Is Kevyn Adams doing anything?

[Thorner]

19 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

To be perfectly honest I don’t think KA failed with the acquisition of defensive depth but rather the defensive depth failed to live up to expectations.

To start the year we had

Muel - Dahlin

Power - Jokiharju 

Bryson - Bush

Some were unsure about Jokiharju and Bryson had been all over the place the past couple years but they were both seemingly growing and NHL defensemen. Jokiharju has done better since the preseason but has been injured twice now. Bryson has done exactly what he did last year and his year prior; show great defensive prowess with skating and puck handling then suddenly implode at any need of spot filling a Top 4 and then he just spirals.

Depth wise we had a mix of NHL experience in Clague and to a lesser degree Pilut along with a potentially solid #7 in Fitzgerald who had impressed last year.

Acquiring depth is not as simple as signing guys; they must be ok with playing in the AHL for significant stretches and not make a fuss. Fitzgerald was automatically going to make the team due to his waiver issue and having shown potential last season in fill-in roles. Otherwise it was seemingly deep at season’s start. Then injuries plagued the group and all the young depth turned into pumpkins. Not just 1, but all 3, which wasn’t likely to say the least. After all, what are the odds we lose 3/4 Dmen within 10 games of the season’s start? In order to see Bryson play and judge his usefulness, he had to play; him sitting as the 7 wouldn’t help KA figure out Bryson at all. On the flip side, while acquiring a better 5-6 Dman would’ve been nice in hindsight; if any of the 3 younger guys starts playing well, where does this vet go? We all saw what happened with Sheahan when we replaced him. Managing a roster is more than just plugging players into spots; it also is the relationships you create with the players and their agents by extension. 

It wasn’t a seemingly deep D at season’s start, though. Plenty of people pointed out beforehand, not in hindsight, that depth could be an issue. 

“The additions were fine. They just didn’t play as well as we expected they would” as a valid defence would sort of eliminate all ability to evaluate the gm, no? As long as he gets guys he THINKS will be good, he’s in the clear? Kinda a low bar. Unless the performance of these guys dropped off the map like say maybe a Hall, I think we can say the output of the D thus far has been more less reflective of the group assembled 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It wasn’t a seemingly deep D at season’s start, though. Plenty of people pointed out beforehand, not in hindsight, that depth could be an issue. 

“The additions were fine. They just didn’t play as well as we expected they would” as a valid defence would sort of eliminate all ability to evaluate the gm, no? As long as he gets guys he THINKS will be good, he’s in the clear? Kinda a low bar. Unless the performance of these guys dropped off the map like say maybe a Hall, I think we can say the output of the D thus far has been more less reflective of the group assembled 

I meant the young D, I’d imagine most of us thought Fitzgerald would be a fine 7th Dman and Bryson could handle a bottom pair role admirably. Instead Fitzgerald and Bryson have taken turns being the common denominator in most GAs at 5v5

 

I guess in a sense I’m not saying he didn’t fail as much as I’m unsure how he could succeeded in both adequately playing 6 NHL certain level defenseman and still garner the needed viewing of the 3 Dmen involved presently. You can count on injuries to occur but never to what extent. Plus hoping your starters get hurt so you can’t figure out more about you 7/8 Dmen just sounds wrong.

Edited December 15, 2022 by thewookie1

[Marvin]

21 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It wasn’t a seemingly deep D at season’s start, though. Plenty of people pointed out beforehand, not in hindsight, that depth could be an issue. 

“The additions were fine. They just didn’t play as well as we expected they would” as a valid defence would sort of eliminate all ability to evaluate the gm, no? As long as he gets guys he THINKS will be good, he’s in the clear? Kinda a low bar. Unless the performance of these guys dropped off the map like say maybe a Hall, I think we can say the output of the D thus far has been more less reflective of the group assembled 

I think GMKA wanted to see what our bottom 4 D could do and see if any develop.  As of now, only Clague has shown promise, but having 2 of them on the bottom pair has been a disaster.  That's why none of them should be more than #7 on the depth chart for a playoff team.

[Berg]

8 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

This is sooooo wrong.    Lack of depth on d is the primary reason 

The game with the Kings showed that the team plays with more confidence and shows results when they do not concede stupid goals due to goalkeeping mistakes.

[Berg]

10 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

I don’t know what to say except that he wants to evaluate talent this year including upl 🤷‍♂️

We have been evaluating talent for 12 years, while others achieve results in a couple of years or in the first year.

I generally like the new management, but the fact that we have not had a good goalkeeper for several years spoils all the achievements. Anderson, at 41, plays better than any of our young goalkeepers.

[sabresouth]

1 hour ago, Berg said:

We have been evaluating talent for 12 years, while others achieve results in a couple of years or in the first year.

I generally like the new management, but the fact that we have not had a good goalkeeper for several years spoils all the achievements. Anderson, at 41, plays better than any of our young goalkeepers.

The NJ Devils are a prime example.  They last made the playoffs in 17-18. They have been in the toilet with us the past three seasons. They are currently second in the league this year. It can be done.

Edited December 15, 2022 by sabresouth

[Crusader1969]

4 hours ago, Berg said:

The game with the Kings showed that the team plays with more confidence and shows results when they do not concede stupid goals due to goalkeeping mistakes.

The first 30 mins against the kings they had 6 shots on net.   Lucky they got a 5 on 3 and scored which made the kings open up a bit, which allowed the Sabres to skate

Id love for people who are saying he needs to bring in a new goalie give us an example of who they should target    And how much are you going to give up , knowing Comrie will be back soon enough 

 

[Pimlach]

15 hours ago, Berg said:

This team is ready for the playoffs and the only reason we're behind on points is because Adams didn't get a good goaltender.  Even if Tokarski had stayed, it wouldn't have been so bad.  But we don't have that either.

Tokarski?  😂 

[Sidc3000]

9 hours ago, Berg said:

We have been evaluating talent for 12 years, while others achieve results in a couple of years or in the first year.

I generally like the new management, but the fact that we have not had a good goalkeeper for several years spoils all the achievements. Anderson, at 41, plays better than any of our young goalkeepers.

I think Adams isn’t going to go out and get a big name goalie. I think he hoped that Comrie/UPL would be a good stopgap until the can see if Levi could develop into a NHL level goalie quickly. 

[Berg]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Tokarski?  😂 

He is better than UPL

2 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

I think Adams isn’t going to go out and get a big name goalie. I think he hoped that Comrie/UPL would be a good stopgap until the can see if Levi could develop into a NHL level goalie quickly. 

Ok) let's wait another 5 years)

[Berg]

8 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

The first 30 mins against the kings they had 6 shots on net.   Lucky they got a 5 on 3 and scored which made the kings open up a bit, which allowed the Sabres to skate

Id love for people who are saying he needs to bring in a new goalie give us an example of who they should target    And how much are you going to give up , knowing Comrie will be back soon enough 

 

I'm not a scout and I'm not on the coaching staff to give examples. Everyone should do what they are paid to do.

It is obvious to everyone that we have problems in defense and on the gate, which do not allow us to count on the playoffs.

If our defense is progressing and showing promise, then there is a problem with goalkeepers. We gave away everyone and did not really take anyone.

If Anderson gets injured, then there is no one to put on at all, and even a blind man can see it.

[Pimlach]

13 minutes ago, Berg said:

He is better than UPL

He might very well be right now.  But UPL is still a prospect they prefer to work with.  
 

 

[Sidc3000]

50 minutes ago, Berg said:

He is better than UPL

Ok) let's wait another 5 years)

Well, at the moment, Adams is in no rush. He’s convinced the Pegula’s and the fan base that the need time to evaluate and develop the young players. That bought adams about 3 years which will be after next season. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

One thing KA can do is make Clague the 7th D.  Every time I’ve seen him play he makes much better decisions with the puck then either Pilut or Fitzgerald.  I still don't think he is a long-term answer or even a medium term answer, but he looks like the best of a sorry lot.  

[LGR4GM]

12 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Well, at the moment, Adams is in no rush. He’s convinced the Pegula’s and the fan base that the need time to evaluate and develop the young players. That bought adams about 3 years which will be after next season. 

3 seasons is correct. 

Last season was: tear down and see who actually is the core

This season is: double checking that core, allowing development, figuring out where we need to add

Next season will be: playoffs and winning because that is the next step and challenge

With that said, it doesn't preclude this season from having playoffs or winning. It is just year 2 of Adams rebuild (not year 3 as many want to claim). 

[Sidc3000]

47 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

3 seasons is correct. 

Last season was: tear down and see who actually is the core

This season is: double checking that core, allowing development, figuring out where we need to add

Next season will be: playoffs and winning because that is the next step and challenge

With that said, it doesn't preclude this season from having playoffs or winning. It is just year 2 of Adams rebuild (not year 3 as many want to claim). 

I think year three is winning consistently (on both side of the puck) vs shooting for the playoffs for Adams. Obviously winning consistently should put you in a better position to make the playoffs but I think Adams would be happy with being on the bubble. 
 

If Thompson continues riding his rocket ship to the stars & the team wins consistently on both sides of the puck along with showing organizational stability, that will go along way for Adams to court higher end players. 

[LGR4GM]

22 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I think year three is winning consistently (on both side of the puck) vs shooting for the playoffs for Adams. Obviously winning consistently should put you in a better position to make the playoffs but I think Adams would be happy with being on the bubble. 
 

If Thompson continues riding his rocket ship to the stars & the team wins consistently on both sides of the puck along with showing organizational stability, that will go along way for Adams to court higher end players. 

I do not believe for a second that Adams would be happy being a playoff bubble team next season. 

[Mango]

On 12/14/2022 at 3:28 PM, PerreaultForever said:

I think maybe the title of this thread causes a lot of disagreement. The word "anything" and it's implication that he has done "nothing" are obviously too absolute and extreme and thus easily argued against. 

Yes, picking up Jost is "something" and signing Anderson is also "something" but the real point of contention is whether or not he is doing enough or if he is missing opportunities because really picking up Jost off waivers is a pretty low bar for accomplishments.

The real title I think should be: Is Kevyn Adams doing enough?

 

 

Great points. 

I think Kevyn Adams is better than our GM's the last decade. But I am unsure if he is good enough to get us over the hump. We are scoring a million goals per night, imagine the conversations around this team with Shesterkin. Adams certainly has a window to strike at the moment.

So much conversation in this thread about next year, at the risk of sounding too shortsighted, what about this year? Certainly you want to make the right move, not just any move. And I am not sold on Demko at the moment. But also...we are scoring in bunches and missing the playoffs would be a disappointment. 

[Sidc3000]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I do not believe for a second that Adams would be happy being a playoff bubble team next season. 

Would that show the team has progress? Yes especially if the season remains closer to the bottom than the top. that would show his plan is progressing at a steady pace.

Obviously that could change if this season continue to progress quicker than expected. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Sidc3000 said:

Would that show the team has progress? Yes especially if the season remains closer to the bottom than the top. that would show his plan is progressing at a steady pace.

Obviously that could change if this season continue to progress quicker than expected. 

No, missing the playoffs next year would show me the team has not progressed. 

[Refuting]

They've identified everything they needed to identify this year. They know what the problems are, too. 

They better make the playoffs next year 

No excuses 

[Sidc3000]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

No, missing the playoffs next year would show me the team has not progressed. 

That is your opinion but we don’t know if it’s Adams.  We’ve said that for a few years but it hasn’t happened. They have remained at the bottom of the standings. If they move up to the middle of the standings but just miss the playoffs is literal progress.  

[Pimlach]

16 hours ago, Berg said:

He is better than UPL

 

What did you think of UPL last night? 

He has had a few strong games, and few klunkers.  Sometimes UPL plays with good technique (last night) and other times he is a sloppy mess.  It is well worth playing him over a guy like Tokarski.  Goalies take a while.   

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

That is your opinion but we don’t know if it’s Adams.  We’ve said that for a few years but it hasn’t happened. They have remained at the bottom of the standings. If they move up to the middle of the standings but just miss the playoffs is literal progress.  

They finished last year at 9th worse or 24th overall. This year they are currently hovering around 11th or 12th worse so they are basically a stone's throw away from being a bubble team and I would argue are there. SO no, in my opinion if Adams thinks being a bubble team next year is progress he is wrong and it is not. 

[Crusader1969]

Any word on Power? 
 

If he is out for more than a few days, we have reached condition critical.   Not the best time to make a trade but something has to happen 

there is no way you can keep your head above water if your D is Bryson, Pilut, Clague, Fitz, Samuelsson and Dahlin.   And god forbid someone else gets hurt -I can’t imagine who’s next in line 

Clague looked uncomfortable after that hit last night, he could have to miss a couple of games