Mittelstadt, Olofsson and the 3rd and 4th Lines

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oh FFS, spare me the "it's not a fantasy world" crap. I didn't blame KA for what came before, I blame him for not doing something to plug the holes created in the teardown. Like goaltending. He botched it. The next year he still didn't fix it. That's on him 100%, as is the total lack of depth. There have been players available before Jost that were upgrades on the D and bottom six. We should have never been in a situation where Clague and Pilut were the only options. 

I didn't say STARDOM. I guess the like Marchand comment confused you but the talk at the time was we need our own rat. That side of Marchand, not his offensive prowess. I guess I should have said Barnaby. 

Barnaby got playing time in the NHL. It's more likely than not that Pekar never makes it up to the NHL. 

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yes exactly, as I outlined elsewhere. Some people wipe the slate clean with KA. Some do not. I do not. Sabres have sucked for a really long time and it's all The Sabres to me. No forgiveness for that. It's the team's fault they've had a bunch of dud GMs and coaches. Draw the line at the Pegula purchase perhaps. 

This is fine as regards your willingness/unwillingness to be optimistic, but I assume you are willing to give KA a reasonable amount of time as GM to determine whether he’s the right guy?

Separately, it looks like DG pulled the plug on Krebs centering for Mitts and VO after the first period tonight.  I thought they weren’t good but were somewhat less terrible than the Mitts/VO line was before Krebs joined them in the Colorado game.

In any case they gave up an ES goal in the first tonight, and DG swapped Krebs for Jost, but kept Mitts and VO together, with Jost centering them.  That trio was terrible in the 2nd and 3rd, and put up zero resistance on SJ’s 3rd goal, which SJ scored immediately after the Sabres went up 5-2.  Mitts might’ve been stapled to the bench after that goal.

I thought Krebs dragged down Zemgus and KO in the 2nd after DG swapped him in for Jost, but that line, including Krebs, played pretty well in the 3rd.

I continue to think Mitts and VO cannot play on the same line.  

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This is fine as regards your willingness/unwillingness to be optimistic, but I assume you are willing to give KA a reasonable amount of time as GM to determine whether he’s the right guy?

Separately, it looks like DG pulled the plug on Krebs centering for Mitts and VO after the first period tonight.  I thought they weren’t good but were somewhat less terrible than the Mitts/VO line was before Krebs joined them in the Colorado game.

In any case they gave up an ES goal in the first tonight, and DG swapped Krebs for Jost, but kept Mitts and VO together, with Jost centering them.  That trio was terrible in the 2nd and 3rd, and put up zero resistance on SJ’s 3rd goal, which SJ scored immediately after the Sabres went up 5-2.  Mitts might’ve been stapled to the bench after that goal.

I thought Krebs dragged down Zemgus and KO in the 2nd after DG swapped him in for Jost, but that line, including Krebs, played pretty well in the 3rd.

I continue to think Mitts and KO cannot play on the same line.  

KO or VO?

Would agree that Mitts & VO need to be separated at this point.  Considering Mitts was benched at the end of the 3rd, expect that will be happening.

[nfreeman]

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

KO or VO?

Would agree that Mitts & VO need to be separated at this point.  Considering Mitts was benched at the end of the 3rd, expect that will be happening.

VO — I fixed it.  

[Doohicksie]

You look at our top scorers and something jumps right out...

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

I'm going to need proof, cuz that sounds like some hyperbole BS to make a point.

Can you access the old threads from years ago when Mitts first joined the Sabres? If so you'll find it. If you expect me to try to find that, well sorry, I have a life. Not an especially busy one, but busy enough not to try to do that. 

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Barnaby got playing time in the NHL. It's more likely than not that Pekar never makes it up to the NHL. 

Exactly. Which is my point. You just argued what I've been saying all along. Prospects are just prospects. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

This is fine as regards your willingness/unwillingness to be optimistic, but I assume you are willing to give KA a reasonable amount of time as GM to determine whether he’s the right guy?

Separately, it looks like DG pulled the plug on Krebs centering for Mitts and VO after the first period tonight.  I thought they weren’t good but were somewhat less terrible than the Mitts/VO line was before Krebs joined them in the Colorado game.

In any case they gave up an ES goal in the first tonight, and DG swapped Krebs for Jost, but kept Mitts and VO together, with Jost centering them.  That trio was terrible in the 2nd and 3rd, and put up zero resistance on SJ’s 3rd goal, which SJ scored immediately after the Sabres went up 5-2.  Mitts might’ve been stapled to the bench after that goal.

I thought Krebs dragged down Zemgus and KO in the 2nd after DG swapped him in for Jost, but that line, including Krebs, played pretty well in the 3rd.

I continue to think Mitts and VO cannot play on the same line.  

To the first bolded comment, of course I give him time. No GM should be judged until his draft choices show themselves to be good ones or crap ones. Anything less than 3 years on a GM is unfair. 

My main point is this (as clear and simples as I can put it). The deconstruction was necessary. he did it. Check. BUT the rebuild does not have to be just the draft and a spendthrift multi year plan just to compete. imo they (intentionally?) squandered an opportunity to be better and actually compete this year and not just be a learning/training camp for the future. 

I fully expect after this year, sometime before next year, they will make statements that "this is the year" and they will try to compete for the playoffs properly next year. At least I hope so. 

To the second bolded line, Mitts and VO really cannot play in the NHL. 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Can you access the old threads from years ago when Mitts first joined the Sabres? If so you'll find it. If you expect me to try to find that, well sorry, I have a life. Not an especially busy one, but busy enough not to try to do that. 

Exactly. Which is my point. You just argued what I've been saying all along. Prospects are just prospects. 

You go in circles. I don't know what you are talking about or what your point is. To say prospects are prospects is like saying a horse is a horse and a mule is a mule. I'm admittedly very obtuse but I'm aware of that. 

[SwampD]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Can you access the old threads from years ago when Mitts first joined the Sabres? If so you'll find it. If you expect me to try to find that, well sorry, I have a life. Not an especially busy one, but busy enough not to try to do that. 

So, I called you out for being full of crap. If you don’t care enough to prove me wrong, then I certainly don’t.

😂

[LGR4GM]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:15 PM, PerreaultForever said:

Remains to be seen. The cupboard was "full" before too, or so they said. Remember when everybody was pondering how they would afford to pay Mitts 10 million a year when they already would have to pay Skinner Eichel and Reinhart around 30? Remember those conversations? People here were serious. Mitts was going to need 8 figures lmfao.   Remember when Pekar was going to be our Marchand? Remember Bailey and Baptiste? So Hi back to them, now SHOW ME. 

 

13 hours ago, SwampD said:

Nobody ever said this.

Ever.

2020 Mitts Contract Thread: No one is even talking anything close to 10mil

I can't find his next contract conversation which would have been last year? I think. But in 2020 no one wanted him for 10mil a year, if some wanted that shortly after he was drafted, that's really just draft talk. We all hope our picks light it up. 

[LGR4GM]

When he signed his ELC, didn't go through this but could be some talk in there but again, that's just hope and excitement when someone signs. We want ppl to succeed. 

 

[nfreeman]

Well, I don't think anyone here could be super-confident that @GASabresIUFAN hasn't ever advocated for an 8-year extension for Mitts at $10MM per year.  Certainly it would've been a fringe view.

More to the point:  Mitts and VO got completely caved in again last night, with under 7% of expected goals for.

I'm glad DG tried something last night -- throwing Jost to the wolves by swapping him in for Krebs on that line -- but it didn't work at all.  Jost ended up with only 2.53% of expected goals for.  He was the only Sabre with a worse xGF than Mitts and VO.

DG, I beseech you:  split up Mitts and VO.  Keep dressing them if you must, but everyone can see that they are disastrous together.

If it were up to me, I'd bench Mitts for at least 2 gams and go with:

VO-Jost-Asplund/Vinnie

Zemgus-Krebs-KO

[Marvin]

It seems obvious that Mittlestadt and Olofsson need to be split.  I also can not see either of them getting outright scratched.  How do we juggle our bottom 8 forwards within these constraints?

If I were doing this, I would bench both for a couple of games.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Marvin

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Marvin said:

It seems obvious that Mittlestadt and Olofsson need to be split.  I also can not see either of them getting outright scratched.  How do we juggle our bottom 8 forwards within these constraints?

If I were doing this, I would bench both for a couple of games.

Was right there with you in that expectation until Mittelstadt seemed to be benched at the end of the 3rd last night.  Could see him, if not both, having finally found himself in the odd man out sweepstakes.

[Marvin]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Was right there with you in that expectation until Mittelstadt seemed to be benched at the end of the 3rd last night.  Could see him, if not both, having finally found himself in the odd man out sweepstakes.

Good.  They have earned it.

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, Marvin said:

It seems obvious that Mittlestadt and Olofsson need to be split.  I also can not see either of them getting outright scratched.  How do we juggle our bottom 8 forwards within these constraints?

If I were doing this, I would bench both for a couple of games.

It’s obvious they need to be split, but again, where do you put them without screwing up other lines that are working?

[Marvin]

Just now, K-9 said:

It’s obvious they need to be split, but again, where do you put them without screwing up other lines that are working?

That's why my preferred solution is

Girgensons-Jost-Okposo

Asplund-Krebs-Hinostroza

[Pimlach]

16 hours ago, JohnC said:

Barnaby got playing time in the NHL. It's more likely than not that Pekar never makes it up to the NHL. 

Playing time was 834 games, 113 goals, 300 points and 2562 PIM.   He was a nutcase out there. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Pimlach

[Doohicksie]

40 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

That preview tho 👀

Edited December 5, 2022 by Doohickie

[Pimlach]

7 minutes ago, Marvin said:

That's why my preferred solution is

Girgensons-Jost-Okposo

Asplund-Krebs-Hinostroza

I like keeping Krebs with KO and ZG.  They provide a level a protection and experience that Krebs could benefit from.  Krebs is young enough to be treated like a development project, we know what we have with the other players. 

If we had a stronger veteran presence at forward Krebs would certainly be in Rochester.  I think playing him with these two vets is smart and DG should give it a few games to see if anything develops.   Krebs can provide the speed and playmaking skill.  This is an opportunity for him to figure out the NHL game.  KO and ZG can help him to play the 200-foot game and we might squeeze a few goals out of this line.  This is probably better for him than sending him down to the AHL right now.  

That leaves Jost, Mitts, VO, Vinnie and Aspy and one line left.  

Right now I try to build a "don't screw me" line to play limited minutes.   I pick Asplund, Jost and Vinnie (if healthy).  I am trying to come up with a line that hurts us the least.   Aspy and Jost can help on the PK and they are at least defensively responsible.  Defensively Vinnie does less bad than VO and has some speed and offensive side to him.   Mitts is in a funk and he needs to wake up and play hockey.  

I think Granato should let VO and Mitts think about things.  They can both put on a nice suit and watch the games from up top for a while.  When Mitts decides it's time to take a job away from Jost or Krebs he can show it in practice.  Other than that, the only way Mitts gets on my ice is if the GM tells me he is shopping him and he needs to play.  

 

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, Doohickie said:

You look at our top scorers and something jumps right out...

Especially with the yellow highlighter.  

 

Ras at +10.   Looking great for him.  

[Carmel Corn]

11 hours ago, Doohickie said:

You look at our top scorers and something jumps right out...

.

Sitting VO and Casey seems like a great example of "addition by subtraction"

I wouldn't mind seeing a package deal trade for a power forward and/or stay-at-home RHD.

[Marvin]

9 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Sitting VO and Casey seems like a great example of "addition by subtraction"

I wouldn't mind seeing a package deal trade for a power forward and/or stay-at-home RHD.

Brock Boeser is available (this year and 2 more at about $6.85 M).  I would tell him to take some time to mourn his father properly.  Does Vancouver's #3 LHD look appealing?

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Playing time was 834 games, 113 goals, 300 points and over 2562 PIM.   He was a nutcase out there. 

He had issues both off and on the ice. I think he did get his life straightened out.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Especially with the yellow highlighter.  

 

Ras at +10.   Looking great for him.  

What's also encouraging about the scoring chart beyond the +/_  is the wide distribution of goal scoring. That's a positive side that the roster is better balanced and not overloaded by one depended upon line.