Trade targets

[Buffalonill]

On 11/28/2022 at 4:56 PM, Zamboni said:

Alex Ovechkin ladies and gentlemen

 

Wasn't he close to being a buffalo sabre at the deadline 

[Norcal]

On 12/1/2022 at 12:42 PM, PerreaultForever said:

There's no argument here so I'm not sure what the point is. As you well know the contracts for Tage, and especially Samuelsson were questioned around the league and considered generous and perhaps too generous for young players. Restricted free agents have limited leverage and these were generous offers so they signed. It is a business for them too. Eichel signed a big long deal too right? Who wouldn't? Drafted players have limited options and I never said people hated to be here, just that they didn't choose to be here. It relates to trades, no trade lists and free agents not young players who have limited options.

Vinnie is a scrub who got offered a contract. Better than joining the KHL Means nothing. Anderson is an old over the hill goalie who gets to play one more year and make some good coin for his retirement. Nobody else would sign him. Comrie was a career back up offered a chance to start so he'd go anywhere for that too. Lybushkin got offered more than he'd get elsewhere. He's a mercenary like most Russians are. I would suggest that Russian UFAs might be good targets for the Sabres as most of them are mercenaries in their thinking. They are here for the cash. 

Kyle was overpaid by Murray and the stigma was not there when he signed. You know that. Skinner wanted to be near S. Ontario and held them ransom for an obscene overpay you know that too. Neither strengthens your argument. 

ZG and VO were both paid more here than they'd get somewhere else. Not sure they had any better options that were even close. 

Casey Fitzgerald? Seriously? Come on man. 

You know full well this team is at the top of no trade lists. This might change, but the way to change it is to win. 

Aren't you really just a Bruin fan masquerading as a Sabres fan nowadays? 

It feels like you enjoy wallowing in the mishandling of the Sabres franchise and moreover than not you are just here pointing out all that is wrong. 

I know you've been here a long time but wouldn't you rather be off celebrating your new teams success?

 

[tom webster]

On 12/1/2022 at 3:42 PM, PerreaultForever said:

There's no argument here so I'm not sure what the point is. As you well know the contracts for Tage, and especially Samuelsson were questioned around the league and considered generous and perhaps too generous for young players. Restricted free agents have limited leverage and these were generous offers so they signed. It is a business for them too. Eichel signed a big long deal too right? Who wouldn't? Drafted players have limited options and I never said people hated to be here, just that they didn't choose to be here. It relates to trades, no trade lists and free agents not young players who have limited options.

Vinnie is a scrub who got offered a contract. Better than joining the KHL Means nothing. Anderson is an old over the hill goalie who gets to play one more year and make some good coin for his retirement. Nobody else would sign him. Comrie was a career back up offered a chance to start so he'd go anywhere for that too. Lybushkin got offered more than he'd get elsewhere. He's a mercenary like most Russians are. I would suggest that Russian UFAs might be good targets for the Sabres as most of them are mercenaries in their thinking. They are here for the cash. 

Kyle was overpaid by Murray and the stigma was not there when he signed. You know that. Skinner wanted to be near S. Ontario and held them ransom for an obscene overpay you know that too. Neither strengthens your argument. 

ZG and VO were both paid more here than they'd get somewhere else. Not sure they had any better options that were even close. 

Casey Fitzgerald? Seriously? Come on man. 

You know full well this team is at the top of no trade lists. This might change, but the way to change it is to win. 

I missed this earlier, Kyle was not overpaid. He was the top free agent of his class and wanted to be here.  
 

I said I was done with this dialogue but this is just flat out wrong.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, Norcal said:

Aren't you really just a Bruin fan masquerading as a Sabres fan nowadays? 

It feels like you enjoy wallowing in the mishandling of the Sabres franchise and moreover than not you are just here pointing out all that is wrong. 

I know you've been here a long time but wouldn't you rather be off celebrating your new teams success?

 

I am on a Bruins website and it's VERY different to this one. The bar is so much higher and players get critiqued with the slightest drop off. I don't post there much but it is kind of a fun (for me personally) comparison to read. 

I think I've told my story several times. I grew up in Hamilton. Dad was an immigrant, not a hockey fan, so no hockey in my house until I started watching. Turned on the playoff game with the Bobby Orr ariel goal and thought ya, that team's pretty cool. They also wore black and gold just like my home town Hamilton Tiger Cats so they were my first team. hated Montreal right away.

Local tv showing Sabres games. Saw the French Connection. Sabres beat Montreal. Fell in love with that team and the whole vibe and they became my number one. As it was for years. over the last decade I've enjoyed my #2 team (fortunately for me) win a lot as the Sabres floundered. It's given me something to enjoy. Soon, I expect the tables will turn and the Sabres will be the better team again. At least I hope so. 

Watching both a lot though so I do compare them. Bruins keep defying the odds and getting things right while the Sabres still come up short. What I keep pointing to is their superior team culture. I want that for the Sabres. I want it bad. I really miss the early days, the Peca years, all the good old teams. It's really really hard to stay a Sabres fan. I'm getting old and impatient. 

I live on the west coast now. As I've said, I am comparing the new rebuild here with the Kraken to see who has the better plan. Guess what? I'm falling in love with the Kraken. team has spunk, fire, absolutely no quit and massive effort. Beniers is going to be a superstar. They shouldn't be ahead of the Sabres yet, but they are. It's like the powers that be really don't want me to stay a Sabres fan. I'm tip toeing along the edge.

[tom webster]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I am on a Bruins website and it's VERY different to this one. The bar is so much higher and players get critiqued with the slightest drop off. I don't post there much but it is kind of a fun (for me personally) comparison to read. 

I think I've told my story several times. I grew up in Hamilton. Dad was an immigrant, not a hockey fan, so no hockey in my house until I started watching. Turned on the playoff game with the Bobby Orr ariel goal and thought ya, that team's pretty cool. They also wore black and gold just like my home town Hamilton Tiger Cats so they were my first team. hated Montreal right away.

Local tv showing Sabres games. Saw the French Connection. Sabres beat Montreal. Fell in love with that team and the whole vibe and they became my number one. As it was for years. over the last decade I've enjoyed my #2 team (fortunately for me) win a lot as the Sabres floundered. It's given me something to enjoy. Soon, I expect the tables will turn and the Sabres will be the better team again. At least I hope so. 

Watching both a lot though so I do compare them. Bruins keep defying the odds and getting things right while the Sabres still come up short. What I keep pointing to is their superior team culture. I want that for the Sabres. I want it bad. I really miss the early days, the Peca years, all the good old teams. It's really really hard to stay a Sabres fan. I'm getting old and impatient. 

I live on the west coast now. As I've said, I am comparing the new rebuild here with the Kraken to see who has the better plan. Guess what? I'm falling in love with the Kraken. team has spunk, fire, absolutely no quit and massive effort. Beniers is going to be a superstar. They shouldn't be ahead of the Sabres yet, but they are. It's like the powers that be really don't want me to stay a Sabres fan. I'm tip toeing along the edge.

Seattle should be ahead for the same reasons Vegas had such early success. In fact, the Kraken should be even better except for some head scratching decisions in the expansion draft. 

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Seattle should be ahead for the same reasons Vegas had such early success. In fact, the Kraken should be even better except for some head scratching decisions in the expansion draft. 

Both Vegas and Seattle have had good starts from their inception because the respective organizations made a lot of good decisions. When you make a lot of decisions in the sports business not all of them are going to work out. But overall, there were more plus than minus decisions. I thought that Vegas worked the system like maestros to build a cup contending team right from the start. And the organization has continued to make some big consequential decisions such as for Jack and Stone to continue on with their successful pathway. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by JohnC

[kas23]

19 hours ago, Curt said:

Why is he so bad?  His numbers look pretty good.

We only pay attention to analytics when they support what our eyes see. 

[Buffalonill]

32 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Seattle should be ahead for the same reasons Vegas had such early success. In fact, the Kraken should be even better except for some head scratching decisions in the expansion draft. 

Matthew Beniers is why 

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Matthew Beniers is why 

They are older and more expensive. As I said, Buffalo is and should be a little behind them. Beniers looks like he’s going to be great but I’m still glad Buffalo took Powers and I’ll put Tage and Dylan up against any young pair if centers in the league. The future is bright as long as you look at it as year 2 and not year 12.

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Both Vegas and Seattle have had good starts from their inception because the respective organizations made a lot of good decisions. When you make a lot of decisions in the sports business not all of them are going to work out. But overall, there were more plus than minus decisions. I thought that Vegas worked the system like maestros to build a cup contending team right from the start. And the organization has continued to make some big consequential decisions such as for Jack and Stone to continue on with their successful pathway. 

Almost any franchise would have had the same success if given the chance to start over again. It’s far easier picking from a pool of veterans over junior players while still being allowed to pick junior players and start with $30-$40 million in cap space. Time will tell if they can sustain it. I find it pretty funny that Vegas’ owner gets props for his lack of patience and meddling. They started well this year but their reputation amongst players, which I’ve been told is vitally important, is showing stress cracks.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Matthew Beniers is why 

He looks like he will be great.  Good for Seattle to get him.

Power was always going to go number 1 no matter which team picked first.  Stud D are a lot harder to find.  The Sabres have 2 and Mule is probably going to be the best #3 in the NHL in a few years.

Good teams are built from the back end out.  Not the other way around.  At least 99% of the time.

[Hank]

21 hours ago, Curt said:

Why is he so bad?  His numbers look pretty good.

It's just the opinion of one Preds season ticket holder who's watched every minute of every game he's played while with the Preds, YMMV. Feel free to go to espn+ and watch his 10 minutes of ice time in the few games he was given before he was waived and make your own assessment. Or base your opinion off whatever chart Chad cherry picks to support his own opinion. 

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, Hank said:

It's just the opinion of one Preds season ticket holder who's watched every minute of every game he's played while with the Preds, YMMV. Feel free to go to espn+ and watch his 10 minutes of ice time in the few games he was given before he was waived and make your own assessment. Or base your opinion off whatever chart Chad cherry picks to support his own opinion. 

Please tone down the dismissivness.  I politely asked you what about him is bad.  If you are unable or unwilling to describe to me why you think he is bad, fine, but I very don’t make up my mind based on charts that someone tweets out.  I don’t even have Twitter and only ever see such charts if they are posted here.

[Hank]

Just now, Curt said:

Please tone down the dismissivness.  I politely asked you what about him is bad.  If you are unable or unwilling to describe to me why you think he is bad, fine, but I very don’t make up my mind based on charts that someone tweets out.  I don’t even have Twitter and only ever see such charts if they are posted here.

No dismissivness intended, apologies if it came across that way. Calling me unwilling to describe why he's bad is fair, as Myers is not someone I'm willing to find time and energy to discuss. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, tom webster said:

Seattle should be ahead for the same reasons Vegas had such early success. In fact, the Kraken should be even better except for some head scratching decisions in the expansion draft. 

How so? They did not get the deals/offers GMs made Vegas. Their expansion roster wasn't that great. They've added players and made some good signings. We could have added some as well but chose not to. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

Almost any franchise would have had the same success if given the chance to start over again. It’s far easier picking from a pool of veterans over junior players while still being allowed to pick junior players and start with $30-$40 million in cap space. Time will tell if they can sustain it. I find it pretty funny that Vegas’ owner gets props for his lack of patience and meddling. They started well this year but their reputation amongst players, which I’ve been told is vitally important, is showing stress cracks.

I respectfully disagree. Even with a favorable set up they made enough right decisions as an expansion team to be contenders right from the start. I'm not a Pegula basher because I do believe that the course for this franchise is finally set in the right direction. And as much criticism he has received for his stewardship he should be given credit for belatedly getting the right people to restructure this franchise. But let's also acknowledge the fact that in the first few years of ownership the Pegulas made a lot of strategic and personnel blunders that set this franchise back. 

[tom webster]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

How so? They did not get the deals/offers GMs made Vegas. Their expansion roster wasn't that great. They've added players and made some good signings. We could have added some as well but chose not to. 

Seattle didn’t take advantage of a lot of the deals that Vegas did but did load up on a lot of second and third line players resulting in their older roster and a more defensively sound line up which has allowed them to withstand their horrible goaltending. Jones and Grubauer are both below .900 save percentage. Other than Burakowski, most of their acquisitions are underwhelming. They hit a homerun getting Beniers and may have lucked out getting Wright although early returns aren’t great. I’ll take Buffalo’s potential over the next few years over the Kraken.

Edited December 4, 2022 by tom webster

[tom webster]

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

Both Vegas and Seattle have had good starts from their inception because the respective organizations made a lot of good decisions. When you make a lot of decisions in the sports business not all of them are going to work out. But overall, there were more plus than minus decisions. I thought that Vegas worked the system like maestros to build a cup contending team right from the start. And the organization has continued to make some big consequential decisions such as for Jack and Stone to continue on with their successful pathway. 

So far two expansion teams under the current system, two early successes although Seattle may be a mirage, time will tell. 
As far as what the Pegulas done, no one can argue things didn’t work out but it’s not like any of their hires, other then letting Patty bring Nolan along, were considered crazy at the time. Largely their impatience did them in but I really would rather focus on the future rather than rehash the past.

[PerreaultForever]

39 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Seattle didn’t take advantage of a lot of the deals that Vegas did but did load up on a lot of second and third line players resulting in their older roster and a more defensively sound line up which has allowed them to withstand their horrible goaltending. Jones and Grubauer are both below .900 save percentage. Other than Burakowski, most of their acquisitions are underwhelming. They hit a homerun getting Beniers and may have lucked out getting Wright although early returns aren’t great. I’ll take Buffalo’s potential over the next few years over the Kraken.

As I said, they took a different path. So far, they are winning so their path seems better regardless of how you or I evaluate different players. They compete harder imo. They focused on character players and building solid 3rd and 4th units. They are a much harder to play against team. 

[tom webster]

32 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

As I said, they took a different path. So far, they are winning so their path seems better regardless of how you or I evaluate different players. They compete harder imo. They focused on character players and building solid 3rd and 4th units. They are a much harder to play against team. 

Time will tell.

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

As I said, they took a different path. So far, they are winning so their path seems better regardless of how you or I evaluate different players. They compete harder imo. They focused on character players and building solid 3rd and 4th units. They are a much harder to play against team. 

Character has almost universally been something Adams has looked to acquire. It's one of the reasons they drafted both Quinn and JJP

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, tom webster said:

So far two expansion teams under the current system, two early successes although Seattle may be a mirage, time will tell. 
As far as what the Pegulas done, no one can argue things didn’t work out but it’s not like any of their hires, other then letting Patty bring Nolan along, were considered crazy at the time. Largely their impatience did them in but I really would rather focus on the future rather than rehash the past.

So would I. But the issue I have isn't so much of the long lost past as it was about recent missed opportunities to get better. I just think that the GM could have done a little more to add depth to the blue line without it impinging on their current rebuilding strategy. A little more depth would have given this team more of a cushion to absorb the inevitable injuries. And let's be clear here, this is a GM issue and not an ownership issue. I don't believe that the owner is being unreasonably intrusive when it comes to hockey decisions. That's not to say that he isn't in constant communication with those running it, but that is as it should be. 

[Quint]

Don't know if this player is "dying" to come to Buffalo or not, apparently the first highly limiting factor of bringing someone new to the team, but Brock Boeser's agent has gotten permission from the Canucks to seek a trade. At the risk of going 1 for 2 ( I was first to advocate acquiring Jost) I say why not? We have some forwards who are either declining, stale or just not working out.

 https://www.nhl.com/player/brock-boeser-8478444

[Marvin]

52 minutes ago, Quint said:

Don't know if this player is "dying" to come to Buffalo or not, apparently the first highly limiting factor of bringing someone new to the team, but Brock Boeser's agent has gotten permission from the Canucks to seek a trade. At the risk of going 1 for 2 ( I was first to advocate acquiring Jost) I say why not? We have some forwards who are either declining, stale or just not working out.

 https://www.nhl.com/player/brock-boeser-8478444

This would signal a full-on rebuild in Vancouver.  What they would want are picks and prospects.  Look at the thread in the trade section on HFBoards.

Update: since there was an update last night, he might be an anchor because of injuries affecting his play.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Marvin

[Buffalonill]

6 hours ago, Quint said:

Don't know if this player is "dying" to come to Buffalo or not, apparently the first highly limiting factor of bringing someone new to the team, but Brock Boeser's agent has gotten permission from the Canucks to seek a trade. At the risk of going 1 for 2 ( I was first to advocate acquiring Jost) I say why not? We have some forwards who are either declining, stale or just not working out.

 https://www.nhl.com/player/brock-boeser-8478444

No no no no.

 

Just another Victor Olofsson