GDT: Sabres at Penguins, Saturday, Dec. 10, 2022, 7 p.m., MSG

[Zamboni]

15 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I don’t thing he’s a blind oblivious idiot. I just think he is up against a wall because no player that is worth a ***** is going to come to the Sabres right now. At least not until they show that the front office is stable and they start winning consistently. After this off season (as long as Terry doesn’t do anything stupid) the league will see that the front office has stabilized. Next year this team has to start winning consistently and playing good on both sides of the puck. If that happens, then you’ll see some decent moves begin to happen. 

Not stable?

Where do you see/think the front office isn’t stable? Or the rest of the league sees the front office as being not stable?

[Sidc3000]

18 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Not stable?

Where do you see/think the front office isn’t stable? Or the rest of the league sees the front office as being not stable?

It hasn’t been stable for 10 years. The Pegulas usually fire the GM and/or the coach in 2-3 years. Why would anyone in the NHL not wait for at least 3 years to see what happens with the front office?

 

The Pegula’s literally fire the whole front office just two years ago. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Sidc3000

[Zamboni]

6 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

It hasn’t been stable for 10 years. The Pegulas usually fire the GM and/or the coach in 2-3 years. Why would anyone in the NHL not wait for at least 3 years to see what happens with the front office?

 

The Pegula’s literally fire the whole front office just two years ago. 

With all the hires and filling out of the staff, I think the front office is more stable than it’s been in 10 years.  And I bet the league (who also changes staff often) sees it the same way. We just see that aspect differently. 

[triumph_communes]

Bad first period tonight and they didn’t have the maturity to overcome it. Getting stifled by the Pens defense and losing backup is pretty sad. Hate to lose to the pens. Shows us why we won’t make the playoffs, still need a few more pieces and maturing to do. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea with all those November and December trades we see in the NHL, Adams sure is not taking part in the raging hot trade market. 

 

why the sarcasm?   What else can I say.?  They lost to a better team.  3-1 was close (yahoo).  We almost tied it up (yahoo).   I can blame the goalposts, the refs, the NHL, Crosby and Letang -  but that has already been covered by others  

I didn’t know our GM had to wait for everyone else to make a trade.  I guess you will be happy with a few token moves at the trade deadline and a possible 80 point finish?   It’s progress right and we get another lottery pick too!  
 

What else did I see?   We played ok at times.  We lost to another backup.  With Joker and Lubyshkin out Dahlin played 30 minutes last night.  Power played 26.  Probably not a sustainable use of our  defenseman.  At least Clagge was an improvement over Pilut.  So on the  positive side,  Clagge could be developing into that solid #8 that we might need for the playoff run of 2030.    

[Ross Rhea]

Two issues I seen the last two nights, no guys with any kind of grit/sandpaper, no clearing the net front and always peeling of checks on the boards, and goaltending theirs was way better.

[Sidc3000]

11 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

With all the hires and filling out of the staff, I think the front office is more stable than it’s been in 10 years.  And I bet the league (who also changes staff often) sees it the same way. We just see that aspect differently. 

I agree that it appears to be a stable and maybe the players have more inside information so we will see. I’m sure people thought the front office was stable with Bots until he got fired, a month after the pegulas publicly supported him. When you do ***** like that, it’s going to cause people in the industry to question how you run your organization 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Sidc3000

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I agree that it appears to be a stable and maybe the players have more inside information so we will see. I’m sure people thought the front office was stable with Bots until he got fired, a month after the pegulas publicly supported him. When you do ***** like that, it’s going to cause people in the industry to question how you run your organization 

Doubt that giving Botterill a "vote of confidence" shortly before canning his arse caused people to question the Pegulas ownership.  That happens all the time.  

Their changing the overriding philosophy of how the planned to reach their goals every 2-3 years - build through FA; no, through a scorched earth tank w/ Regier at the helm; no, Murray & build the Kings East; no, Botterill & the Pens North; no, sack everyone; now THAT probably had something to do w/ outsiders viewing them as confused at best.  😉 

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

why the sarcasm?   What else can I say.?  They lost to a better team.  3-1 was close (yahoo).  We almost tied it up (yahoo).   I can blame the goalposts, the refs, the NHL, Crosby and Letang -  but that has already been covered by others  

I didn’t know our GM had to wait for everyone else to make a trade.  I guess you will be happy with a few token moves at the trade deadline and a possible 80 point finish?   It’s progress right and we get another lottery pick too!  
 

What else did I see?   We played ok at times.  We lost to another backup.  With Joker and Lubyshkin out Dahlin played 30 minutes last night.  Power played 26.  Probably not a sustainable use of our  defenseman.  At least Clagge was an improvement over Pilut.  So on the  positive side,  Clagge could be developing into that solid #8 that we might need for the playoff run of 2030.    

What happens if either Dahlin or Power get hurt? Both of these players are playing unsustainable minutes. 

[Sidc3000]

I also believe that no matter what the plan is, if Adams doesn’t start put ***** in the seats next season, he is on the hot seat or the organization is going to be on the market. 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

What happens if either Dahlin or Power get hurt? Both of these players are playing unsustainable minutes. 

If they get hurt it’s more minutes for the rest.  
 

Dahlin was very noticeable last night.  He played hard. 

[Sidc3000]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What happens if either Dahlin or Power get hurt? Both of these players are playing unsustainable minutes. 

They’re *****, Plain and simple. They don’t have the depth, IN ROCHESTER,  (figure I’d clarify before people start whining about depth elsewhere that is completely unavailable). This already a fragile team on defense. Lose one or both (god forbid Anderson gets hurt too) there will be a lot of losing 

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I also believe that no matter what the plan is, if Adams doesn’t start put ***** in the seats next season, he is on the hot seat or the organization is going to be on the market. 

Adams is not on the hot seat.  He is carrying out the plan.   The plan includes staying at or near the cap floor until such time that the young core is deemed to be ready and are all locked up contractually.   That is my read on this rebuild.  Different than what NJ did and different than Detroit too.  

[Sidc3000]

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Adams is not on the hot seat.  He is carrying out the plan.   The plan includes staying at or near the cap floor until such time that the young core is deemed to be ready and are all locked up contractually.   That is my read on this rebuild.  Different than what NJ did and different than Detroit too.  

True and I agree with what the plan is.  If the seats are as empty next season as it is this season, then he will absolutely be on the hot seat. It’s all about the money at this point for the Pegula’s. This is a sinking ship financially and that is why they fired everyone and had Adams sign scrubs at the league minimum. They know they’re going to need to spend money on the kids eventually to maintain status quo. 

[Sidc3000]

Like @Taro T said, the Pegula’s have been very bi-polar when it comes to “the plan” for this team. If the team doesn’t do well after 2-3 years they scrap that plan and go to the next. The Pegulas know that the team has to win consistently to put ***** back in the seats. If Adams can get the team to win consistently, then it’s on to the next great plan although I’m not really sure what that would be at this point. They have done just w everything. 
 

if Adams isn’t on the hot seat by next season, Granato will be if they don’t become consistent. 
 

maybe the Pegulas have decided to see this plan through, no matter how long it takes. I guess time will tell 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Sidc3000

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

True and I agree with what the plan is.  If the seats are as empty next season as it is this season, then he will absolutely be on the hot seat. It’s all about the money at this point for the Pegula’s. This is a sinking ship financially and that is why they fired everyone and had Adams sign scrubs at the league minimum. They know they’re going to need to spend money on the kids eventually to maintain status quo. 

I don't know the Sabres financial situation.  For most franchises, the profits are made in the playoffs, so they are probably not making money.   Terry wanted "efficient and economic" and that is what we are apparently still doing.  The Pegulas have in the past spent lavishly to the cap upper limit and still had losing teams.  They are avoiding that for now, which seems smart.  

The question most of us have is when will the FO decide to make moves that increase the payroll?  Not this year.  Maybe next year?  Heck, even the TNT hockey crew discussed the pace of this rebuild during the Columbus game.  Everyone can see the team is close but still has some major gaps to fill.  

The majority of the fanbase is numb to all this right now.  They will be back once this franchise comes back to winning but right now the Bills are the toast of the town.   With the talent and skill already on this team, and if a few more prospect hit, this team should someday be very good.  

I have no problem with the plan.  It is painfully slow, maybe slower than it has to be.   But it makes sense if Adams can find the pieces that we need to take the next steps.   We are several steps away from a Cup.    

[Sidc3000]

True most teams make enough to break even at best so I’m not saying turning a profit. With how bad attendance has been this season, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were hemorrhaging money. They have to fill the arena for every game next season or something will have to change. 
 

I’m not against the plan but i am concerned that its too slow. I wonder if it’s slow because Adams can’t find the players he needs to fill holes. I’m just guessing at this point. Just doing some venting. 
 

at least the games are watchable and that may help start bring some fans back to the arena 

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I don't know the Sabres financial situation.  For most franchises, the profits are made in the playoffs, so they are probably not making money.   Terry wanted "efficient and economic" and that is what we are apparently still doing.  The Pegulas have in the past spent lavishly to the cap upper limit and still had losing teams.  They are avoiding that for now, which seems smart.  

The question most of us have is when will the FO decide to make moves that increase the payroll?  Not this year.  Maybe next year?  Heck, even the TNT hockey crew discussed the pace of this rebuild during the Columbus game.  Everyone can see the team is close but still has some major gaps to fill.  

The majority of the fanbase is numb to all this right now.  They will be back once this franchise comes back to winning but right now the Bills are the toast of the town.   With the talent and skill already on this team, and if a few more prospect hit, this team should someday be very good.  

I have no problem with the plan.  It is painfully slow, maybe slower than it has to be.   But it makes sense if Adams can find the pieces that we need to take the next steps.   We are several steps away from a Cup.    

I do have issues with the "plan" from the standpoint our pipeline is not as balanced as I would like to see.  We are thin in defensive prospects vs. forwards.  Our pipeline is thin on what I consider to be power forward type players who play physically vs. too much finesse.  I know some think these kinds of players can be acquired by trade vs. draft, but when?   There are too many holes in the plan IMHO.

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

I do have issues with the "plan" from the standpoint our pipeline is not as balanced as I would like to see.  We are thin in defensive prospects vs. forwards.  Our pipeline is thin on what I consider to be power forward type players who play physically vs. too much finesse.  I know some think these kinds of players can be acquired by trade vs. draft, but when?   There are too many holes in the plan IMHO.

Agree that we are thin on defensive prospects, but I also think you have to draft a player most likely to make the NHL every time you have a quality pick.  Drafting in the NHL is tough enough, forcing a draft pick because of positional needs could lead to leaving amuch better player on the board.  He can always look to trade offensive prospects for defensive prospects (i.e. we traded Nylander for Joker).  

Power forward is a basketball term, in hockey they are rare.   What are they - big strong guys that score?   So, is Tage a power forward?  Is Tuch a power forward?  Is Cozens?   

We have a few bigger forwards in the pipeline, Bloom and Nadeau come to mind, but there is no guarantee that they make it, and if they do they may be more like an Okposso or Girgensons rather than Tuch or Cozens.  

Your final question is the big one that we cannot answer.  Adams said he will make trades when he feels he is improving the team with players that want to be here.  He has expressed concern about "blocking" prospects, and he is also looking at favorable contracts (keeping cap space) to keep his core players.  He has never put out a timeline to my knowledge.