Mittelstadt, Olofsson and the 3rd and 4th Lines

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

I thought I was alone in a crowd here.  
 

I wasn't much of a Larsson fan either.  I felt like his “success” was the product of artificially low expectations in the aftermath of the tank.  I think Asplund is similar.  I almost choked on my coffee the first time a poster claimed Asplunds play was Selke worthy.  I don’t see it.  I think at best he’s an intelligent player that knows to play within himself and tends to be well positioned.   But thats about it.

Agree.  I have seen that he has some good fancy stats but I don't care for his game.  No offensive production, very tame player, barely fits as a 4th line player to me.   I just don't see a Selke player that hounds the other team's top line, forcing mistakes, and gaining offensive advantage - he sure did not do that last night in 5V5.  

 

This team will be good when we get an NHL #1 goalie and replace Mitts, Olofsson, Asplund, and Bryson/Fitz/Pilut.  

Edited November 29, 2022 by Pimlach

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

VO would do really well with Cozens and JJ, but then you hurt Quinn's development. That's how I see it

But Quinn isn’t even just there to develop. Quinn is helping us do the things required to win, NOW. The kid line isn’t good for a kid line: they are just plain good. 

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

I don't think VO is quite as bad as Mitts is at this, but I'm starting to think he isn't great at it either.

If VO was playing with good line mates he would be lighting it up...AS USUAL. He's chained to Mitts now and also not really getting PP time. So he can't really produce. 

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

But Quinn isn’t even just there to develop. Quinn is helping us do the things required to win, NOW. The kid line isn’t good for a kid line: they are just plain good. 

And they would still be good with VO taking Quinn's place. He would probably be scoring more than Quinn...for now. 

And I'm not saying switch them, just that VO would fit right in on that line 

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If VO was playing with good line mates he would be lighting it up...AS USUAL. He's chained to Mitts now and also not really getting PP time. So he can't really produce. 

And they would still be good with VO taking Quinn's place. He would probably be scoring more than Quinn...for now. 

And I'm not saying switch them, just that VO would fit right in on that line 

I’ve been one of VO’s biggest boosters on this board but even I wouldn’t mess with that line / swap in VO. Quinn is doing a lot to create space for his linemates. 

I pointed it out in the GDT yesterday but it didn’t get any traction, but if anyone goes and watches the highlight of Quinn’s goal yesterday: the most impressive thing could be the pass he makes, to JJ, leading him, before JJ is even looking. 

That’s... eye opening talent and space creation 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorner]

Can’t find a YouTube link to embed but this is that goal

https://www.nhl.com/video/quinn-scores-goal/t-335522622/c-13976599

[LGR4GM]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Can’t find a YouTube link to embed but this is that goal

https://www.nhl.com/video/quinn-scores-goal/t-335522622/c-13976599

 

27 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

If VO was playing with good line mates he would be lighting it up...AS USUAL. He's chained to Mitts now and also not really getting PP time. So he can't really produce. 

And they would still be good with VO taking Quinn's place. He would probably be scoring more than Quinn...for now. 

And I'm not saying switch them, just that VO would fit right in on that line 

Comparing Quinn to Olofsson is like comparing Buffalo pizza to papa John's. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

So the Jost line falters and they inherit one of Mitts or VO. Where does the other sucky player go? No matter how we slice it, separating them is gonna ensure that two lines are 1/3 suck. I’d rather have one line with 2/3 suck and the other three with no suck. 

But watch, Mitts will have his one in ten great games and VO will pot a couple PP or empty net goals and all their defenders will come out with their “I told you so” and once again ignore their 90% body of work that sucks. 

The other "sucky" player stays where he is or joins the Hinostroza - Krebs rotation.

And no, don't agree that splitting them up ensures that 2 lines are "1/3 suck."  But totally get Granato's reluctance to break up the Jost line right now.  And absolutely agree that the top 2 lines shouldn't be broken up.

IMHO the biggest issue that line has is that Mittelstadt isn't driving play (for whatever reason (yeah, yeah, we know, it's because he sucks), once he gets the puck, if he can't pass it, he gets it along the boards and keeps it there; he doesn't try to get it to the center of the ice which pretty much ensures he'll eventually lose it; and driving to the center of the ice was his trademark whether he kept the puck or not) and neither VO nor Asplund/Hinostroza is going to drive play.  Maybe Jost or Krebs could drive play with VO & Asplund/Hinostroza but have doubts on that.

One thing lost in the improvement of the Cozens line is that they were getting deployed as the 3rd line most of this season.  They got to gel while not getting a steady diet of the other team's top 2 lines & top D pairing.  Granato bumped them up against Joisey and played them a lot against the Hischier line and they weren't quite ready for it but as Granato would say they seem to have learned from it as they were matched up against a very good 3nd TB line & dominated.

Getting the easier matchups should help that Mitts line get some confidence.  They played really well against the Bergeron line, not quite as well against the Krejci line but still were solid except when Dahlin took the puck off his foot, but haven't looked as good since.  They can play good hockey, just need to believe it themselves.

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Comparing Quinn to Olofsson is like comparing Buffalo pizza to papa John's. 

Thanks for the embed.

Though, I’ll argue w/ whoever wrote that tweet that Quinn actually created his own space through the vision he has to see the play at speed, and dish that pass as quick as he did. It looks like barely anything but even just a second or two at this level, when splitting hair between players who are ALL talented, can make all the difference. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

It’s 1 garbage line and 1 energy line; the JOG line has played fine for a Bot 6 group

The "energy" line is pretty mediocre and doesn't measure up to other team's actual energy lines. There is nothing in the bottom six that the team needs to hang on to for the future. It's a comparatively weak group.

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Next season we'll have one very good line, one slightly more experienced kid line, another kid line that's very green, and a line like the JOG line (maybe the same exact line).

Can you list out who you mean or are thinking of. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

VO would do really well with Cozens and JJ, but then you hurt Quinn's development. That's how I see it

In addition to stunting Quinn, it would weaken that line and negatively impact Cozens and JJP in the process. The way that line has been humming, it would be ludicrous to break it up. Other than being a PP specialist, VO doesn’t bring much else imo.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

2 good lines 

One reasonable 4th line

I think people over value the 4th line. I really don't think it measures up to top teams 4th lines and lacks the role/character some of those lines have. They're really just a bunch of guys who can't crack the top 3 lines and not solid role players. The fact we have two of our letters on the 4th line is downright weird. 

The 2nd line is good at times but still raw and error prone at others. 

[bob_sauve28]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

In addition to stunting Quinn, it would weaken that line and negatively impact Cozens and JJP in the process. The way that line has been humming, it would be ludicrous to break it up. Other than being a PP specialist, VO doesn’t bring much else imo.

No 

54 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’ve been one of VO’s biggest boosters on this board but even I wouldn’t mess with that line / swap in VO. Quinn is doing a lot to create space for his linemates. 

I pointed it out in the GDT yesterday but it didn’t get any traction, but if anyone goes and watches the highlight of Quinn’s goal yesterday: the most impressive thing could be the pass he makes, to JJ, leading him, before JJ is even looking. 

That’s... eye opening talent and space creation 

That's why I specifically said I would not mess with that line. 

[bob_sauve28]

37 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 Comparing Quinn to Olofsson is like comparing Buffalo pizza to papa John's. 

Pretty arrogant response. 

 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think people over value the 4th line. I really don't think it measures up to top teams 4th lines and lacks the role/character some of those lines have. They're really just a bunch of guys who can't crack the top 3 lines and not solid role players. The fact we have two of our letters on the 4th line is downright weird. 

The 2nd line is good at times but still raw and error prone at others. 

I think most teams 4th lines, really, are populated by dudes that can’t crack higher ground: so I suppose I disagree they can’t be construed as solid role players. Asplund/Jost/Girgensons/Okposo I’d argue do fit that criteria 

7 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

No 

That's why I specifically said I would not mess with that line. 

Ya, I like VO and do think he’d look better there 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

No 

That's why I specifically said I would not mess with that line. 

Are you saying that adding a worse player to that line wouldn’t result in less production for Cozens and JJP? Is VO on the same level as Quinn and can he bring the same D play, board work, and vision as Quinn does to that line? I just can’t see that. He might bring some scoring, but it wouldn’t be much more than what Quinn can bring and I doubt it would be enough to offset his D liabilities. 

It’s a moot point anyway because three other lines seem to be working at the moment. 

[Thorner]

@bob_sauve28 sounds like you are basically saying we have 7 guys who can succeed in that top 6, not that inserting VO necessarily avoids somewhat of a potential drop-off, but the key point being that whichever of the 7, in this case VO, isn’t in the top 6 will be left to twist in the wind shackled to someone like Mittelstadt and his black hole third line 

Correct me if I’m wrong 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Thorny

[Curt]

3 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

And they would still be good with VO taking Quinn's place. He would probably be scoring more than Quinn...for now. 

And I'm not saying switch them, just that VO would fit right in on that line 

I don’t know if they would still be “good”, but I doubt they would be better.  Quinn does things to contribute that Olofsson simply doesn’t.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Comparing Quinn to Olofsson is like comparing Buffalo pizza to papa John's. 

or like comparing John Marino to Lyubushkin.  🙂

[nfreeman]

3 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

VO would do really well with Cozens and JJ, but then you hurt Quinn's development. That's how I see it

The Harrington tweet is interesting, but as it's just his guess, I don't think it means anything.  I don't think Mitts has much trade value.  AZ isn't trading Chychrun for a package where Mitts is the best or 2nd-best piece.

Regarding VO being placed with Cozens and JJP -- I'm pretty sure they tried that about 5 games ago for 2-3 games and it didn't work.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Pretty arrogant response. 

 

Why? 

Quinn is a better player. Olofsson has 1 really fun trick, his shot. Quinn has that plus a host of other skills.

By January there won't be much question about that. Idk how thinking that is arrogant. 

32 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t know if they would still be “good”, but I doubt they would be better.  Quinn does things to contribute that Olofsson simply doesn’t.

I'd change doesn't to can't. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Pretty arrogant response. 

 

Papa John’s fan?

Seriously though, I think there is a very good chance that Quinn is a star and ends up being one of the  5 best players on the team going forward.  Olofsson ain’t that.

[Brawndo]

There really isn’t a comparison of the two players

[thewookie1]

I wonder if we could somehow convince Minnesota to trade Zuccarello for Olofsson?

[nfreeman]

FWIW, DG was on WGR this AM and Jeremy White asked him several questions about the Mitts/VO line.  DG, as might be expected, spoke supportively and positively about Mitts and VO.  He pointed out that Mitts has been very productive on the PP, while admitting that the Mitts/VO line needs to improve at 5-on-5.

DG also said that the other 3 lines are playing very well right now, noting that a couple of weeks ago only 1 line was playing well, and that Jost has fit in very well with Zemgus and KO.  He said that he didn't want to change those 3 lines, and the solution would come from coaching plus improvement from Mitts, VO and Aspie, plus rotating Krebs and Vinnie into that line.  He expressed confidence that they would get there.

DG is certainly more confident about that than I am.  We'll see.

[nfreeman]

Well, mitts and VO sure didn’t do anything tonight to dispel the growing doubts about their viability on this team. Their line was terrible again.