Is Kevyn Adams doing anything?

[PerreaultForever]

I think maybe the title of this thread causes a lot of disagreement. The word "anything" and it's implication that he has done "nothing" are obviously too absolute and extreme and thus easily argued against. 

Yes, picking up Jost is "something" and signing Anderson is also "something" but the real point of contention is whether or not he is doing enough or if he is missing opportunities because really picking up Jost off waivers is a pretty low bar for accomplishments.

The real title I think should be: Is Kevyn Adams doing enough?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

Do you think KA paces his office nervously thinking about how many years the Sabres have missed the playoffs? I bet he doesn’t.
The only thing that he is concerned about is how many years they have missed the playoffs since he has been the general manager. As it should be. And even the first year that he was the GM, there was no false misconception that the Sabres should be making the playoffs or that it was even a goal at that time. he’s not thinking like a disgruntled Sabres fan who has lived through the decade of no playoffs. And he shouldn’t be. for me… When somebody brings up the fact that we have not made the playoffs in a decade, and pair that up with comments about Kevin Adams. It loses all credibility for me.

And even talking about how the Sabres haven’t made the playoffs since KA has been the GM, well we’ve gone through that so much as to why that is. At least the honest logical discussions have IMO.

I'm going to disagree.  The fact that the team hasn't made the playoffs in a decade has created a disgruntled and disenchanted fanbase.  This has led to terrible attendance and significant loss of revenue to the franchise.  My guess TP has some significant $ limitations on KA because of the lack of revenue.  The sooner KA gets this team back to the playoffs the quicker he solves improves attendance and the team's revenue.  So yes he is very cognizant of the team's recent history.

The question is will that change how he does his job?  It hasn't.  He is still wait and see mode, aka "another development year," until he changes to win now mode the team won't be making the playoffs. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Quinn and JJ Peterka had a total of three NHL games between them and Dylan Cozens was being compared to Zemgus in terms of development by some people on this board.

Yup. And old habits seem to die hard because Cozens’ production isn’t being called out often enough for what it is: production that of a 1st liner. 

KA won.

It’s over.

The “development year” lingo I so despise was the correct play: this year identified the core, and not by default (the key point). It was the correct strategy, in hindsight, because it was clearly useful in identifying said core - I can’t argue it wasn’t worth approaching the season this way, when it had produced so much valuable, workable information. 

Congratulations, Kevyn Adams. Congratulations, fellow Sabres fans. Our GM is certifiably competent, he has, I believe now to a certainty, come up with a no-bones-about-it, *good* plan. 

This offseason we start the trial of whether or not he’s just a good GM, full stop. Does he get this team to the next level, the one half the league’s teams makes: the playoffs. 

If he passes that test, we can see if he’s got what it takes to be a great one. 

For now, I’m confident in saying: we have a GM. We don’t have a Tim Botterill. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, sabresouth said:

We have missed the playoffs for ten straight years. This fact requires that KA needs to have some urgency with this rebuild. That means deviating from "the plan" when necessary.  I'm not talking about going out and doing something stupid or anything. But we have a ton of cap space and more potential talent coming up than we have room for.  I believe if KA would have been just a little more aggressive these past couple of off-seasons, we would be in the hunt for the playoffs this year. But since KA is rigid in "sticking to the plan" we get to "wait till next year ". Kinda getting old. I know, patience. 

No it doesn't. Especially since this was the main argument in 2015 after missing 4 years. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Again:  no NHL GM -- let alone the GM of a rebuilding team -- would trade what could very easily be the #8 overall pick in a deep draft -- i.e. a player like Quinn -- plus a very good prospect who was #14 overall last year, for Demko (who, btw, has been a starter for all of 2 seasons and is currently recovering from a significant injury).  Not making a foolish deal like that is not "shopping at Bargain Mart."  It's just avoiding a foolish move.

And citing TM's trade of #21 overall for Lehner doesn't help your argument -- it hurts it.  Lehner was a washout with the Sabres and TM was a disaster.

Honestly I don’t think Murray trading a 1st hurts, or hinders his argument. There’s a ton of context at play: notably, that Adams moves *in general* speak to aptitude, whereas Murray’s moves did not. Murray didn’t perform well then get burned when he tried to deal a pick for a player. The *majority* of his moves reflected poor aptitude. That is to say, Murray’s dealing of a first failed more because of his poor evaluation, and poor decision making ie WHEN to make the trade (which I things goes with your point), than it did because it’s no bueno full stop to trade a first for a goalie. 

The time wasn’t last offseason, again to your point, but I trust Adams to deal a 1st to supplement the position going forward. It’s just a completely different situation to Murray, now (again, to your point, I think)

[LGR4GM]

25 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm going to disagree.  The fact that the team hasn't made the playoffs in a decade has created a disgruntled and disenchanted fanbase.  This has led to terrible attendance and significant loss of revenue to the franchise.  My guess TP has some significant $ limitations on KA because of the lack of revenue.  The sooner KA gets this team back to the playoffs the quicker he solves improves attendance and the team's revenue.  So yes he is very cognizant of the team's recent history.

The question is will that change how he does his job?  It hasn't.  He is still wait and see mode, aka "another development year," until he changes to win now mode the team won't be making the playoffs. 

Lol, how bad do you wish Botteril was the GM?

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Levi is watching closely.  Trading for Demko could make him rethink signing.  I wouldn’t do a thing, if I was GMKA, with the goaltending before Levi signs 

I would however , find another nhl level Dman immediately 

 

I sure hope you are wrong.  Any top prospect that is afraid to compete for NHL the job could be lacking what it takes to be a top NHL player to begin with.   Levi should probably know, and should be told, that he will get a shot at making the NHL team - but that the AHL affiliate in Rochester is a great place to start his professional career. The kid has been working at this his whole life - he knows what paths are commonly used.  Spending time in Rochester is not a bad thing.  

 

I believe these are honest and realistic conversations that should happen.   

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Lol, how bad do you wish Botteril was the GM?

What? This may be the ..... post you have ever made.  Right up there with Bush is as good as Marino.  

What does my post have anything to do with Jbot?  I just want the GM to do his job and fix the defense.  So does everyone else here.  The only difference is I think repairs can be made now and not wait again til next year after this season is lost  Again where does Jbot fit into that equation? In fact I leveled the same criticism at Jbot.  Remember I'm the person who started all the Jbot do something already threads.  

You can Jbot, Jbot, Jbot and your beating the dead horse all you want, but we are on schedule, as @matter2003 pointed out, to be the first team in 100 years to miss the playoffs after leading the NHL in scoring.  That will be a pretty sad piece of history.  Is that really what you want?

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I sure hope you are wrong.  Any top prospect that is afraid to compete for NHL the job could belacking what it takes to be a top NHL player to begin with.   Levi should probably know, and should be told, that he will get a shot at making the NHL team - but that the AHL affiliate in Rochester is a great place to start his professional career. The kid has been working at this his whole life - he knows what paths are commonly used.  Spending time in Rochester is not a bad thing.  

 

I believe these are honest and realistic conversations that should happen.   

 

 

Levi resisted the urge to turn pro last year because he wanted to develop his game more in the NCAA. He is not dominating the goalie stats like he did last year but I suspect the team is weaker.

Maybe he can make the jump to the NHL but he seems like an intelligent kid that wants to feel comfortable before taking the next step. His contemporary, Spencer Knight, spent a short amount of time in the AHL. I suspect Levi may get some NHL games this year but that he and the Sabres will expect him to be in Rochester next year.

[Thorner]

I’d honestly be shocked if we led the league in goals and missed. One of those will break 

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Levi resisted the urge to turn pro last year because he wanted to develop his game more in the NCAA. He is not dominating the goalie stats like he did last year but I suspect the team is weaker.

Maybe he can make the jump to the NHL but he seems like an intelligent kid that wants to feel comfortable before taking the next step. His contemporary, Spencer Knight, spent a short amount of time in the AHL. I suspect Levi may get some NHL games this year but that he and the Sabres will expect him to be in Rochester next year.

They just can’t willingly forgo a significant G upgrade to spare his feelings, tho 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Honestly I don’t think Murray trading a 1st hurts, or hinders his argument. There’s a ton of context at play: notably, that Adams moves *in general* speak to aptitude, whereas Murray’s moves did not. Murray didn’t perform well then get burned when he tried to deal a pick for a player. The *majority* of his moves reflected poor aptitude. That is to say, Murray’s dealing of a first failed more because of his poor evaluation, and poor decision making ie WHEN to make the trade (which I things goes with your point), than it did because it’s no bueno full stop to trade a first for a goalie. 

The time wasn’t last offseason, again to your point, but I trust Adams to deal a 1st to supplement the position going forward. It’s just a completely different situation to Murray, now (again, to your point, I think)

This is reasonable.  OTOH, if someone cites prior experience X in support of proposed move Y, and X was actually a train wreck, I think it's fair to say that citing X hurts the argument holistically, even if X can be logically distinguished from Y based on a number of factors.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yes.

/thread

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I’d honestly be shocked if we led the league in goals and missed. One of those will break 

They just can’t willingly forgo a significant G upgrade to spare his feelings, tho 

If a good goalie is available KA should try and get him. Anderson probably doesn’t return, UPL may never be an NHLer and Comrie is an unknown.

I want Levi to be the guy but we know how that can turn out. If he is the guy, letting him adjust to the pro game in Rochester is a good thing and he can step up and compete with ??? when he is ready.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

If a good goalie is available KA should try and get him. Anderson probably doesn’t return, UPL may never be an NHLer and Comrie is an unknown.

I want Levi to be the guy but we know how that can turn out. If he is the guy, letting him adjust to the pro game in Rochester is a good thing and he can step up and compete with ??? when he is ready.

Anderson will never be gone. Not as long as those who remain here are loyal to him.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Levi is watching closely.  Trading for Demko could make him rethink signing.  I wouldn’t do a thing, if I was GMKA, with the goaltending before Levi signs 

I would however , find another nhl level Dman immediately 

 

Levi believes in himself.

Can't see him staying in school an extra year, literally likely costing himself at least a couple $MM by being an extra year removed from hitting RFA & UFA status because another goalie is in house (especially if Comrie goes out the door as was the original proposal).  And if that WOULD cause him to bail, do we really want to see him in town?

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, sabresouth said:

We have missed the playoffs for ten straight years. This fact requires that KA needs to have some urgency with this rebuild. That means deviating from "the plan" when necessary.  I'm not talking about going out and doing something stupid or anything. But we have a ton of cap space and more potential talent coming up than we have room for.  I believe if KA would have been just a little more aggressive these past couple of off-seasons, we would be in the hunt for the playoffs this year. But since KA is rigid in "sticking to the plan" we get to "wait till next year ". Kinda getting old. I know, patience. 

As frustrating as being a Sabres fan under the Pegulas tenure has been, and as much money the Sabres are losing by still being on the outside looking in, AND as much money as this kid has thrown away going to games during all of it; there is no blanking way, at THIS POINT in season, that Adams should be developing a "sense of urgency."  Just don't see any way by getting urgent that he doesn't give up significantly more than he should for whatever gets brought in. 

Yes, the 1st line is made up of guys IN their prime & understand the fear that by the time things turn around they'll be waning.  But the 2nd line (& they're playing like a TRUE 2nd line barely in their 20s, NOBODY saw THAT coming, not just surviving but actually thriving) will nearly definitely still be waxing & there are a lot of highly rated prospects that should be ascending too.  The key D still aren't at their prime yet either.  Really don't want to see Adams squander a bunch of future to TRY to just sneak them into the playoffs this year.

And really expect the switch flips to winning being the goal this offseason.  If it doesn't, will be ticked.  But will cross that bridge when we get there.

[Berg]

On 12/11/2022 at 6:45 PM, Sidc3000 said:

I’m sure he’s keeping in touch with the other teams but he’s not in a rush to do anything at this point. He knows this team isn’t a playoff team and don’t want to get anyone’s hopes up. At the moment they have buy-in  from the players to the owners. He will do some moves in the offseason (nothing crazy because he’s not going to be picking from the cream of the crop). I worry that he’s holding out hope that he’s capture lightning in a bottle for a second time and Levi will develop quickly once he’s done with college. 

This team is ready for the playoffs and the only reason we're behind on points is because Adams didn't get a good goaltender.  Even if Tokarski had stayed, it wouldn't have been so bad.  But we don't have that either.

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What? This may be the ..... post you have ever made.  Right up there with Bush is as good as Marino.  

What does my post have anything to do with Jbot?  I just want the GM to do his job and fix the defense.  So does everyone else here.  The only difference is I think repairs can be made now and not wait again til next year after this season is lost  Again where does Jbot fit into that equation? In fact I leveled the same criticism at Jbot.  Remember I'm the person who started all the Jbot do something already threads.  

You can Jbot, Jbot, Jbot and your beating the dead horse all you want, but we are on schedule, as @matter2003 pointed out, to be the first team in 100 years to miss the playoffs after leading the NHL in scoring.  That will be a pretty sad piece of history.  Is that really what you want?

I want to win the Stanley Cup. 

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Anderson will never be gone. Not as long as those who remain here are loyal to him.

I see what you did there

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What? This may be the ..... post you have ever made.  Right up there with Bush is as good as Marino.  

What does my post have anything to do with Jbot?  I just want the GM to do his job and fix the defense.  So does everyone else here.  The only difference is I think repairs can be made now and not wait again til next year after this season is lost  Again where does Jbot fit into that equation? In fact I leveled the same criticism at Jbot.  Remember I'm the person who started all the Jbot do something already threads.  

You can Jbot, Jbot, Jbot and your beating the dead horse all you want, but we are on schedule, as @matter2003 pointed out, to be the first team in 100 years to miss the playoffs after leading the NHL in scoring.  That will be a pretty sad piece of history.  Is that really what you want?

I'll keep posting the dead horse beating you're doing as long as you keep posting day in day out that Adams hasn't done anything which continues to be factually bull hockey. 

[Refuting]

He's doing something. Do more 

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

I’d honestly be shocked if we led the league in goals and missed. One of those will break 

They just can’t willingly forgo a significant G upgrade to spare his feelings, tho 

Once Comrie comes back we'll be better and the offense will slow a little but Florida kept up their goal scoring torrent last season so I don't see why we can't. Biggest thing is learning to adjust in game like they did against LA.

Just now, Refuting said:

He's doing something. Do more 

Can't until closer to the deadline. Also, in a few more days there will be a trade freeze for the holidays. 

[Sidc3000]

58 minutes ago, Berg said:

This team is ready for the playoffs and the only reason we're behind on points is because Adams didn't get a good goaltender.  Even if Tokarski had stayed, it wouldn't have been so bad.  But we don't have that either.

I don’t know what to say except that he wants to evaluate talent this year including upl 🤷‍♂️

[Hank]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'll keep posting the dead horse beating you're doing as long as you keep posting day in day out that Adams hasn't done anything which continues to be factually bull hockey. 

Ligers not alone in this GA. You've become annoyingly repetitive. Every. Single. Day. You remember that poster drunkard who used to post in the Bills thread up until they established themselves as a good team? Hated everything about the unqualified GM who was brought in by his coach, hated everything about McClappy the bible thumping wrassler, and hated every move the team made. That's who you've become when it comes to Adams. 

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Berg said:

This team is ready for the playoffs and the only reason we're behind on points is because Adams didn't get a good goaltender.  Even if Tokarski had stayed, it wouldn't have been so bad.  But we don't have that either.

This is sooooo wrong.    Lack of depth on d is the primary reason 

[thewookie1]

To be perfectly honest I don’t think KA failed with the acquisition of defensive depth but rather the defensive depth failed to live up to expectations.

To start the year we had

Muel - Dahlin

Power - Jokiharju 

Bryson - Bush

Some were unsure about Jokiharju and Bryson had been all over the place the past couple years but they were both seemingly growing and NHL defensemen. Jokiharju has done better since the preseason but has been injured twice now. Bryson has done exactly what he did last year and his year prior; show great defensive prowess with skating and puck handling then suddenly implode at any need of spot filling a Top 4 and then he just spirals.

Depth wise we had a mix of NHL experience in Clague and to a lesser degree Pilut along with a potentially solid #7 in Fitzgerald who had impressed last year.

Acquiring depth is not as simple as signing guys; they must be ok with playing in the AHL for significant stretches and not make a fuss. Fitzgerald was automatically going to make the team due to his waiver issue and having shown potential last season in fill-in roles. Otherwise it was seemingly deep at season’s start. Then injuries plagued the group and all the young depth turned into pumpkins. Not just 1, but all 3, which wasn’t likely to say the least. After all, what are the odds we lose 3/4 Dmen within 10 games of the season’s start? In order to see Bryson play and judge his usefulness, he had to play; him sitting as the 7 wouldn’t help KA figure out Bryson at all. On the flip side, while acquiring a better 5-6 Dman would’ve been nice in hindsight; if any of the 3 younger guys starts playing well, where does this vet go? We all saw what happened with Sheahan when we replaced him. Managing a roster is more than just plugging players into spots; it also is the relationships you create with the players and their agents by extension.