't control that though.  Just win and the rest will take care of itself.

[Doohicksie]

50 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Well if we had Reeves that check on Loosh would have never ever happened. Reeves instills fear to even check an opponent hard. True story.

[Doohicksie]

46 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Here is a strategy - Win a face-off cleanly, have a defenseman hit a crisp breakout pass to a forward and head man the puck at least to center ice, then you can change a few players and maybe get a better look at the net.    

For tonight, who do you play with Power and Joker out?  A tired 23 and 26 has still better than a rested 46, 38, 45, and 20.  

And for the record, they did get a forward line change in toward the end by getting the puck to the neutral zone.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

But it was explained why. after the explanation you are still asking why.

 

why? 😂

Similarly:  why post this?  Why take small-minded, mean-spirited, boring shots at other posters?  Why not just enjoy the win and talk hockey?  Why do you keep doing this?  What is the point?