Are The Sabres A Dark Horse Contender for Jakob Chychrun?

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

He’s only played 55 minutes this season. 

Offense looks good, defense slightly below average 

Isn’t he generally seen as pretty good defensively more than often?

Also he’s pretty physical if I remember correctly 

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Isn’t he generally seen as pretty good defensively more than often?

Also he’s pretty physical if I remember correctly 

I always thought that he wasn’t anything above average defensively.  He is a big beastly physical specimen, so maybe that makes people think he is a good defender?  He has rarely been a first choice penalty killer.  He does usually play the PK, but generally on the 2nd unit.

He is better on offense than defense.  Maybe this is an unfair comparison but I think he is like a better Risto.

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, Curt said:

I always thought that he wasn’t anything above average defensively.  He is a big beastly physical specimen, so maybe that makes people think he is a good defender?  He has rarely been a first choice penalty killer.  He does usually play the PK, but generally on the 2nd unit.

He is better on offense than defense.  Maybe this is an unfair comparison but I think he is like a better Risto.

Well that turns me off rather fast lol. 

[Huckleberry]

Im just more worried about his injury history.

24 yrs old, wrist, both knees and couple other things.

[kas23]

33 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Im just more worried about his injury history.

24 yrs old, wrist, both knees and couple other things.

I didn’t realize he had such an extensive injury history. The most games he has played in his career was 68 and this was his rookie season in 2016. I don’t think I would be giving up much more than a 1st for him. Maybe a 1st in 2024 and an above average prospect, like Rosen or Johnson. 

[Digger]

Chychrun certainly has a great shot when he's playing well.  I too wonder about his overall health.  He's never played a full season of 82 games.  Some players just seem injury prone (think about Bogosian who was never healthy when we needed him).  I would definitely consider a trade for him but most likely not at Arizona's reported ask.  It will be interesting to see what they get for him when the trade does go down.

[klos1963]

30 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I didn’t realize he had such an extensive injury history. The most games he has played in his career was 68 and this was his rookie season in 2016. I don’t think I would be giving up much more than a 1st for him. Maybe a 1st in 2024 and an above average prospect, like Rosen or Johnson. 

I don't think Johnson would be considered an above average prospect, also his UFA status is a big value killer. He's not worth much at all.

[Huckleberry]

8 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

I don't think Johnson would be considered an above average prospect, also his UFA status is a big value killer. He's not worth much at all.

he is worth a late 2nd rounder if he doesn't sign.

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

he is worth a late 2nd rounder if he doesn't sign.

Yup.  That is the floor of his value.

[Contempt]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

He’s only played 55 minutes this season. 

Offense looks good, defense slightly below average 

This is what would give me significant pause. He hurts his knee, now suddenly they are willing to deal him away even though he has 2 more years left at a very reasonable number? That sounds very sketchy to me.

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Well that turns me off rather fast lol. 

[Brawndo]

19 minutes ago, Contempt said:

This is what would give me significant pause. He hurts his knee, now suddenly they are willing to deal him away even though he has 2 more years left at a very reasonable number? That sounds very sketchy to me.

From the Arizona Standpoint, they are 2-3 years from competing, the assets He would bring back are probably worth more to them. 

 

2 hours ago, Curt said:

I always thought that he wasn’t anything above average defensively.  He is a big beastly physical specimen, so maybe that makes people think he is a good defender?  He has rarely been a first choice penalty killer.  He does usually play the PK, but generally on the 2nd unit.

He is better on offense than defense.  Maybe this is an unfair comparison but I think he is like a better Risto.

 

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Well that turns me off rather fast lol. 

Using Evolving Hockey’s Model, Chychrun’s Worse Two Seasons Defensively where His D+1 and D+2, He was in the 50th and 42nd percentile for defenseman. Since then His lowest was 62nd, with most other seasons being above the 80th percentile. 
 

In comparison, using the same model Risto’s Best Season was the 26th percentile. From an analytics standpoint, Chychrun is much better than Risto. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Well that turns me off rather fast lol. 

He is not a defensive defenseman, but he is very good.

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Im just more worried about his injury history.

24 yrs old, wrist, both knees and couple other things.

This is what concerns me most as well.

[Contempt]

If the timeline isn't to start winning, at least a little, in the next 2 years idk what to say so he matches from that standpoint but I don't know that he brings the defensive improvement that we need. We need more than Samuelsson to be able to reliably defend. His injury history also concerns me quite a bit.  Certainly too much to consider ponying up what AZ is reported to want.

39 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

From the Arizona Standpoint, they are 2-3 years from competing, the assets He would bring back are probably worth more to them. 

I have 2 follow-up questions.

1. Isn't that the same timeline the Sabres appear to be on?

2. If #1 is true why do people have a fit when I suggest trading Olofsson?

[Brawndo]

 

[Zamboni]

I don’t mind them adding a player with some sandpaper to their game… It just better also be a player with decent IQ that doesn’t hurt their team a few times a game.
So stay far far far away from Zadorov.

[Brawndo]

The Burns Trade Friedman mentioned is probably the one that sent Burns from Minnesota to San Jose. 
The Wild traded Brent Burns and a 2012 second round pick to the Sharks in return for Devin Setoguchi, Charlie Coyle, and a 2011 first round pick

[Brawndo]

8 hours ago, Contempt said:

If the timeline isn't to start winning, at least a little, in the next 2 years idk what to say so he matches from that standpoint but I don't know that he brings the defensive improvement that we need. We need more than Samuelsson to be able to reliably defend. His injury history also concerns me quite a bit.  Certainly too much to consider ponying up what AZ is reported to want.

I have 2 follow-up questions.

1. Isn't that the same timeline the Sabres appear to be on?

2. If #1 is true why do people have a fit when I suggest trading Olofsson?

Based on Jeff Marek’s Comments on Saturday, it appears Adams feels the Sabres are ready to take the next step by adding veterans to their young core, so I would imagine that Sabres Timeline is much sooner. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Based on Jeff Marek’s Comments on Saturday, it appears Adams feels the Sabres are ready to take the next step by adding veterans to their young core, so I would imagine that Sabres Timeline is much sooner. 

and he didn't know that this off-season?  

[Curt]

22 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The Burns Trade Friedman mentioned is probably the one that sent Burns from Minnesota to San Jose. 
The Wild traded Brent Burns and a 2012 second round pick to the Sharks in return for Devin Setoguchi, Charlie Coyle, and a 2011 first round pick

For those of us with short memories:  Was Setoguchi considered a top prospect at that time?  I believe that Coyle was, right?

This is an open question for anyone to answer.

EDIT:  after review, it seems that Setoguchi was a 24 yr old coming off of 3 seasons where he scored 20-30 goals.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Curt

[thewookie1]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and he didn't know that this off-season?  

I think its more akin to next season; he's using this year to weed through their many NHL aged prospects and acquire pieces that may come available in the meantime.

For instance, due to injuries UPL and Mitts were both completely up in the air in regards to their future.

[Doohicksie]

51 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

So stay far far far away from Zadorov.

I can't imagine they'll touch anyone in that Zadorov/Risto domain.

[nfreeman]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and he didn't know that this off-season? 

You keep saying this, like there was a bountiful supply of good veteran NHL defensemen who wanted to come to Buffalo last summer but KA was too stubborn or dumb or smitten with Bryson and Fitzie to make a move.

The Sabres are firmly in the top 3 of almost every NHL player's "NFW do I want to go there" list.  KA, who strongly, and IMHO correctly, believes in bringing in and keeping only players who want to be here, has a very limited pool of players to choose from. 

This is going to remain the case until the Sabres become a solid playoff team and the arena is full and exciting most nights.

We can pretend otherwise all we like, but the cold reality is that most of the players in the league do not want to come here, so this team is going to live or die based on what's currently in the system, plus a few strategic and opportunistic acquisitions from outside.

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

You keep saying this, like there was a bountiful supply of good veteran NHL defensemen who wanted to come to Buffalo last summer but KA was too stubborn or dumb or smitten with Bryson and Fitzie to make a move.

The Sabres are firmly in the top 3 of almost every NHL player's "NFW do I want to go there" list.  KA, who strongly, and IMHO correctly, believes in bringing in and keeping only players who want to be here, has a very limited pool of players to choose from. 

This is going to remain the case until the Sabres become a solid playoff team and the arena is full and exciting most nights.

We can pretend otherwise all we like, but the cold reality is that most of the players in the league do not want to come here, so this team is going to live or die based on what's currently in the system, plus a few strategic and opportunistic acquisitions from outside.

Sad but true.  
 

The Bills were in the same boat before McDermott and Beane got there.  

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Isn’t he generally seen as pretty good defensively more than often?

Also he’s pretty physical if I remember correctly 

Sure but do you want to trade... 2023 1st (probably can get it top 10 protected), one of Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, one of the 2nds in 2023, and something else like Quinn or JJP for him? That is what they are asking, idk if that is what they get but they haven't budged yet. 

2023 1st, Östlund, 2023 2nd, JJP for Chychrun

Yes or No?