Trade targets

[Andrew Amerk]

3 hours ago, Refuting said:

POULIOT 

Who?

[Quint]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:01 PM, Porous Five Hole said:

I agree with you…the scuttlebutt is from the frustrated Rangers fanbase and not the organization.  

However, the comp to Krebs is not a good one. The pedigree of 1OA isn’t close to Krebs. I understand the line of thinking…young forward to young forward…but Imagine the Sabres scratching Power halfway through next season. That’s the pedigree of comp to consider (albeit different position). 

Not to mention Laf is getting protected minutes comparable to third liner Barklay Goodrow. It is going very poorly for him. 

I keep hearing two drawbacks about the 21 year old Lafreniere. The first is consistency and the second is lack of speed and you can't teach speed. But Vanek wasn't speedy either...

Edited January 1, 2023 by Quint

[Brawndo]

Has a M NTC, but 
 

Adding a pick or a prospect for Him would be great currency for this offseason.

A buyout this summer is 2.8 million 2023-24 and 833k for 2024-25. That’s worth it for a pick.

And His Defensive Metrics are better than Lyubuskin and Fitzgerald for this season 

[sweetlou]

St. Louis about to drop in standings as they lose O'reilly and Taresenko long term to injuries.  

I've always like Niko Mikkola on LD.  He would be a great 3rd paring with Boosh or Joker.  Is a UFA but playing with fellow Finns in Joker and UPL could convince him to stay.

[Marvin]

58 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

St. Louis about to drop in standings as they lose O'reilly and Taresenko long term to injuries.  

I've always like Niko Mikkola on LD.  He would be a great 3rd paring with Boosh or Joker.  Is a UFA but playing with fellow Finns in Joker and UPL could convince him to stay.

This makes sense to me.  Probably low cost and fills a need.

[dudacek]

It’s interesting that the Sabres are being utilized in a way that absolutely reflects the huge current gap between their top 3 defenceman and their bottom 3.

In December:

• Dahlin 26:24
• Samuelsson 24:14
• Power 23:41
• Clague 15:55 (but under 13 when Power was in the lineup)
• lyubushkin 14:56
• Bryson 12:58
• Fitzpatrick 12:56
• Pilut 12:18

Taking PPs into account, there are about 110 minutes available a night for defencemen. The big 3 are eating up 75 of them while the others share 35.

And Donnie is now spinning that in such a way that we’re maybe looking at just 5-10 minutes a night where he’s icing Bryson/Lyubushkin or worse.

However, that includes large stretches where someone on the big 3 is carrying a much lesser partner.

Adding Jokiharju is going to make a huge difference in reducing the workload of the big three and the amount of sheltering that is occurring.

Adding Jokiharju and someone as good or better than Jokiharju would tilt the ice significantly and might be the critical mass necessary to push this team over the top, more than any other change.

An underrated factor in our offensive explosion this year is ability of our D (mostly Power and Dahlin) to jumpstart the rush capabilities of our forwards from the back end. That’s why Granato likes Jokiharju and (to a lesser extent) Bryson better than you do. That first pass is the bedrock upon which our system works.

The ideal acquisition for this team is someone who is able to blunt rush attacks and turn the puck back up-ice quickly to feed our rushing forwards. He would also be stout physically and able to kill penalties and provide strong 2nd pair play, with the ability to move up to the 1st pair if needed.

Off-ice it has always made sense for Adams to stay away from the big-name high-salary Horvat-type commitments and instead use his trade capital to target Tuch or Thompson circa 2021 types: in the sense that they are people still under team control, young enough to augment our core, and who might benefit from the chance of being cast into a new role.

If the price is right, Jakob Chychrun makes a lot of sense on a lot of levels.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Basically, for 30 minutes a game, you’d have:

• Dahlin/Mule
• Chychrun/Power

dominating ES possession.

Another 20 shifts a night will be special teams.

And another 20 shifts a night will be one of the big 4 with Boosh or Joki, leaving 10 shifts a game where you ice Boosh and Joki in low-risk situations, where they should be more than capable.

Basically, you’d run:

• Dahlin 24
• Power 22
• Chychrun 21
• Samuelsson 21
• Jokiharju 15
• Lyubushkin 12

Or something similar as your base deployment.

And each guy in the lineup would be more than capable of stepping into the shoes of the guy above him in the case of injury.

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It’s interesting that the Sabres are being utilized in a way that absolutely reflects the huge current gap between their top 3 defenceman and their bottom 3.

In December:

• Dahlin 26:24
• Samuelsson 24:14
• Power 23:41
• Clague 15:55 (but under 13 when Power was in the lineup)
• lyubushkin 14:56
• Bryson 12:58
• Fitzpatrick 12:56
• Pilut 12:18

Taking PPs into account, there are about 110 minutes available a night for defencemen. The big 3 are eating up 75 of them while the others share 35.

And Donnie is now spinning that in such a way that we’re maybe looking at just 5-10 minutes a night where he’s icing Bryson/Lyubushkin or worse.

However, that includes large stretches where someone on the big 3 is carrying a much lesser partner.

Adding Jokiharju is going to make a huge difference in reducing the workload of the big three and the amount of sheltering that is occurring.

Adding Jokiharju and someone as good or better than Jokiharju would tilt the ice significantly and might be the critical mass necessary to push this team over the top, more than any other change.

An underrated factor in our offensive explosion this year is ability of our D (mostly Power and Dahlin) to jumpstart the rush capabilities of our forwards from the back end. That’s why Granato likes Jokiharju and (to a lesser extent) Bryson better than you do. That first pass is the bedrock upon which our system works.

The ideal acquisition for this team is someone who is able to blunt rush attacks and turn the puck back up-ice quickly to feed our rushing forwards. He would also be stout physically and able to kill penalties and provide strong 2nd pair play .with the ability to move up to the 1st pair if needed.

Off-ice it has always made sense for Adams to stay away from the big-name high-salary Horvat-type commitments and instead use his trade capital to target Tuch or Thompson circa 2021 types: in the sense that they are people still under team control, young enough to augment our core, and who might benefit from the chance of being cast into a new role.

If the price is right, Jakob Chychrun makes a lot of sense on a lot of levels

And right now, in a 1 goal game protecting a lead in the 3rd Lyubushkin is the 4th D-man w/ Bryson & Clague glued to the bench.  But in a 1 goal game tring to get that tying goal in the 3rd, Clague is the 4 & the 3rd pairing was glued to the bench.

Interesting how this weekend, Bryson was the odd man out in both situations.

[DarthEbriate]

Arizona wants the equivalent of 3 firsts (more or less) though, so I can't imagine that you can get Chychrun without including Joker (unless Ryan Johnson were already signed and you could give them either), but they wouldn't want Johnson because he can walk. But a package like Rosen+Joker+2023 BUF 1st lottery protected (we'd still retain 3 2023 seconds) or 2023 2nd (Philly's so it's top-40)? I am reluctant to move any 2023 picks, but to have a top-4 d-corps like that for a few more seasons at minimum as the forwards grow up would be pretty solid.

[kas23]

I’d trade them Savoie and change for Chychrun. Even though I’m hesitant based on his injury history. 

[thewookie1]

38 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I’d trade them Savoie and change for Chychrun. Even though I’m hesitant based on his injury history. 

I’d love to kill this whole idea of trading Savoie and a 1st. It is short sighted and idiotic.

[LGR4GM]

Something to think about, he is a 6' 185lb RHD

 

[Flashsabre]

46 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Something to think about, he is a 6' 185lb RHD

 

I wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole. Massive head case all through his junior career. One of those players who the headache will always overshadow the ability. HARD NO

[kas23]

20 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I’d love to kill this whole idea of trading Savoie and a 1st. It is short sighted and idiotic.

We have goal scorers. Looking at our current roster, we will eventually need players to fill in our 3rd/4th line. Are you suggesting these types of players are needed more than a 3/4 defenseman? is Savoie this type of player? I get it Savoie is highly touted and am not suggesting he a bust, but you need to trade quality for quality. No one else in our pipeline would really move the needle for Chychrun and I’m not moving the 2023 1st. 

[French Collection]

Many on here have said that RHD is an issue now and going forward. Grit is another quality discussed.

I have some time on my hands so I thought about a couple of players I have mentioned before.

Matt Dumba, Marcus Foligno, David Spacek and a conditional 2nd round pick.

Victor Olofsson, Casey Mittelstadt and Ryan Johnson.

The Sabres get grittier immediately with Foligno and Dumba. Foligno is on the back 9 of his career but still has a few seasons left to contribute. He is signed for 2 years at $3.1M aav. Dumba is $6M for this season and is a UFA in July. If he is a good fit he will need to be convinced to extend. The 2nd rounder is insurance if he leaves. Spacek is 19 year old RHD playing for Czechia in the WJs. He is the son of former Sabre Jaro Spacek. I would say Foligno and Spacek would meet KA’s requirement of wanting to be in Buffalo while Dumba has only ever played in Minny.

 

VO and Mitts don’t seem to fit in as well now or in the future. Minnesota has said they lack scoring, need cap space and probably can’t extend Dumba. They are short on natural centres and Mitts is from there. Johnson plays at Minnesota and they get a second rounder if he doesn’t sign there. He is a LHD which the Sabres have a lot of.

The Sabres get older but these guys are a bridge until the prospects are ready and a better fit than Mitts and VO.

 

 

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

We have goal scorers. Looking at our current roster, we will eventually need players to fill in our 3rd/4th line. Are you suggesting these types of players are needed more than a 3/4 defenseman? is Savoie this type of player? I get it Savoie is highly touted and am not suggesting he a bust, but you need to trade quality for quality. No one else in our pipeline would really move the needle for Chychrun and I’m not moving the 2023 1st. 

Couple things:

Chychurn has been bad on his right side. Any trade for Chychurn likely means Power is moving to Rd or Chychurn is playing on the third pair. Power moving to Rd may work out, but most defenseman are significantly worse on their off-hand. I would not pay the cost to put Chychurn on the third pair, and doubt it would be worth it to move Power to Rd and pay for Chychurn. Especially when considering how much Chychurn has been hurt.

There’s also nothing wrong with having goal scorers on the third line. The panther’s regular season success last season was a good chunk due to the depth of their forwards and being able to score with their bottom 6. The Avalanche last year had Burkakovsky on their third line, helping them win a cup. In a couple years we could have a second line caliber third line with Krebs/Östlund/Kulich/Savoie/Rosen. 

A major driver of Chychurn’s trade value is his contract, which Buffalo wouldn’t get as much benefit from when compared to other teams. After this season, he’ll have 2 more years at 4.6 million, which is good value for the play you’d be getting. Sabres are not expected to be tight on cap during those seasons, so there is less value in his contract when compared to other buyers. However, by the time that contract expires, Dahlin and Power will likely (hopefully) be signed to big deals, and it’d be hard to fit another big defenseman contract. 

A trade would probably end up being 2.5 years of Chychurn for 7(+\-) years of Savoie, 7(+\-) years of 2023 draft pick +. That is not something I have interest in. 

 

 

[Porous Five Hole]

20 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Many on here have said that RHD is an issue now and going forward. Grit is another quality discussed.

I have some time on my hands so I thought about a couple of players I have mentioned before.

Matt Dumba, Marcus Foligno, David Spacek and a conditional 2nd round pick.

Victor Olofsson, Casey Mittelstadt and Ryan Johnson.

The Sabres get grittier immediately with Foligno and Dumba. Foligno is on the back 9 of his career but still has a few seasons left to contribute. He is signed for 2 years at $3.1M aav. Dumba is $6M for this season and is a UFA in July. If he is a good fit he will need to be convinced to extend. The 2nd rounder is insurance if he leaves. Spacek is 19 year old RHD playing for Czechia in the WJs. He is the son of former Sabre Jaro Spacek. I would say Foligno and Spacek would meet KA’s requirement of wanting to be in Buffalo while Dumba has only ever played in Minny.

 

VO and Mitts don’t seem to fit in as well now or in the future. Minnesota has said they lack scoring, need cap space and probably can’t extend Dumba. They are short on natural centres and Mitts is from there. Johnson plays at Minnesota and they get a second rounder if he doesn’t sign there. He is a LHD which the Sabres have a lot of.

The Sabres get older but these guys are a bridge until the prospects are ready and a better fit than Mitts and VO.

 

 

Why would the Wild do this?

[steveoath]

Don't they get absolutely hammered with the 2 buyouts? They need low cost players.  

 

 

 

edit. I believe the parise and suter buyouts are done.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by steveoath

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 1/2/2023 at 1:43 PM, dudacek said:

It’s interesting that the Sabres are being utilized in a way that absolutely reflects the huge current gap between their top 3 defenceman and their bottom 3.

In December:

• Dahlin 26:24
• Samuelsson 24:14
• Power 23:41
• Clague 15:55 (but under 13 when Power was in the lineup)
• lyubushkin 14:56
• Bryson 12:58
• Fitzpatrick 12:56
• Pilut 12:18

Taking PPs into account, there are about 110 minutes available a night for defencemen. The big 3 are eating up 75 of them while the others share 35.

And Donnie is now spinning that in such a way that we’re maybe looking at just 5-10 minutes a night where he’s icing Bryson/Lyubushkin or worse.

However, that includes large stretches where someone on the big 3 is carrying a much lesser partner.

Adding Jokiharju is going to make a huge difference in reducing the workload of the big three and the amount of sheltering that is occurring.

Adding Jokiharju and someone as good or better than Jokiharju would tilt the ice significantly and might be the critical mass necessary to push this team over the top, more than any other change.

An underrated factor in our offensive explosion this year is ability of our D (mostly Power and Dahlin) to jumpstart the rush capabilities of our forwards from the back end. That’s why Granato likes Jokiharju and (to a lesser extent) Bryson better than you do. That first pass is the bedrock upon which our system works.

The ideal acquisition for this team is someone who is able to blunt rush attacks and turn the puck back up-ice quickly to feed our rushing forwards. He would also be stout physically and able to kill penalties and provide strong 2nd pair play, with the ability to move up to the 1st pair if needed.

Off-ice it has always made sense for Adams to stay away from the big-name high-salary Horvat-type commitments and instead use his trade capital to target Tuch or Thompson circa 2021 types: in the sense that they are people still under team control, young enough to augment our core, and who might benefit from the chance of being cast into a new role.

If the price is right, Jakob Chychrun makes a lot of sense on a lot of levels.

 

Haven't I been saying this for months.  I was told it was a developmental season and no changes should be made.  Thanks for joining the band wagon.  KA do something already. Fix the D depth on this team and we'll have a real shot at the playoffs. 

[Broken Ankles]

3 hours ago, kas23 said:

We have goal scorers. Looking at our current roster, we will eventually need players to fill in our 3rd/4th line. Are you suggesting these types of players are needed more than a 3/4 defenseman? is Savoie this type of player? I get it Savoie is highly touted and am not suggesting he a bust, but you need to trade quality for quality. No one else in our pipeline would really move the needle for Chychrun and I’m not moving the 2023 1st. 

How is a 2023 1st better than Savoie? In terms of your value. If their progress continues the selection could be mid-round.  Plus you are waiting another year for development.  The 2023 could be less skilled and not available to join the team until 2026. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, steveoath said:

Don't they get absolutely hammered with the 2 buyouts? They need low cost players.  

edit. I believe the parise and suter buyouts are done.

Done? No. 

7.37mil against the cap both next year and the following... x2. 14.74mil in total. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Matt Dumba, Marcus Foligno, David Spacek and a conditional 2nd round pick.

Victor Olofsson, Casey Mittelstadt and Ryan Johnson.

Well that's a fun trade but would probably mean the Wild GM was on crack. Why on earth would they make a deal like this so obviously favouring the Sabres? I would do this deal in a second, even if we couldn't sign Dumba. 

[Crusader1969]

On 1/2/2023 at 2:29 PM, kas23 said:

I’d trade them Savoie and change for Chychrun. Even though I’m hesitant based on his injury history. 

Not sure I would call a future first round draft pick “change”

4 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I wouldn’t touch him with a 10 foot pole. Massive head case all through his junior career. One of those players who the headache will always overshadow the ability. HARD NO

I remember the same thing with him playing for Guelph.  
Turnover machine. Probably a decent PP qb.  Not what the Sabres are needing at this time 

[French Collection]

2 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Why would the Wild do this?

They get younger.

They add secondary scoring, VO and Mitts both have almost twice as many points than Foligno and Dumba.

Mitts is from there and may become a Tuch like inspiration. 

They are thin at C.

Cap space.

They probably lose Dumba to UFA.

 

I find the Sabres are taking a risk here, Foligno might be done and Dumba could bolt.
 

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by French Collection

[French Collection]

39 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well that's a fun trade but would probably mean the Wild GM was on crack. Why on earth would they make a deal like this so obviously favouring the Sabres? I would do this deal in a second, even if we couldn't sign Dumba. 

I find the Sabres would be taking a risk.

Sabres getting 31 year Foligno, 11 points in 28 games. Dumba may leave. Spacek may not pan out.

VO is a 20G player and could get 30 in the right situation. Mitts could be their 2C and get 50 pts. Johnson is more ready than Spacek.

I used the 2 most expendable guys that we see every day.