Is Kevyn Adams doing anything?

[North Buffalo]

The topic for me is not who specifically should Adams go after but in hind sight Husso and Bear adds would have been awesome... its that Adams is meh on moving and being creative without giving up too much eg Bean with the Bills who's nickname is the witch for a reason... Common Adams go visit the witch Doctor...

[sabresouth]

We all can see it, the team can see it. They are playing well enough offensively be a playoff team. They just need a little help. As stated above there are at least defensmen out there. Will they help, not sure but what we got aint working. I just don't want to see the kids get discouraged and give up on the season. That is a bad precedent to set. KA expects them to give 100% every game. I just want KA to give 100%. Maybe he is. It just doesn't feel like it. 

[bob_sauve28]

16 hours ago, Thorny said:

We sort of take on the lingo of whoever the GM is at the time, and their common buzz words become the key/legend for how we expect the given rebuild to proceed: one bit of lingo we used to use that has more/less evaporated into thin air is draft picks as “currency”. It’s still a thing - Adams hasn’t spoken about this really but that’s probably timing. In the past, we may have cashed in too quick. But most any team properly assembled, on NHL ice, is supported by a deep through-line of in-system talent, at one point. We have clearly achieved the deep system bit. 

But over time, as the top side of the Sabres becomes more strong and powerful, the part of the iceberg we see above the surface, the mechanics of that operation become so intensive that it needs more immediate “blood flow”. Whereas the Sabres operation (this rebuild) up until now has been well-sustained by supplementing the ranks below the surface, as immediacy wasn’t required, soon more of that lifeblood needs to be transferred to the big team: the better it gets, the more it needs, but also: the more we can afford to give it. The stronger the roster, the less we need to supplement the “future”, the less served the system is by allocating resources to the “below the surface” portion, the more necessary it is to convert asset to the immediacy the roster demands. The strong NHL roster is actually served just as well by a lesser quantity of pick/prospect asset, as less is required on its face.

This is where draft picks/prospects as currency comes in. There will come a time when the cash needs to flow for sustainability. I think that’s this offseason.

 

The Jokiharju trade is actually a model that would be ok to follow. Young forward for a young defenseman. We do have a lot of young forwards, so even if its Savoie, as long as the return is good, I might trade him or another of our top picks 

 

 

[Pimlach]

He is not doing enough to win right now, but that was not the plan apparently.  He is looking at his home-grown prospects and giving them time to show.  So far Cozens, Quinn, JJP and Power are showing they are real.  

I picked option 3 - I think he is looking at everything and building up a data base of options, but it is hard to say what will trigger a move (aside from the trade deadline when "better deals" might be had).  

Add in that he probably spends time consulting with Pegula.   With Kim out sick he is probably the de facto President of all else related to the team.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He is not doing enough to win right now, but that was not the plan.  He is looking at his home ground prospects and giving them time to show.  So far Cozens, Quinn, JJP and Power are showing they are real.  

I picked option 3 - I think he is looking at everything and building up a data base of options, but it is hard to say what will trigger a move (aside from the trade deadline when "better deals" might be had).  

Add in that he probably spends time consulting with Pegula.   With Kim out sick he is probably the de facto President of all else related to the team.  

However at some point you have to adjust your plan.  Plans aren't written in stone because players develop at different rates (or not at all), circumstances change and a good GM changes with it.  We have one of the top offenses in the NHL.  This is clearly ahead of schedule.  So what.  That should be treated as great news.  Instead it's being treated like it's a problem.  Tage the last 2 games is already trying to do to much because he knows that if they don't score 5 we don't have a chance to win.  The defense because of injuries and poor depth is in shambles.  Your coach can not longer trust the depth D to play a significant role.  The waiting for a prospect to develop into an NHL goalie has failed.  

So we are at a crossroads.  KA can either properly support his team and turn this season into a positive experience or he can flush another season down the drain, continue to instill a losing culture, wasting another year of the prime of the team's quality young players and further alienate the fanbase.  Not surprisingly he is going down the second road. 

I honestly think he is afraid of making a mistake.  Since the solid trades of the old core, he has taken the "value" approach to his acquisitions.  Last year he signed only low cost veterans looking for a place to stay in the NHL.  This season he spent a little more on Comrie and Bush, but really hasn't received any value on those contracts.  His sole in season move to date has been to claim another forward on waivers.   He did try to get experienced goaltending, but was unable to convince the goalies to waive their NTCs to come.  

Sadly to fix the roster issues with his team he is going to have to take a risk.  He is going to have to move some of the forward depth in the organization to secure better depth in goal or on defense or become a much better sale person and learn to convince players with a choice that Buffalo is again a destination and that will include an overpayment or two contract wise.   

Given his inability or unwillingness to deviate from his set plan, at best I think this team is on the verge of being done for the year and won't be playing any meaningful hockey come February for the 12 straight year.  At worst rebuild 3.0 is in danger of already failing because the system doesn't have any close to ready D (ok maybe one if Johnson signs that is a huge if) to build depth from and Levi, while an excellent prospect, may still be 2-3 years from making an NHL impact.  This is not a smart plan.

Also just as a reminder, if we draft successfully and get 2-3 good players from every draft, it can still take 10 years to build a team solely through the draft.  Does that make sense to anyone as a good plan?  All good teams bring in outside help through trades and FA signings.  Many of these acquisitions are key pieces of the puzzle.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[Marvin]

A few things:

I don't think that GMKA values goaltenders the way we do.  He was on a team without a real #1 but had someone get hot at the right time.

It is clear that part of his focus this season is to see if Bryson, Fitzgerald, Pilut, Clague, UPL, and maybe even Subban can become NHL regulars.

He is not trading draft picks or prospects except for better draft picks or prospects because the system lack young depth, particularly at defence.

The fact that the team needs what I think are minor tweaks to become a solid potential playoff team is immaterial.

[sabresouth]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

However at some point you have to adjust your plan.  Plans aren't written in stone because players develop at different rates (or not at all), circumstances change and a good GM changes with it.  We have one of the top offenses in the NHL.  This is clearly ahead of schedule.  So what.  That should be treated as great news.  Instead it's being treated like it's a problem.  Tage the last 2 games is already trying to do to much because he knows that if they don't score 5 we don't have a chance to win.  The defense because of injuries and poor depth is in shambles.  Your coach can not longer trust the depth D to play a significant role.  The waiting for a prospect to develop into an NHL goalie has failed.  

So we are at a crossroads.  KA can either properly support his team and turn this season into a positive experience or he can flush another season down the drain, continue to instill a losing culture, wasting another year of the prime of the team's quality young players and further alienate the fanbase.  Not surprisingly he is going down the second road. 

I honestly think he is afraid of making a mistake.  Since the solid trades of the old core, he has taken the "value" approach to his acquisitions.  Last year he signed only low cost veterans looking for a place to stay in the NHL.  This season he spent a little more on Comrie and Bush, but really hasn't received any value on those contracts.  His sole in season move to date has been to claim another forward on waivers.   He did try to get experienced goaltending, but was unable to convince the goalies to waive their NTCs to come.  

Sadly to fix the roster issues with his team he is going to have to take a risk.  He is going to have to move some of the forward depth in the organization to secure better depth in goal or on defense or become a much better sale person and learn to convince players with a choice that Buffalo is again a destination and that will include an overpayment or two contract wise.   

Given his inability or unwillingness to deviate from his set plan, at best I think this team is on the verge of being done for the year and won't be playing any meaningful hockey come February for the 12 straight year.  At worst rebuild 3.0 is in danger of already failing because the system doesn't have any close to ready D (ok maybe one if Johnson signs that is a huge if) to build depth from and Levi, while an excellent prospect, may still be 2-3 years from making an NHL impact.  This is not a smart plan.

Also just as a reminder, if we draft successfully and get 2-3 good players from every draft, it can still take 10 years to build a team solely through the draft.  Does that make sense to anyone as a good plan?  All good teams bring in outside help through trades and FA signings.  Many of these acquisitions are key pieces of the puzzle.  

Agree 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself. 

[grinreaper]

After reading through this thread I have some observations:

The posters here who use common sense and facts to illuminate their positions put themselves in danger of being pinned down to the point of eliminating any future possibility of backtracking from their positions and no longer will be able to have their choice of previous stated opposing opinions to refute anyone challenging them here. A classic example of leaving your posting responses nebulous and completely free for various interpretations is to adopt what is commonly referred to as "The Tumbleweed Defense". Claim something along the lines of (and I paraphrase) GMKA does nothing to try to fix our immediate problems because just the act of doing so would not fit into the plan. Then, while still on the same thread page, remark that Adams broke some self-imposed restriction on going outside of the plan by making a successful waiver claim on a forward named Jost. Obviously once these opposing positions have been stated, both opinions offer a great opportunity to argue either point. The other advantage for adopting such opinion flexibility is that posters have no need to remember what specific stance they may have had on a particular subject. 

On a further note I heard on The Investigators radio show today that GM Kevyn Adams had some really impressive potential additions to the Sabre's roster. He was choosing to hold them in his back pocket though due to psychological reasons that might affect the team and/or fans. Guest Bob Bray let slip that he knew categorically that a defenseman, described only as "Victor H", was available in a deal with his present team with that team paying 50% of the remaining part of his contract. The immediate hang up  to the deal centers around the Sabre's willingness to give up a 2023 5th round pick. Bray, with the smug attitude typical of a former player who not only was a prolific scorer but harbors confidential knowledge regarding his imminent HOF selection forgot that he was on the air and swore the hosts to secrecy before letting the cat out of the bag. "Adams just recently signed Chris Pronger Jr., who by all accounts coming out of the KHL is ready now to be a first pairing D-Man in the NHL. The icing on the cake though is that Dominik Hasek3, son of you know who, is ready to make the move to NA, take up residence in his dad's old condo and bring his .984 save percentage and .23 GA average to his father's 2nd favored team." The hosts, shaking their heads, asked in disbelief why all of this info has been kept secret? Bob, trying hard not to mispronounce his words explained that GMKA is of the opinion that "every mountain needs a valley and no pain, no gain. Sabre's fans have not suffered enough and a decade of losing is not sufficient to get them to really appreciate the top notch team that we should have in another 3-4 years. Besides, I get a ton of entertainment value from all of the online posters who give me advice on how I can orchestrate a trade for Makar with only our 8th D-Man."

 

 

[Marvin]

46 minutes ago, grinreaper said:

After reading through this thread I have some observations:

The posters here who use common sense and facts to illuminate their positions put themselves in danger of being pinned down to the point of eliminating any future possibility of backtracking from their positions and no longer will be able to have their choice of previous stated opposing opinions to refute anyone challenging them here. A classic example of leaving your posting responses nebulous and completely free for various interpretations is to adopt what is commonly referred to as "The Tumbleweed Defense". Claim something along the lines of (and I paraphrase) GMKA does nothing to try to fix our immediate problems because just the act of doing so would not fit into the plan. Then, while still on the same thread page, remark that Adams broke some self-imposed restriction on going outside of the plan by making a successful waiver claim on a forward named Jost. Obviously once these opposing positions have been stated, both opinions offer a great opportunity to argue either point. The other advantage for adopting such opinion flexibility is that posters have no need to remember what specific stance they may have had on a particular subject. 

On a further note I heard on The Investigators radio show today that GM Kevyn Adams had some really impressive potential additions to the Sabre's roster. He was choosing to hold them in his back pocket though due to psychological reasons that might affect the team and/or fans. Guest Bob Bray let slip that he knew categorically that a defenseman, described only as "Victor H", was available in a deal with his present team with that team paying 50% of the remaining part of his contract. The immediate hang up  to the deal centers around the Sabre's willingness to give up a 2023 5th round pick. Bray, with the smug attitude typical of a former player who not only was a prolific scorer but harbors confidential knowledge regarding his imminent HOF selection forgot that he was on the air and swore the hosts to secrecy before letting the cat out of the bag. "Adams just recently signed Chris Pronger Jr., who by all accounts coming out of the KHL is ready now to be a first pairing D-Man in the NHL. The icing on the cake though is that Dominik Hasek3, son of you know who, is ready to make the move to NA, take up residence in his dad's old condo and bring his .984 save percentage and .23 GA average to his father's 2nd favored team." The hosts, shaking their heads, asked in disbelief why all of this info has been kept secret? Bob, trying hard not to mispronounce his words explained that GMKA is of the opinion that "every mountain needs a valley and no pain, no gain. Sabre's fans have not suffered enough and a decade of losing is not sufficient to get them to really appreciate the top notch team that we should have in another 3-4 years. Besides, I get a ton of entertainment value from all of the online posters who give me advice on how I can orchestrate a trade for Makar with only our 8th D-Man."

 

 

As always, I will believe these additions when I see them.  This smacks of "too good to be true."

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Marvin said:

A few things:

I don't think that GMKA values goaltenders the way we do.  He was on a team without a real #1 but had someone get hot at the right time.

It is clear that part of his focus this season is to see if Bryson, Fitzgerald, Pilut, Clague, UPL, and maybe even Subban can become NHL regulars.

He is not trading draft picks or prospects except for better draft picks or prospects because the system lack young depth, particularly at defence.

The fact that the team needs what I think are minor tweaks to become a solid potential playoff team is immaterial.

Marvin,

I will help him with the first bolded, even though he should already know this. 

No, no, hell no, hell no, probably not, and no way.   Ok KA, take it away from here.  

 

[Marvin]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Marvin,

I will help him with the first bolded, even though he should already know this. 

No, no, hell no, hell no, probably not, and no way.   Ok KA, take it away from here.  

 

You forgot nope, nuh-uh, nah, and seriously?

[thewookie1]

@Thorny Care to elaborate?

[Thorner]

19 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

To be honest, I honestly don't think there's been much in regards goalie choices.

Ullmark was given an equal offer but chose Boston

Husso was traded for a 3rd prior to even reaching UFA, plus it was for the pick 1 choice higher than our 3rd.

Campbell has been a trainwreck

He tried to trade for Matt Murray which was a shot in the dark, that has so far worked for Toronto, but Murray nixed the trade.

 

Statistically goalies haven't been great this year in general and the number of solid goalies are fewer that 32.

No, you can’t just throw in Ullmark to configure a post that seeks to literally let Adams off the hook for failing to find a goalie in 3 years. As if that covers it. No one else possible, right? 

Adams clearly should have beaten Boston’s offer for Ullmark, or locked him up to a deal in the months and months they were negotiating prior to Boston joining the fray, PARTICULARLY if the landscape to address GT is as barren as you say. 
 

Being honest, I do buy the argument that KA did the best he could coming into this season. But we aren’t going to sit here and pretend he wouldn’t want a mulligan on Ullmark, he would. Adams, considering it’s now a 3 season period, is responsible for the results in net, full stop, and not merely responsible for giving it a good effort 

He’s done great in other areas 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

@Thorny Care to elaborate?

Was already on it lol 

[thewookie1]

Just now, Thorny said:

No, you can just throw in Ullmark to configure a post that seeks to literally let Adams off the hook for failing to find a goalie in 3 years. As if that covers it. No on else possible, right? 

Adams clearly should have beaten Boston’s offer for Ullmark, or locked him up to a deal in the months and months they were negotiating prior to Boston joining the fray, PARTICULARLY if the landscape to address GT is as barren as you say. 
 

Being honest, I do buy the argument that KA did the best he could coming into this season. But we aren’t going to sit here and pretend he wouldn’t want a mulligan on Ullmark, he would. Adams, considering it’s now a 3 season period, of responsible for the results it net, full stop, and not merely an effort 

On Ullmark, I wouldn’t have given 7mil for 6 years. Especially back then where he came off a 3rd or 4th straight season where he got hurt and missed significant time. As they say, hindsight is 20/20 and he’s thrived in Boston after a year there.

Also, I don’t excuse him from not figuring out a better goalie situation but I do understand that this past offseason was a barren landscape in terms of options.

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, Marvin said:

A few things:

I don't think that GMKA values goaltenders the way we do.  He was on a team without a real #1 but had someone get hot at the right time.

It is clear that part of his focus this season is to see if Bryson, Fitzgerald, Pilut, Clague, UPL, and maybe even Subban can become NHL regulars.

He is not trading draft picks or prospects except for better draft picks or prospects because the system lack young depth, particularly at defence.

The fact that the team needs what I think are minor tweaks to become a solid potential playoff team is immaterial.

Bolded worries me a tad. Believe it’s something @Taro T has touched on, too

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

On Ullmark, I wouldn’t have given 7mil for 6 years. Especially back then where he came off a 3rd or 4th straight season where he got hurt and missed significant time. As they say, hindsight is 20/20 and he’s thrived in Boston after a year there.

Also, I don’t excuse him from not figuring out a better goalie situation but I do understand that this past offseason was a barren landscape in terms of options.

Fair enough. We aren’t that far apart on it. 
 

The hindsight thing is true to an extent, that’s why I always like to base it on a reasonable time period. It’s hard to hold a gm accountable for any 1 move or lack thereof, without knowing all the context. This is why it’s better to say, to expect an addressing of the position over a reasonable time frame- ie in the end results must be expected as that’s the job, and that while any 1 move has a hindsight component, it would defy logic to suggest one avenue for success couldn’t have been found and completed over the course of the full time frame. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Thorny

[Zamboni]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

On Ullmark, I wouldn’t have given 7mil for 6 years. Especially back then where he came off a 3rd or 4th straight season where he got hurt and missed significant time. As they say, hindsight is 20/20 and he’s thrived in Boston after a year there.

Also, I don’t excuse him from not figuring out a better goalie situation but I do understand that this past offseason was a barren landscape in terms of options.

For me, I wouldn’t have given Ullmark anything longer than 4 years. And no higher than 4 mil per. I just wasn’t confident in his abilities. 

[spndnchz]

Never show your hand is my motto

[LTS]

18 hours ago, sabresouth said:

Your points are valid. We are debating hypotheticals. There is no way to know how things might be different.  Just looking at this season though. If we had a true number one goalie, I believe we would be in the playoff hunt right now.  And after this  long playoff drought we are just frustrated that a known position of need was not addressed for this season. I felt like before the season started we could be a playoff potential team with a goalie upgrade. So if I as just a fan could see that than why couldn't KA?

And that always comes back to who?  Who was the upgrade?  I feel like all options have been debated and reasonably shown to not have been possible. Perhaps Husso, but no one knows if it was possible, just that the Sabres did not get him. Ullmark's name is thrown around and until this season was not the starter, did not have these numbers, and routinely was injured. No one would have projected Ullmark to be this, and if he was injured, then people would be complaining that the Sabres did not have ANOTHER goalie.

[dudacek]

I think it’s strange that our goaltending struggles are being pinned on Adams as sins of omission, when quite clearly they are sins of commission.

It’s not that Adams chose not to address the crease; he quite clearly targeted Eric Comrie as his best available option, then went out and signed him with the idea that he could progress into a viable starter with Anderson as his support and safety net. Meanwhile UPL would get the reps needed to grow into his own in the AHL until his play allowed him to take over from Andy and challenge Eric for the starter’s role.

That looks to me a lot less like an unwillingness to “get a real starter” and more like a misreading of what Comrie and Luukkonen are actually capable of.

This comes on the heels of underestimating Linus Ullmark’s ability and/or market value (a failure he apparently shares with a lot of Sabrespacers)

Personally, I’m not certain I’ve seen enough to judge the real Comrie, especially considering he’s only played 3 games with an NHL defence.

But at this point I’m far more skeptical of Adams’ ability to judge goaltenders than I am of his willingness to go get them.

Edited December 13, 2022 by dudacek

[sabresouth]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

And that always comes back to who?  Who was the upgrade?  I feel like all options have been debated and reasonably shown to not have been possible. Perhaps Husso, but no one knows if it was possible, just that the Sabres did not get him. Ullmark's name is thrown around and until this season was not the starter, did not have these numbers, and routinely was injured. No one would have projected Ullmark to be this, and if he was injured, then people would be complaining that the Sabres did not have ANOTHER goalie.

As stated by other posters, this past off-season was relatively baren of good goalies.  And you will have to forgive me as for my memory of the previous two off-seasons. I don't know what was available or not then. I think KA made the mistake of not picking up one earlier when available and now he can't find one. You just can't give KA a free pass on this . He has had three years and this is the best that could possibly be done? I don't think so.

[Brawndo]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think it’s strange that our goaltending struggles are being pinned on Adams as sins of omission, when quite clearly they are sins of commission.

It’s not that Adams chose not to address the crease; he quite clearly targeted Eric Comrie as his best available option, then went out and signed him with the idea that he could progress into a viable starter with Anderson as his support and safety net. Meanwhile UPL would get the reps needed to grow into his own in the AHL until his play allowed him to take over from Andy and challenge Eric for the starter’s role.

That looks to me a lot less like an unwillingness to “get a real starter” and more like a misreading of what Comrie and Luukkonen are actually capable of.

This comes on the heels of underestimating Linus Ullmark’s ability and/or market value (a failure he apparently shares with a lot of Sabrespacers)

Personally, I’m not certain I’ve seen enough to judge the real Comrie, especially considering he’s only played 3 games with an NHL defence.

But at this point I’m far more skeptical of Adams’ ability to judge goaltenders than I am of his willingness to go get them.

Lance Lysowski discussed this on the latest episode of the Maintenance Day Podcast released 

 

“Linus kind of hosed the Sabres with the way those negotiations played out, from what I heard. Linus kind of lead them to believe they were in the drivers seat and were comfortable and then the big offer came in from the Bruins. With that injury history and everything else with the Sabres Plans they were like ewwww, don’t know if we go there with all Ullmark’s Injuries and where they were with development. It’s a tough pill to swallow to watch that guy play in Boston the way He is, but the way Boston Defends, that’s a juggernaut right there.” 

Disclaimer these are Lance Lysowski’s Words not mine.
 

“

[Crusader1969]

I’m sure this has been mentioned but he also tried to trade for Matt Murray as well.  Who seems to be doing his best Jack Campbell impression for the leafs.  Hopefully, he falls apart in the 2nd half just as Campbell did last year 

[Digger]

10 hours ago, Marvin said:

A few things:

I don't think that GMKA values goaltenders the way we do.  He was on a team without a real #1 but had someone get hot at the right time.

 

I wonder if that's a correct statement about Adams value in goalies.  The year that Carolina won the Cup, Martin Gerber was the starter and rookie Cam Ward came in and eventually won the Conn Smythe ...............but as many will remember they never would have beat the Sabres if they didn't have Gerber step in.  So maybe he sees the value in having a strong tandem.....................which we clearly don't have today.