Are The Sabres A Dark Horse Contender for Jakob Chychrun?

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure but do you want to trade... 2023 1st (probably can get it top 10 protected), one of Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, one of the 2nds in 2023, and something else like Quinn or JJP for him? That is what they are asking, idk if that is what they get but they haven't budged yet. 

2023 1st, Östlund, 2023 2nd, JJP for Chychrun

Yes or No? 

That's a high price.  It could result in more than what the Sabres got for O'Reilly and Eichel.  

[thewookie1]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Sure but do you want to trade... 2023 1st (probably can get it top 10 protected), one of Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, one of the 2nds in 2023, and something else like Quinn or JJP for him? That is what they are asking, idk if that is what they get but they haven't budged yet. 

2023 1st, Östlund, 2023 2nd, JJP for Chychrun

Yes or No? 

No way

 

To me, the 2023 1st is untouchable as is the likes of Savoie, Kulich, Quinn and Peterka.

[Crusader1969]

13 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I can't imagine they'll touch anyone in that Zadorov/Risto domain.

Why the disdain for Zadorov? Plays over 20 mins a night for a cup contender.   Would love him as a 3rd pair Dman with the Sabres 

[Crusader1969]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure but do you want to trade... 2023 1st (probably can get it top 10 protected), one of Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, one of the 2nds in 2023, and something else like Quinn or JJP for him? That is what they are asking, idk if that is what they get but they haven't budged yet. 

2023 1st, Östlund, 2023 2nd, JJP for Chychrun

Yes or No? 

You lost me at Quinn or JJ.  No way they should give up either of those 

Arizona is said to be wanting 2 firsts 

lottery protected 2023 and Östlund fulfills that part of the trade.   
they also want a young roster player , the only one I can give up is Krebs…. Who is a first as well 

in that case , you probably are giving up one of the lower ranked prospects 

[nfreeman]

16 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Sad but true.  
 

The Bills were in the same boat before McDermott and Beane got there.  

Indeed.  I think TP has been trying to re-create the McD/BB magic with the Sabres with his last couple of GM hires in Botteril and KA.  JB did some good things but at the end of the day was simply not good enough at evaluating NHL talent on the ice or behind the bench, plus he made multiple boneheaded moves that embarrassed the franchise, albeit not in the same way that guys like Tim Murray, Rex Ryan and Russ Brandon did.

The jury is still very much out on KA.  There are plenty of promising signs, but at the same time he is accountable for the results.  The team needs to show real improvement on the ice and in the standings -- not just another modest garbage-time late-season winning streak.  If Comrie washes out and/or the team doesn't come close to 88ish points this year and/or Dahlin doesn't want to sign an extension next summer, it will be more than fair to criticize KA.

[GASabresIUFAN]

26 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

You keep saying this, like there was a bountiful supply of good veteran NHL defensemen who wanted to come to Buffalo last summer but KA was too stubborn or dumb or smitten with Bryson and Fitzie to make a move.

The Sabres are firmly in the top 3 of almost every NHL player's "NFW do I want to go there" list.  KA, who strongly, and IMHO correctly, believes in bringing in and keeping only players who want to be here, has a very limited pool of players to choose from. 

This is going to remain the case until the Sabres become a solid playoff team and the arena is full and exciting most nights.

We can pretend otherwise all we like, but the cold reality is that most of the players in the league do not want to come here, so this team is going to live or die based on what's currently in the system, plus a few strategic and opportunistic acquisitions from outside.

I've heard this argument forever and it doesn't hold water.  Lyubushkin signed here. Comrie signed here. Tuch was thrilled to get traded here.  Okposo wanted to be here.  Vinnie wanted to stay etc....  

The Sabres have three major things going for them.  Money, opportunity, and proximity to Canada.  They also have a coach players respect and a talented young team with guys like Power, Dahlin, Tuch, Tnt who other players want to play with. 

If KA had seriously wanted to find 1 or 2 more veteran D to play a depth role here he'd have found them.  

In addition, there has been and always will be a trade market.  Sometimes you have to acquire someone outside free agency or the draft to fill roster holes.  KA knew full well that Fitz and Pilut were not adequate depth.  

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

You lost me at Quinn or JJ.  No way they should give up either of those 

Arizona is said to be wanting 2 firsts 

lottery protected 2023 and Östlund fulfills that part of the trade.   
they also want a young roster player , the only one I can give up is Krebs…. Who is a first as well 

in that case , you probably are giving up one of the lower ranked prospects 

Your only modification to my trade is removing JJP for Krebs

2023 Lottery Protected 1st, Östlund, Krebs instead of JJP (I don't think Arizona does this), and a 2nd in 2023 (probably the middle 2nd).

Really quickly, Krebs being a 1st round pick is somewhat irrelevant right now. Again though, this is the reported asking price, are ppl willing to pay that for Chychrun?

26 minutes ago, Eleven said:

That's a high price.  It could result in more than what the Sabres got for O'Reilly and Eichel.  

Those are the key words though. Risk is involved and Arizona is rebuilding. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure but do you want to trade... 2023 1st (probably can get it top 10 protected), one of Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, one of the 2nds in 2023, and something else like Quinn or JJP for him? That is what they are asking, idk if that is what they get but they haven't budged yet. 

2023 1st, Östlund, 2023 2nd, JJP for Chychrun

Yes or No? 

No, no and no.  I'm not moving JJP (or Quinn) under any circumstances.  A top 10 protected 2023 1st, Östlund, the rights to Johnson and a 2nd in 2024 would be plenty.  

Edited November 28, 2022 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

No way

 

To me, the 2023 1st is untouchable as is the likes of Savoie, Kulich, Quinn and Peterka. (Östlund)

At least 2 of the things listed here would need to be in the Chychrun trade if I am Arizona (I added Östlund back in to what you listed btw). I bet you can lottery protect the 1st but it is in that trade, no chance in hell they will move Chychrun without a shot at another 2023 first. 

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No, no and no.  A top 10 protected  2023 1st, Östlund, the rights to Johnson and a 2nd in 2024 would be plenty.  

They aren't taking Johnson unless that replaces the 2nd round pick. They know as well as Adams that Johnson can go to August and become a UFA. 

Look, I am telling you what it would probably take to get him. If it were less than that, Chyrchun would have been moved. If a a 2024 1st, Johnson, a 2023 2nd, and Mitts would get it done, it would be done. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure but do you want to trade... 2023 1st (probably can get it top 10 protected), one of Kulich, Östlund, Savoie, one of the 2nds in 2023, and something else like Quinn or JJP for him? That is what they are asking, idk if that is what they get but they haven't budged yet. 

2023 1st, Östlund, 2023 2nd, JJP for Chychrun

Yes or No? 

NO.  A big NO.  This guy has an injury history and he could be gone to Florida after 2 more seasons.

After thinking this over I think he is a big risk even at two #1's.  Östlund and a 2023 2nd.  That is it from me.  

Instead, we find a defensive player that is more reliable, even if less offensive skills.  

Add Edit:  I am reading these posts and I see people offering 4 or 5 pieces and throwing away assets.  For what?  Is this guy a difference maker?  No.   We have Power and Dahlin already, they are both better.  

I can see him going to Florida or Tampa when the contract ends. Meanwhile, Östlund and JJP/Krebs are hitting their stride out in the desert.  Plus we are giving up prime picks on top of it.  

Not for me.  

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

Actually they are going to need a replacement for Chychrun in the lineup.  Bryson needs to be included in the deal.  

A top 10 protected 1st in 2023, Östlund, Bryson, the rights to Johnson (or the second we get if he doesn’t sign) and a 2nd in 2024. 

If Johnson signs, that would be 3 1st rd picks for Chychrun, plus a 2nd and a depth NHL D.  That 5 pieces. If he doesn’t sign, it is still 5 pieces but 2 1sts and 2nds and a depth D.  That’s more then he is worth.

I’d go as far as swapping Krebs for Johnson.

 

[bob_sauve28]

15 hours ago, Taro T said:

Then basically you are saying they shouldn't trade for any high end guy who's already on/ past his 2nd contract.  Because it's very rare for those guys to get traded with more than 2-3 years left before they're UFAs.

Basically, but you know, if the price is right. But two first rounders? No way 

[kas23]

I still don’t think we need to send that many assets out for an oft-injured player. He’s a great player when healthy, but he’s not what we need, which is a right-handed Muel clone. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

15 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Tempting as it might be, no way should we be giving away two first round picks for a guy who will only be here a few years 

What's to say he doesn't like it here and in two years the Sabres should be winning a lot more.

[Doohicksie]

48 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Why the disdain for Zadorov? Plays over 20 mins a night for a cup contender.   Would love him as a 3rd pair Dman with the Sabres 

He takes too many bad penalties.  Like stupid bad.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So a perfect fit for the Sabres then? 

*Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar, you're gonna go far*

[Derrico]

On 11/27/2022 at 2:50 AM, thewookie1 said:

I'd offer Östlund, Jokiharju, Mitts and our 2nd in 2023 but our 1sts are off limits 

I’m fine including future 1st but they HAVE to be Atleast top 10 protected. 

[Stoner]

Not a'tall sure who he is, but he has a solid A hockey name. Good enough for me. He even sounds tough. Those two K sounds are nice.

[nfreeman]

57 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I've heard this argument forever and it doesn't hold water.  Lyubushkin signed here. Comrie signed here. Tuch was thrilled to get traded here.  Okposo wanted to be here.  Vinnie wanted to stay etc....  

The Sabres have three major things going for them.  Money, opportunity, and proximity to Canada.  They also have a coach players respect and a talented young team with guys like Power, Dahlin, Tuch, Tnt who other players want to play with. 

If KA had seriously wanted to find 1 or 2 more veteran D to play a depth role here he'd have found them.  

In addition, there has been and always will be a trade market.  Sometimes you have to acquire someone outside free agency or the draft to fill roster holes.  KA knew full well that Fitz and Pilut were not adequate depth.  

If you're talking about 6/7 defensemen, OK, but those aren't difference-makers.  What do you think would've happened on the 8-game losing streak if they'd signed a Pysyk equivalent?  Maybe 1-7 instead of 0-8? 

Regarding Comrie -- he is one of the limited pool of guys I referred to.  You'll recall that he was their 2nd choice, after Matt Murray, who refused to come here.

As for trades, the "guys who want to be here" applies there too.  KA isn't going to trade for someone who doesn't want to be here.

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, nfreeman said:

If you're talking about 6/7 defensemen, OK, but those aren't difference-makers.  What do you think would've happened on the 8-game losing streak if they'd signed a Pysyk equivalent?  Maybe 1-7 instead of 0-8? 

Regarding Comrie -- he is one of the limited pool of guys I referred to.  You'll recall that he was their 2nd choice, after Matt Murray, who refused to come here.

As for trades, the "guys who want to be here" applies there too.  KA isn't going to trade for someone who doesn't want to be here.

2-6.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I've heard this argument forever and it doesn't hold water.  Lyubushkin signed here. Comrie signed here. Tuch was thrilled to get traded here.  Okposo wanted to be here.  Vinnie wanted to stay etc....  

The Sabres have three major things going for them.  Money, opportunity, and proximity to Canada.  They also have a coach players respect and a talented young team with guys like Power, Dahlin, Tuch, Tnt who other players want to play with. 

If KA had seriously wanted to find 1 or 2 more veteran D to play a depth role here he'd have found them.  

In addition, there has been and always will be a trade market.  Sometimes you have to acquire someone outside free agency or the draft to fill roster holes.  KA knew full well that Fitz and Pilut were not adequate depth.  

When we get into the " players don't want to sign here" argument I think of three types of players.  (1) The young rising players that are becoming UFAs, (2) veterans that are top players in their prime and want to win, and (3) veterans at the late stages of their career that will sign for less to play on a winner.  

Lyubushkin, Comrie, Okposso, and Vinne do not fit any of these categories.  Kyle did fit into (2), and now (3), but he is here already.  Tuch fits into (2) and he is an outlier based the trade and on his attraction to the area.  

I think the " players don't want to sign here" argument is still valid but I think it can be erased by winning teams, FO stability, and sold-out arenas - like the good old days. 

The rest of your argument - money, opportunity, and Proximity to Canada, lets look at that.   

Money - every team spends to the cap except for the bad ones, like Buffalo.  Pegula's big bank account means nothing if he doesn't use it.  If he uses it, he uses it to the cap.  

Opportunity - it got us Luby and Comrie and Vinnie, the level of player that just wants a chance to play.  

Proximity to Canada - This was once a thing, back in the 70's, 80's and 90's.  It is not anymore and has not been for a long time. First of all, 57% of the players in the NHL are not Canadian.  Even Canadian players (and their wives) have avoided places like Edmonton and Winnepeg and Quebec in the past.  Some modern players, and some modern players' wives, really like Florida, the southern cities, the West Coast and the lifestyle it provides.  I am certain there are players from Southern Ontario and all other parts of Canada that would enjoy Buffalo if the team was competitive, but this is not a thing like it used to be.  

Final comment, I agree with you that KA can find some better veteran players.  He is sticking to his plan that prioritizes the internal development of drafted players.   We don't know if he is still constrained by Pegula's "efficient and economic" policies that were put in place at the Botterill firing.  It seems to me that he is.  

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

He takes too many bad penalties.  Like stupid bad.

But he has grit.  Grit often leads to penalties. 

 

I don't like him because he is a bonehead.  

[pi2000]

2 firsts? No thanks.

I'd offer Mittlestadt, Ryan Johnson (rights), and a 2nd.

[Doohicksie]

Just now, pi2000 said:

2 firsts? No thanks.

I'd offer Mittlestadt, Ryan Johnson (rights), and a 2nd.

After watching the Eichel trade play out, you know that any rumored trade returns are merely negotiating positions, not minimum acceptable offers.

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

After watching the Eichel trade play out, you know that any rumored trade returns are merely negotiating positions, not minimum acceptable offers.

Adams got almost exactly what he said the price was.