Mittelstadt, Olofsson and the 3rd and 4th Lines

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

My recollection was that a lot of people, some tongue-in-cheek, some serious, hailed Casey as a savior of sorts.  I was on that train a while, as I am apt to jump on these hype trains.  That said... I never thought he'd be a $10 million per year player.

Now someone pass me @PerreaultForever's crack pipe.

I'm in the disappointing category who thought that Mitts was going to be a good NHL 2 or 3C. It hasn't materialized. But even when I had higher expectations I never, or recall others saying, that he would be a $10 M player. (There may have been a distinct minority who elevated the player but the prevailing view was that he could potentially be a legitimate player in this league. Right now, the tide is going against him. That's disappointing. But that doesn't mean that he is completely washed up with no chance of salvaging his career. I believe he needs a change of scenery to reinvigorate his career. The issue I have with @PerreaultForever is that he creates an outlandish premise and then foists it upon others. That is a cheap and unworthy ploy.  

[Zamboni]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

No one is anointing anyone. That's your capstone fallback response to everyone. Much of the commentary about a number of the youngsters is positive for the simple reason is that their play is positive. Are Power, JJ and Cozens playing poorly? Isn't their recent play encouraging? And not all the commentary is indiscriminately glowing for players such as UPL, Mitts and Olofsson. You don't think that they have been harshly criticized? You are painting a false picture that everyone, but you, has been sucked into the vortex of delusion that their team is on the verge of hoisting the Cup. That's not true, and never has been true. 

Following a rebuilding team is different from following a Cup contending team. (Stating the obvious!) To get from point A to point Z is a process, sometimes excruciating so. It's not necessarily a steady upward trajectory. That's where we are at. And most of us understand that. What you are basically saying is call me when you get there. In the real world you don't get to your destination unless you travel the road. 

He really should just rip off the bandaid already. Just leave the Sabres in their misery and suckitude and just go fully time energy Bruins and Kraken fan. The hell with stupid Buffalo the city, and their stupid lame hockey team. I mean that’s certainly the vibe I’m getting from all of the posts regarding anything Buffalo related.

[Zamboni]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm in the disappointing category who thought that Mitts was going to be a good NHL 2 or 3C. It hasn't materialized. But even when I had higher expectations I never, or recall others saying, that he would be a $10 M player. (There may have been a distinct minority who elevated the player but the prevailing view was that he could potentially be a legitimate player in this league. Right now, the tide is going against him. That's disappointing. But that doesn't mean that he is completely washed up with no chance of salvaging his career. I believe he needs a change of scenery to reinvigorate his career. The issue I have with @PerreaultForever is that he creates an outlandish premise and then foists it upon others. That is a cheap and unworthy ploy.  

I think that happens often. If one or two or even three fans have an opinion. Months or years later… It’s falsely remembered as “ A bunch of fans“ had the opinion blah blah. 😂

 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

He really should just rip off the bandaid already. Just leave the Sabres in their misery and suckitude and just go fully time energy Bruins and Kraken fan. The hell with stupid Buffalo the city, and their stupid lame hockey team. I mean that’s certainly the vibe I’m getting from all of the posts regarding anything Buffalo related.

He's entitled to his opinion. He can follow the team in any way he wants to. That's his prerogative. It's just that some people work hard not to be happy. 

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

He's entitled to his opinion. He can follow the team in any way he wants to. That's his prerogative. It's just that some people work hard not to be happy. 

Agree… there’s also the idea of just simply not engaging The ridiculousness.

[Pimlach]

Getting back to hockey.  It looks like we have two good lines.  Of course, as @PerreaultForeverso astutely states, anything can happen and any of the 6 players on these 2 lines could start sucking at any time. 

For the sake of this conversation, can we say these lines are set for now and get back to building 2 more lines - with either current rostered player, prospects, roster moves - you know, hockey talk. 

 

Otherwise, this thread is getting ruined and completely comes off the rails.  Or maybe the subject has been covered enough?   

 

 

[K-9]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

What I'm saying is I'm not going to anoint people, they have to earn it. 

For example, right now the kid line is showing signs of being very good, but the sample size is way too small and all the bandwagon jumpers proclaiming the job as finished (only the third line needs fixing now) could hurt themselves falling off real soon. 

Let's see how they do against pittsburgh for example. Dominating San Jose this year isn't a huge accomplishment. 

FFS! Being excited over a dominant stretch by the kid line is not anointing them of anything. You seem to think we are all idiots or something. If you want to wallow in your phucking hockey misery, feel free to do so. But stop begrudging the rest of us the simple joy of watching a good performance now and then. 

[Doohicksie]

19 minutes ago, K-9 said:

FFS! Being excited over a dominant stretch by the kid line is not anointing them of anything.

Nope.  I've anointed them and several others have too.  Don't worry about us falling off the bandwagon, we've done it before.

[K-9]

9 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Nope.  I've anointed them and several others have too.  Don't worry about us falling off the bandwagon, we've done it before.

You’re right!  They’ll all soon be getting eight figures very as they forge HOF careers. Sample size, schmample size. As a Sabre fan, a few good games out of a player is all I need to see! 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

FFS! Being excited over a dominant stretch by the kid line is not anointing them of anything. You seem to think we are all idiots or something. If you want to wallow in your phucking hockey misery, feel free to do so. But stop begrudging the rest of us the simple joy of watching a good performance now and then. 

We aren't allowed to enjoy the fun parts of the season. If they don't make the playoffs everything is a failure and anyone saying otherwise is a loser with a loser mentality. The second we make the playoffs this will shift to winning a playoff round and anything else we like makes us losers. As soon as we win a playoff series it will be win the conference and anything else we like is loser mentality, then it will be Stanley Cup or bust and if you enjoy any other part of the season you are an idiot and loser. 

I've enjoyed parts of this season and if that makes me an idiot with a loser mentality, cool. At least I am being entertained. 

[inkman]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

We aren't allowed to enjoy the fun parts of the season. If they don't make the playoffs everything is a failure and anyone saying otherwise is a loser with a loser mentality. The second we make the playoffs this will shift to winning a playoff round and anything else we like makes us losers. As soon as we win a playoff series it will be win the conference and anything else we like is loser mentality, then it will be Stanley Cup or bust and if you enjoy any other part of the season you are an idiot and loser. 

I've enjoyed parts of this season and if that makes me an idiot with a loser mentality, cool. At least I am being entertained. 

Watching our top two lines and top 4 D has been appointment television.  Every rush and possession in the O zone has me on the edge of my seat.  For different reasons, I’m also on the edge of my seat when 37, 71, 45, 20 & 78 are on the ice. 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We aren't allowed to enjoy the fun parts of the season. If they don't make the playoffs everything is a failure and anyone saying otherwise is a loser with a loser mentality. The second we make the playoffs this will shift to winning a playoff round and anything else we like makes us losers. As soon as we win a playoff series it will be win the conference and anything else we like is loser mentality, then it will be Stanley Cup or bust and if you enjoy any other part of the season you are an idiot and loser. 

I've enjoyed parts of this season and if that makes me an idiot with a loser mentality, cool. At least I am being entertained. 

I’m content knowing that it’s the journey that’s most important. 

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’m content knowing that it’s the journey that’s most important. 

One of the fun parts of Georgia winning last year was the journey to get there. At least the team entertains me now, under Krueger and Bylsma I was bored watching a flat boring style of hockey with lots of 1 note players and no personality who acted like cliche hockey bots. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Nope.  I've anointed them and several others have too.  Don't worry about us falling off the bandwagon, we've done it before.

Is that why you have your orthopedic doctor in your contact list? 🤡

[nfreeman]

So, it looks like tomorrow we'll get the following, which is what we saw in the 2nd & 3rd periods vs SJ:

VO-Jost-Mitts

Zemgus-Krebs-KO

VO-Jost-Mitts was terrible vs SJ, while Zemgus-Krebs-KO was lousy in the 2nd period but quite good in the 3rd period.

I'm not optimistic about VO-Jost-Mitts, but I want to see it for more than a couple of periods. 

I'm cautiously optimistic about Zemgus-Krebs-KO, as I think Zemgus' and KO's strengths complement Krebs' weaknesses well, and Krebs brings some playmaking and ability to create chances to the table.

As a related matter, DG was on WGR this morning and said that he knows Mitts and VO have been struggling, but he thinks they are improving and on the right track.

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So, it looks like tomorrow we'll get the following, which is what we saw in the 2nd & 3rd periods vs SJ:

VO-Jost-Mitts

Zemgus-Krebs-KO

VO-Jost-Mitts was terrible vs SJ, while Zemgus-Krebs-KO was lousy in the 2nd period but quite good in the 3rd period.

I'm not optimistic about VO-Jost-Mitts, but I want to see it for more than a couple of periods. 

I'm cautiously optimistic about Zemgus-Krebs-KO, as I think Zemgus' and KO's strengths complement Krebs' weaknesses well, and Krebs brings some playmaking and ability to create chances to the table.

As a related matter, DG was on WGR this morning and said that he knows Mitts and VO have been struggling, but he thinks they are improving and on the right track.

Granato isn't dumb.  That he continues to believe there's something there is a big part of why this kid hasn't given up on them.  But agree that to get to where the Sabres need (want?) them to be they very possibly might need to spend time apart from each other & right now the only realistic way to do that is to either put Mitts between Okposo & Girgensons or more realistically to bench one of them.

The other reason am not willing to throw in the towel yet is, IMHO, part of why the Cozterkinn line got as good as it did as quickly as it did was they were mainly treated as the 3rd line while they were gelling & weren't saddled w/ the 3rd D pair too often & didn't draw as tough of assignments as "that other line" was getting.  Please note, before somebody accuses yours truly of saying Cozterkinn got good because of the deployment that that was NOT what was said.  What was said is that the Ws got to work through getting to know Cozens (they already worked on chemistry in Ra-cha-cha most of last year) and developing chemistry with him which getting more favorable usage than they are now apparently (based on their results since getting bumped up to officially line 2) ready to face which made it easier to be successful.  Having battled through the tougher usage until quite recently, they deserve, again IMHO (realize it's not widely popular here), an opportunity to get their act together against easier competition as well.  Expect they might be getting some consideration for having played through more or less season long injuries last year & having played well last year when actually healthy, but don't know that for a fact.  (And in a "what have you done for me lately' business like pro sports, don't know that it is a legit justification, if in fact it even is a justification.)

The concerning matter is when Granato believes in someone, he seems to stubbornly stick w/ him even when everybody else gives up hope.  Not positive that he knows when it finally is time to toss in the rope; but am hopeful he does which is another reason am not throwing in the towel.  Still believe having Jokiharju as a partner is making life tougher than it needs to be for Power (though w/ Lyubushkin out, it is by far the best option currently available to him).

All that said, am hoping that the Mitts line doesn't get deployed after the Sabres score a goal as that & icing the puck are where the 'oh ####' moments are primarily happening.  For the love of all that's good & Holy, PLEASE don't send them out immediately after scoring a goal.

[Taro T]

And, 1 other reason this kid isn't giving up on Mitts yet is, this team seems to have 1 of the best analytics departments in the game.  Realize all the "conventional" fancy stats say he & Olofsson are hot garbage.  But do the Sabres fancy stats say that?  If they did, wouldn't the cord already have been cut?  Or are they the trade bait for a Chychrun or other?

Maybe am misreading it & they're only playing to facilitate a trade, but am suspecting the Sabres fancy stats aren't the same as the conventional ones.

[Crusader1969]

All I know is that I would like to see Mittlestadt away from Olofsson for a bit before I completely discard Mitts. 

there is absolutely no reason not to try 

Mitts - Jost - Hinny / Asplund for at least a couple of games  

As for Olofsson   Find a team that is willing to trade a PP specialist for a 6th Dman who can skate and Play D 

 

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

13 hours ago, K-9 said:

FFS! Being excited over a dominant stretch by the kid line is not anointing them of anything. You seem to think we are all idiots or something. If you want to wallow in your phucking hockey misery, feel free to do so. But stop begrudging the rest of us the simple joy of watching a good performance now and then. 

Not ALL. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

If DG is serious about fixing Mitts, I think the answer is getting him to watch film on Thompson.  Mitts needs to drive the middle of the ice.  He is big enough, fast enough and strong enough to make plays there.  However he needs to be willing to take the hits that come from driving the middle.  

[Refuting]

23 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not ALL. 

PerraultForever rulez

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If DG is serious about fixing Mitts, I think the answer is getting him to watch film on Thompson.  Mitts needs to drive the middle of the ice.  He is big enough, fast enough and strong enough to make plays there.  However he needs to be willing to take the hits that come from driving the middle.  

It seems to me that in some situations Mitts is confident and determined but in others he's less confident and therefore less determined to follow though. 

It's like when Tage gets the puck in the slot with a slightly out of position Dman, you know he's going to get a good scoring chance and he makes it happen. 

With Mitts he doesn't have the confidence to do that, so he's not as determined to try.  I just see Casey give up on a puck too easily. 

Look at Tage.  Look at Skinner.  Look at Dahlin.  Look at Cozens.  When they go after a puck, failure just isn't an option... but if they do fail they don't give up on the play.  They dog the other player until he eventually coughs it up.

I totally think Casey has that same ability.  I see it in flashes, just not consistently.  I think it's 90% half mental.  If he could get just a little further in terms of confidence I could see it cascading and Casey would rapidly improve.

I think Olofsson is different.  He does make plays here and there but he will never be a play driver.  He's a finisher and a very good one.  He's a Vanek, a Kotalik, a Satan.  Float around, take the shot.  I think he could be an asset but it would take the right linemates to make that work.  He's worked okay at times on Tage's line but that line is too locked in to mess with it.  Not sure what the answer is for Olofsson.  Maybe Donny has some ideas.

[North Buffalo]

I think Jost is having a positive influence on Mitts... I see more grind lately in his game... I think his skill will come through eventually... Mitts seems to have worked himself into good shape.

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If DG is serious about fixing Mitts, I think the answer is getting him to watch film on Thompson.  Mitts needs to drive the middle of the ice.  He is big enough, fast enough and strong enough to make plays there.  However he needs to be willing to take the hits that come from driving the middle.  

The recent play of Mitts hasn't been very productive. But on the positive side he is displaying effort and battling for the puck. His marquis play last night was getting back on defense to prevent a breakaway. That was a terrific effort. All you can ask of Mitts is to keep grinding. From my vantage point that's what he is doing. 

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The recent play of Mitts hasn't been very productive. But on the positive side he is displaying effort and battling for the puck. His marquis play last night was getting back on defense to prevent a breakaway. That was a terrific effort. All you can ask of Mitts is to keep grinding. From my vantage point that's what he is doing. 

Trade him and move on. Let another team watch him "grind" while he makes the wrong play repeatedly in the offensive zone and is mediocre in the defensive zone. If I have to watch an offensive zone chance die again because Casey decides to force a pass or skate into trouble or just spin around on the wall with no idea what to do until he just halfheartedly dumps it back to the point, my head might explode. 

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

I think Jost is having a positive influence on Mitts... I see more grind lately in his game... I think his skill will come through eventually... Mitts seems to have worked himself into good shape.

Good luck.