Part of why the Sabres give up so many goals? They are among the worst in the NHL at blocking shots

[matter2003]

Looks like only the Hurricanes block fewer shots per 60 minutes than the Sabres do...

 

This is something they could improve RIGHT NOW that takes no real skill and could improve their goals against.  Can't allow as many goals if the other team can't get their shots through to the net.

 

[Pimlach]

It does indeed take skill to block shots.  That and a whole bunch of bravery and  sacrifice. 

 

Edit - By today's standards he would get a 2 and a 10 for a bad haircut.    

Edited December 7, 2022 by Pimlach

[Thorner]

I’d probably rather not. Win the battle lose the war type stuff w/injuries, potentially. 
 

Playoffs come ‘round all bets are off. For now I’d rather achieve improved results through a dialed in system and goaltending / depth D improvements 

[Weave]

Boosh would play 1 game out of every 10.

Wait…… thats already happening.

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

Boosh would play 1 game out of every 10.

Wait…… thats already happening.

He just needs more padding for ankle and feet. 

 

[Pimlach]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’d probably rather not. Win the battle lose the war type stuff w/injuries, potentially. 
 

Playoffs come ‘round all bets are off. For now I’d rather achieve improved results through a dialed in system and goaltending / depth D improvements 

Probably true in today's day and age.  

This behavior is probably frowned upon too.  Oh well.  

 

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Probably true in today's day and age.  

This behavior is probably frowned upon too.  Oh well.  

 

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/2d708b2e-f845-4fc6-92a8-8efab35e58ef

Edited December 7, 2022 by Thorny

[mphs mike]

I'm sure there are more, but this is the only game I remember where the ejection due to receiving 3 fighting majors came into play

[Curt]

45 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Looks like only the Hurricanes block fewer shots per 60 minutes than the Sabres do...

 

This is something they could improve RIGHT NOW that takes no real skill and could improve their goals against.  Can't allow as many goals if the other team can't get their shots through to the net.

 

Can you show that a higher number of blocked shots has a correlation with winning more games, or with allowing fewer goals?  I’m not convinced that it does.

[Malazan]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

Can you show that a higher number of blocked shots has a correlation with winning more games, or with allowing fewer goals?  I’m not convinced that it does.

This is what that chart shows. The Bottom right shows teams with a high number of blocked shots and a low amount of goals against. There's not many teams there. The bottom left has the most teams who would "block fewer shots and allow fewer goals" so this chart would agree with you. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Malazan

[matter2003]

2 minutes ago, Malazan said:

This is what that chart shows. The Bottom right shows teams with a high number of blocked shots and a low amount of goals against. There's not many teams there. The bottom left has the most teams who would "block fewer shots and allow fewer goals" so this chart would agree with you. 

That is a little deceiving because those teams also allow fewer shots in general, so there aren't as many chances to block them.

[Thorner]

So blocked shots are like hits? You want them if you aren’t good but if you are good you don’t rely on them? 

Ie you are less frequently at the disadvantaged position favourable to racking up those tallies? 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Thorny

[LTS]

In order to block a shot you have to be in position to do so. We've talked about the Sabres defensive zone coverage issues.

Good teams usually don't have to block as many shots because they don't give up as many shots.  Look at things in terms of shot block percentage and not number of shots blocked.  Blocking a high number of shots would indicate that you are giving a high amount of shooting opportunities.

Blocking shots is important, but there's a lot that goes into that number, including skill.

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I’d probably rather not. Win the battle lose the war type stuff w/injuries, potentially. 
 

Playoffs come ‘round all bets are off. For now I’d rather achieve improved results through a dialed in system and goaltending / depth D improvements 

Tampa is a good example of shot blocking in the playoffs. Their final game vs the Leafs everyone was diving in front of shots to protect the lead. They know what it takes to win it all. Toronto’s big 4 lack the sacrificing aspect of playoff hockey and lost once again.

I agree that regular season games won’t get that 100% sacrificing effort all of the time but there needs to be a time to block shots, like protecting a lead late into a game. Teams get a emotional boost from these key blocks.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Tampa is a good example of shot blocking in the playoffs. Their final game vs the Leafs everyone was diving in front of shots to protect the lead. They know what it takes to win it all. Toronto’s big 4 lack the sacrificing aspect of playoff hockey and lost once again.

I agree that regular season games won’t get that 100% sacrificing effort all of the time but there needs to be a time to block shots, like protecting a lead late into a game. Teams get a emotional boost from these key blocks.

Fair enough, but I remember Mitch in particular blocking a big shot to lock up a playoff dub a couple years back - so the Leafs thing could be narrative, at least when it comes to some players within that core 

[French Collection]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Fair enough, but I remember Mitch in particular blocking a big shot to lock up a playoff dub a couple years back - so the Leafs thing could be narrative, at least when it comes to some players within that core 

I’m more of an eye test guy so my recollection of game 7 was of many blocked shots by Tampa. I checked the stats and blocks for that game were 26-13 Tampa.

I realize I have a bias vs the Leafs but moments like Nylander bailing on a 50/50 puck show me that there is not enough of a sacrificing element in that core.

[shrader]

36 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

That is a little deceiving because those teams also allow fewer shots in general, so there aren't as many chances to block them.

Divide both goals and blocks by the number of shots attempted and maybe you'll start to see something.  This one in its current form is pretty much useless.  We're pretty much just seeing a straight vertical line up the middle at the average number of blocks per game.  Personally, I'm amazed at how little variation there is in blocks from team to team.  It's tough to make a "block more shots" argument when pretty much everyone is blocking the same number.

[Taro T]

After watching what happens to Lyubushkin every couple of games am just happy the rest of them don't flamingo.  And after seeing how many pucks got deflected past him, Comrie would probably prefer a bunch of them to not even try to block shots.  😉

Agree w/ those who are saying better D-zone coverage would likely affect not only shots against but also shot blocks.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, mphs mike said:

I'm sure there are more, but this is the only game I remember where the ejection due to receiving 3 fighting majors came into play

There was a game years later where Schoenfeld reminded the referee of the rule when it applied.  It was on Channel 7.

[Doohicksie]

Oddly, it seems that the Sabres lead the league in games missed due to injuries from blocked shots.

[mjd1001]

Sabres are 5th worst in the league overall in goals allowed per game played.

Injuries to D-men had a lot to do with that, the fact they got hit so hard at that position all at once.  BUT, injuries are part of the game, other teams have dealt with that concentration of injuries to the D-unit almost as bad as the Sabres.

-They are 10th worst in shots per game played.

-They are 8th worse in Save percentage.

Obviously both of those are issues that need to be improved on.

-They are 6th worse in Penalty killing.  Get better on the PK, the above numbers also probably get a bit better. Its not that they are short handed a lot either....they are middle of the pack in terms of total time short handed.

As far as goaltending, Comrie and UPL are a big part of it with their performance so far.  Anderson has a .916 save percentage.  Comrie/UPL combined have more games played than Anderon, but their combined Save percentage is .879.  Median in the league is .905 now, so if you want to be even average/median, the UPL/Comrie duo is 26 points behind that.

Finally, plus-minus is not a perfect stat, but it is useful to see where/when you are allowing goals vs scoring them:

-Among forwards, Mitts, Olofsson, and Krebs are a combined -24.  No one else among all the forwards is worse than a -2.....and nine other guys are even or positive.

-Among D-men, Power, Dahling, Jokiharju, and Samuelsson are all positive, a combined +28.  Lybushkin is even.  However, Pilut, Clague, Fitz, and Bryson are all negative and a combined -22.

 

So, what is the low hanging fruit to get this team to allow less goals?  Not needing to give too many minutes to anyone outside of the top 5 d-men....Olofsson, Krebs, and Mitts being better....Comrie/UPL upping their games.... and be better on the PK.   Advanced stats guys can dig deeper into it, but those 4 things are the glaring reasons.

Edited December 7, 2022 by mjd1001

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

It does indeed take skill to block shots.  That and a whole bunch of bravery and  sacrifice. 

 

Edit - By today's standards he would get a 2 and a 10 for a bad haircut.    

The ol Mark Davis 

 

[matter2003]

40 minutes ago, shrader said:

Divide both goals and blocks by the number of shots attempted and maybe you'll start to see something.  This one in its current form is pretty much useless.  We're pretty much just seeing a straight vertical line up the middle at the average number of blocks per game.  Personally, I'm amazed at how little variation there is in blocks from team to team.  It's tough to make a "block more shots" argument when pretty much everyone is blocking the same number.

You seem to be right...looks like part of the Sabres issue is they give up a higher percentage of high quality shots than other teams, even though they are actually very good in shots against, ranking 7th lowest in shots against per game. However, they are 20th in terms of high danger shots per game allowed.

LA - Low Attempts

LQ - Low Quality

HA - High Attempts

HQ - High Quality

Edited December 7, 2022 by matter2003

[French Collection]

21 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

-Among D-men, Power, Dahling, Jokiharju, and Samuelsson are all positive, a combined +28.  Lybushkin is even.  However, Pilut, Clague, Fitz, and Bryson are all negative and a combined -22.

I realize the shortcomings of +/- but wow. Quite the discrepancy.

The top 4 have played a total TOI of 1740 minutes to get to +28.

The bottom 4 have played a total TOI of 861 minutes to get to -22.

I left Boosh and his 261 minutes out as he is even.

If the D can be healthy this team can win a lot more games. Finding better D depth would help too.

[pi2000]

I chalk it up to being a young team.   It's the same with other intangibles like face-offs, line-changes, etc...

It's part of the development process of a young player in the NHL.     They'll get better at it.