GDT - Thunder Bolts & Lightning @ Sabres - November 28, 2022 - 7:00 PM (EST) - MSG and WGR

[Radar]

Two reasons we lost: Penalty kill toward bottom in league and goaltending toward or maybe bottom of league. Physicality or lack of it is not why we lost.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Ok, too lazy to go through all the pages. Even with the Flu i was able to get into this game, both with the highs and lows. My thoughts and observations:

- Tage is worth every penny and then some! 

- Our defense is way the hell too passive on the Pk. We need another defensive minded Dman in the worst way. 

- We do not need grit, we need players that are not afraid to lay the body and be smart enough to know where to go on the PK and stay there and not wander! 

- The kids are getting better day by day! Cozens, Peterka and Quinn look awesome! Love that line.

- This team is filled with pansies that are afraid of the front of the net, or maybe it is being coached out of them. TAKE NOTES FROM TAMPA!!!!! Even smaller players going to the net helps!!!

- 6K did not get much help on most of his goals, but he did not really help himself. He needs to play about 6 games in a row so we can see if he can find a rhythm. If not then he gets buried in the AHL, experiment done. Bring on the college kids!!! (If they will come here)

All in all it was a fun game to watch, but damn i would have loved 2 points there. 

 

[SwampD]

20 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Every year it seems about this time I get a saying stuck in my head (other than "Muriel you b**** I'm finally going to kill you!!!!!"). Learning to lose. It's a perennial realization that despite all this young talent, the losing culture somehow continues to replicate itself. You don't learn anything from last night as a player. Just that, the next time you're in this situation you know what's going to happen. Not enough experience around you, coaching that's either clueless to the importance of winning or just clueless... Washrinserepeat.

The only use of analytics I'd endorse is finding out what refs let what go at what time in games in what situations. Like going down I-95, they can't call them all.

Awesome. And if the Sabres do it, they need to guard that information with their lives.

[SwampD]

13 minutes ago, Radar said:

Two reasons we lost: Penalty kill toward bottom in league and goaltending toward or maybe bottom of league. Physicality or lack of it is not why we lost.

Sure.

Look where they scored from and look where we took our penalties.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/game/_/gameId/401458935

(scroll down to shot chart)

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by SwampD

[Radar]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Sure.

Look where they scored from and look where we took our penalties.

https://www.espn.com/nhl/game/_/gameId/401458935

 

I think you may unknowingly be agreeing with me.

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I would bring back Hinostroza or Krebs (not both) and I would look to trade one of Mitts or Olofsson 

Mitts was a key guy this off-season.  Either he was going to break out into a good 2-way center or not.  So far, he has not.  I have been harping about the center spline for quite a while.  I wanted to bring in an NHL level C to replace Aiken (but be better).  One that could win face-offs and play solid defensive hockey, someone to help us win games like last night.  We didn't have to break the bank, or by any means "block" a prospect.  Just fill an important role with someone who can help win games.  Maybe Jost is that guy now, but that didn't show last night in the crunch time of the 3rd period?  He took a penalty when we needed him on the ice.   

So, if Mitts goes, then is Krebs the full time 3C by default?  I like the kid, but he has not earned that spot with his play.  He is not yet strong enough to be a full time 3C in the NHL.  That is not how the team gets better and I doubt it is the best thing for Krebs.  

Yesterday showed us a lot about this team.   We can play with the big boys, but we don't finish yet.  We outshot them by a lot and dominated 5V5.  But our PK gave up 4 goals in 4 opportunities.   That was painful, no one dared to clear the front of the net.   

We were out hit by a lot yesterday but given that we controlled 5V5 maybe that was part of it (although I don't buy it as the hits being were very lopsided).  We lost 60% of the faceoffs.  That is terrible.  On the last goal, Tage lost the draw cleanly in the offensive zone and we never touched the puck again before it ended up in the back of our net.   I am too pissed to look at the faceoffs in the last 5 minutes, or all the PK faceoffs, I think I know how that story turns out. 

Amazingly, that was our first OT of the season.  The finer points of closing out the game are not there yet. 

The coaches must have a system to insure victory with a 2-goal lead and 5 minutes left.  We even had the last change.   You do not play the that last 5 minutes the same way you played the first 55 minutes because Tampa was going to get disparate and dig deeper.  We have to be better as a team, stand up and clog the neutral zone, throw the puck into their zone and send a forechecker in to slow them down, keep them on the perimeter, help our goalie see the puck, clear the slot and clear rebounds - we did none of that.  We just backed up and watched them.  

To be fair - Two Penalties in the last 4 minutes broke us down and provide a huge advantage for Tampa.  We lost Looby in the all the carnage.  One penalty was just a stupid error (Power), the other was a tic tack call that the refs let go several times in the 3rd period when Tampa tripped or hooked a Sabre to the ground.  That penalty did not need to be called.  

This young team does not know how to win yet, and I am not sure the coaches do either.  

 

[SwampD]

7 minutes ago, Radar said:

I think you may unknowingly be agreeing with me.

Doubt it. We rarely get to those areas. When we do, we usually scare, too.

We had people on here last night actively defending UPL and how he had no chance on (I think) four of the goals.

I’m not an idiot. Do we need better goaltending (GT)?… um, duh. But bad goaltending is an easy, simplistic excuse for why the tide shifted in the last 4 minutes of that game.

[Sidc3000]

Just out of pure curiosity, does Tampa regularly shoot from the right side of the goalie or is that UPL’s vulnerable side?  They second & third most of Tampa’s shots were from his right side. 

[Doohicksie]

42 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Hockey is a physical game. That physicality can be and is used by teams to win games. There are plenty of guys that can stick handle and score goals. Tampa is filled with guys that can not only do that, but also get physical and nasty. It’s why they’ve been as good as they have been for as long as they have.

I’m sure you’re going to show me a bunch of stats and say, “no, this is why they’ve been good.” And once again, I will say that stats are a result, not the why.

The thing that makes me feel good about the Sabres' prospects going forward is that Dahlin is getting that way; hopefully Power will pick it up.  Tage is learning how to lay the body on opponents to grab the puck.  The whole Cozens line seems to understand they have to do that, but still learning NHL level physicality.  But I'd like to see it out of more of the roster.  Skinner tends to aggravate other players, get them off their game and goad them into penalties.  Tuch is big but doesn't use it enough (imo).  I think one of the things I like about Jost is that he seems to like mixing it up.

[Radar]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Doubt it. We rarely get to those areas. When we do, we usually scare, too.

We had people on here last night actively defending UPL and how he had no chance on (I think) four of the goals.

I’m not an idiot. Do we need better goaltending (GT)?… um, duh. But bad goaltending is an easy, simplistic excuse for why the tide shifted in the last 4 minutes of that game.

Ah,yes that's what I was saying when I said penalty kill and goaltending. In this specific case (last 5 minutes of regulation) it was our low ranked penalty kill that was the culprit. Suppose one could say bad penalties. Nevertheless physicality was not our problem. But I'm not defending our goaltending either.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, Radar said:

Ah,yes that's what I was saying when I said penalty kill and goaltending. In this specific case (last 5 minutes of regulation) it was our low ranked penalty kill that was the culprit. Suppose one could say bad penalties. Nevertheless physicality was not our problem. But I'm not defending our goaltending either.

Lack of physicality leads to bad penalties. Imo

 

[SwampD]

8 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

The thing that makes me feel good about the Sabres' prospects going forward is that Dahlin is getting that way; hopefully Power will pick it up.  Tage is learning how to lay the body on opponents to grab the puck.  The whole Cozens line seems to understand they have to do that, but still learning NHL level physicality.  But I'd like to see it out of more of the roster.  Skinner tends to aggravate other players, get them off their game and goad them into penalties.  Tuch is big but doesn't use it enough (imo).  I think one of the things I like about Jost is that he seems to like mixing it up.

I agree.

Tuch needs to use his size more. (AND LGR, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT PUNCHING PEOPLE). He definitely makes a lot happen because of his size, I just feel he could do more with it. Our young guys (they are really young) will get there.

[Radar]

4 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Lack of physicality leads to bad penalties. Imo

 

Bad positioning leads to penalties .Imo. Having said that I'm not putting down physically I just don't see it a factor in this particular loss.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Radar

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I think Punch was still in his *prime* in 1975.

Yes. In 1975 I was a strapping 17 year old.   I had long locks (gone now). 

I had two part time jobs (now retired but consulting), got pretty good grades, played football, hockey, baseball, and lifted weights (still do).  I drove a Pontiac, I partied a lot (still kind of do), I played the guitar (still do), and had fun (still do).   I was getting ready for college with no worries.  

That continues even today boys.  I am heading out to the golf course for 18 holes, followed by a nice IPA on the 19th hole.   After that, I will go home to the lovely misses.  

So the question is - When does my prime end?  

Edited November 29, 2022 by Pimlach

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Radar said:

Bad positioning leads to penalties .Imo

Oh, my god! That’s the point. Guys use their bodies to gain positioning. 

[Radar]

7 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Oh, my god! That’s the point. Guys use their bodies to gain positioning. 

Ok, I think you and I agree on that. They use their bodies.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Radar

[SwampD]

Just now, Radar said:

Ok, I think you and I agree on that.

And yet you say that physicality has nothing to do with it.

[Radar]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

And yet you say that physicality has nothing to do with it.

See editing. Not to belabor the point but I think positioning entails coaching and systems along with skill. To me it's not only using your body. Guess we've drained this.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Radar said:

Two reasons we lost: Penalty kill toward bottom in league and goaltending toward or maybe bottom of league. Physicality or lack of it is not why we lost.

Yes.   I will toss in youth.  We can't stare at them in awe like we did.  Need our leaders to address that.  

[Doohicksie]

16 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Oh, my god! That’s the point. Guys use their bodies to gain positioning. 

Guys user their speed to gain position.

[SwampD]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Guys user their speed to gain position.

In open ice.

Board battles and the cycle have nothing to do with speed. (Footspeed,… kinda. You know what I mean). They’re about taking a beating and still seeing the play, then making it.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

51 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes. In 1975 I was a strapping 17 year old.   I had long locks (gone now). 

I had two part time jobs (now retired but consulting), got pretty good grades, played football, hockey, baseball, and lifted weights (still do).  I drove a Pontiac, I partied a lot (still kind of do), I played the guitar (still do), and had fun (still do).   I was getting ready for college with no worries.  

That continues even today boys.  I am heading out to the golf course for 18 holes, followed by a nice IPA on the 19th hole.   After that, I will go home to the lovely misses.  

So the question is - When does my prime end?  

Ummm ??

In March 1975 Punch turned 57.

Who are you !!??

And what have you done with Punch !!??

[Taro T]

11 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

On Granato, help me understand HOW after going up 5-3, you Ice your worst line? Clearly struggling defensively is Mitts and Olofsson yet they are out there for the faceoff.   It’s a failing decision right? 

We saw so many growing pains with Dahlin his rookie/sophomore year, we must expect some bad nights with Power.  

UPL…

PK - we have the Matt Ellis of NHL Penalty Kills. 

You'll have to ask Granato your question because it was a bad decision.  Understand that he wanted to get the Mittelstadt line ice time as they hadn't had a shift in a long time, but the shift right after getting the 2 goal lead was not the one to give them.  Should have waited 1 or 2 more shifts to give them a matchup they could handle & after TB had made their charge for getting that goal back.

[triumph_communes]

The Jost penalty was a bit ol mental lapse. They played on their heels and did something stupid. 3 guys were all on one player and one felt the need to hook?

The coach doesn’t know how to close games. Only keep rookies thinking positive. Not going to make it to the next step with this guy. 

[Grinder]

12 hours ago, Contempt said:

1 ignored user ever, now +2 in two days. Not you, the tinfoil hat guy who probably has an election to refuse to certify somewhere.

You guys have a pretty ridiculous view of what hostile is

Edited November 29, 2022 by Grinder